17s - why will they handle badly?

[Mark One]

I've heard this a couple of times now. People with 172/182 going from 16s up to 17s.

I can understand that if the overall diameter is increased then acceleration suffers.

WHY WHY WHY should it ruin handling.
Especially if you use a lower profile tyre to get a similar(ish) overall wheel+tyre profile. Surely the tyre is lower profile, meaning less tyre fold off the rim round corners, so better handling....?
Somebody shoot me down, why is the handling worse.

 

[Henry]

it depends upon the application and i've no idea how Clios are affected but those applications that are affected tend to be so due to number of factors such as unsprung weight increases, lower profile tyres detract from ride quality and bump absorption etc, suspension geometry can be affected, yada yada

i wouldn't have thought they'd necessarily 'ruin' the handling though; guess it depends upon the wheel/tyre combo - ?

 

[Mark One]

ok, i feel a little more enlightened. So perhaps a light wheel and tyre combo may be better. Is anyone on this forum worried about ride unless it gets ridiculous? I know I'm not.

anyone else suggest anything?

 

[beacytan]

i did it mate and could instantly feel the car felt slighty slower accelerating and didnt handle as well. car looked a s**t load better but i wouldnt ever do it again!

ps - mine was on 2003 172, forgot to mention wheels scraped a bit on full lock over ANY small bump too...

 

[Sy]

I had 17's on, apart from the scraping a bit on full lock, I never noticed much diffference. I think it comes down to personal choice and more importantly how you drive. For normal day to day driving I never noticed a thing, as for losing speed etc etc, I had nothing to compare it against as it came with 17's on. I put 16's on and all I really noticed was no scraping on full lock and none going over speed bumps (my car is 60mm lower). That said you get a lot of responses, saying it messes up your handling etc, only suggestion is to try some 17's if possible and base it on your own opinion. I only took mine off because they needed refurbing, I bought the 16's as a temporary measure. I just never found the time to refurb them, then someone offered to buy them and seen as I am now selling my car in the New Year I sold them.

 

[GordonD]

A bigger wheel is heavier. That inevitably has certain effects on ride and handling and performance. Yes, you can spend money on an especially light wheel, but you'd still be better off if you spent that same amount on an especially light smaller wheel.

A bigger wheel means you're probably running a lower profile tyre, ie a tyre with a shorter sidewall, so you'll probably get sharper handling, and it'll probably put more rubber on the road, so you may get more cornering power, and you can definitely fit bigger brakes inside a bigger wheel. That's why racers do it. And because racers do it people who want/value that racer look do it.

But a bigger wheel is heavier meaning poorer ride on rough surfaces, more rotational inertia which might degrade turn-in feel, and slightly slower acceleration.

Its up to you to decide what's important to you.

 

[vomboy 172]

won't a SLIGHTLY bigger profile on your tyres give you better handling?
With slightly more flex on the tyre?

 

[The Seer]

Quite a few mixed opinions here. Thinking about a set of 17" rims myself.

Really would like to try before you buy but that aint gonna happen.Don't wanna buy and be disappointed.

 

[vomboy 172]

i bought 2nd hand off ebay, 376
i felt the same way about you, and thought if i was to sell them on i wouldnt be out of pocket.
but now i have got them on, i wouldnt sell them, in the flesh the car looks awesome, very pleased with them.

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

Never tried one, but I think most people on here are blowing things out of the water.

Not many people use their cars to the absolute limits anyway so most can't even comment on handling.

I would stab a guess that most people complain about 17s because new alloys usually come with crap rubber.

Fit some decent tyres (you can indeed get Exalto Sports in 205/40-17) and I think you might notice a different, whether it's bad or not is up to you.

BTW it's not hard to find a 17 inch rim that's lighter than the standard Clio alloys. OZ UltraLeggeras are a safe bet and look quite good on a Clio.

 

[vomboy 172]

Not many people use their cars to the absolute limits anyway so most can't even comment on handling.

This is what i said on another 17" rim thread......totally agree
If you are going to use the car on a track , then yes i wouldnt go with 17inch rims!
If you are driving your car hard on roads, like on its limits then good luck to you!!
Because the roads arent the place for it nowadays!!

 

[The Seer]

i bought 2nd hand off ebay, 376
i felt the same way about you, and thought if i was to sell them on i wouldnt be out of pocket.
but now i have got them on, i wouldnt sell them, in the flesh the car looks awesome, very pleased with them.

May I ask what tyres you're using?

You'd say hardly any difference between characterstics of the previously used 16" rims to that of the 17's your using now?

 

[Sy]

I think my 17's looked good. Michelin Pilot sport tyres were good too.

 

[vomboy 172]

May I ask what tyres you're using?

You'd say hardly any difference between characterstics of the previously used 16" rims to that of the 17's your using now?

they came with goodyear eagle F1's

not really been anywhere since i fitted them yesterday.

fitted 17's on my old 1.8 16v and that handled like it was on rails though.

 

[Christophe]

i think because you have bigger wheels lower profile tyres are fitted and you feel every little bump in the road. so when you drive quickly on country roads it feels like the car is breaking and so dont go as quick as you worry more when you see dips/potholes etc on roads.

 

[Mark One]

won't a SLIGHTLY bigger profile on your tyres give you better handling?
With slightly more flex on the tyre?

I wouldn't agree. Smaller tyre wall -> less tyre flex -> more direct steering with better response -> more positive turn in.

I can see why heavier is worse, and I wouldn't consider 17s if there was going to be scrubbage! my 205 did that on 1.9gti wheels, not fun.

I don't think many people push to the limits on the roads, but some of us like to tuck it into a nice wide empty roundabout faster than the local fuzz would allow:rasp:. So it'd be a shame to give up any of that glorious 172 handling

 

[Mark One]

skin deep, I like those wheels mate, not liking the pics of UltraLeggeras i've seen

 

[Mark One]

all I really noticed was no scraping on full lock and none going over speed bumps (my car is 60mm lower). .

What size rubber is that? No-one is bothered by full lock scrub, just day to day over bumps and people in the back scrub that takes the piss a bit.

 

[The Seer]

I think my 17's looked good. Michelin Pilot sport tyres were good too.

A nice selection of wheel.

 

[MikeLYR27]

I think you should just do what you want mate.
I personally wouldnt coz i dont like 17s, bit to big imo.
But it depends on what you want from your car, if you want looks then just do it and sacrifice a few bits like acceleration and handling, but to be honest unless you are really picky like me about performance you prob wont notice it.
Or you could put some lightweight 16's on it and slam it and that would look wicked!
Ive always kept my RS's standard tho, i did puy some lightweight 16s on once while i was waitin to get new michelins fitted and that did make a big difference( i thought so).
Its your car tho dude so do whatever makes you happy wiv it.

 

[DougClio16v]

17's make my car look like a giant rollerblade yo.

Worst choice I ever made on my car.. Ever!

(handling has not been effected though, apart from feels better around corners)

 

[diamond geezer]

on my valvers, ive had everything from 15-18's on it and with out doubt, the bigger wheels, in my veiws, made absolutly, bugger all difference. didnt slow them down any and still went like well. granted, none of them had standard suspension, but i could tell any difference, ither on road or track days.

 

[jarfun123]

There is not much difference in the circumference of the wheel between a 205/45/16 and a 205/40/17 tyre. I think its about 0.5%. If you go on the car bibles website it will show you. So acceleration wise the difference is not noticeable and wheels weigh alot less than tyres. For handling wise a 17" wheel is going to have less flex and more rubber on the road. I did a trackday on 195/45/16 and the tyre wall flex was that bad it worn some of the writing off but i did donnigton last sat on my 17s and the car handled alot better. Tyres like rubber bands if you want to go round corners thats what i say!

 

[john.med]

i had 17s on my car when i bought it. For insurance reasons, and because i was getting chav admiration i opted for 16s. Turn in is better now

 

[The Seer]

Hmmm....mixed opinions. Keep em' coming. Gathering as much info as I can.

Thanks for all your replies so far.

Anybody else care to comment/experiance of using 17" rims as opposed to 16"?

 

[Henry]

no one has mentioned the potential cons of stiffer narrower sidewalls yet - eg. bump steer, tramlining etc

 

[The Seer]

no one has mentioned the potential cons of stiffer narrower sidewalls yet - eg. bump steer, tramlining etc

I did wonder about bump steer and tramlining. My 182 Cup tramlines as it is here and there.

 

[john.med]

I think it's generally accepted that the Renault Sport fellas over in Dieppe did a god job with the set up on the Sports handling wise. I think they acheived a fairly reasonable balance with the choice of 16" 45 profile. Apperance wise they suit the car, and in terms of turn in, tramlining etc the results speak for themselves.

A 16 or 15" 50 profile would look awful and the marketing guys would have said no. And I think for a 40 profile you would need a softer suspension setup. Especially driving on the UK's shocking road surfaces.

I'm just guessing tho.

Where's Edde or the other tech gurus when you need them?

 

[Ali]

17's are fine, people moan about stuff that don't understand! I wish i'd got 17's on my old 172 now.

 

[The Seer]

17's are fine, people moan about stuff that don't understand! I wish i'd got 17's on my old 172 now.

....but why then have several specifically said characteristics have changed for the worst when using 17" rims on that's on U.K. roads?

....as well as some saying no noticeable difference like yourself.

Very confusing.

 

[Gaz_]

mine felt better with 15's....

 

[Ali]

17's are fine, people moan about stuff that don't understand! I wish i'd got 17's on my old 172 now.

....but why then have several specifically said characteristics have changed for the worst when using 17" rims on that's on U.K. roads?

....as well as some saying no noticeable difference like yourself.

Very confusing.

Providing the 16's have 205's there's no difference, i've tried both. It's not slower to 60 either! :S People listen too much on here....

 

[Clioman51]

I think these people who say i vastly altered anything are talking aload off rubbish. I put 17's on and it made no noticable difference anywhere. not slower no much better handling. It's a plocebo effect.

 

[ditz]

clio wise ive only driven standard ones and one with 17's on.
the one i drove was the same engine as mine (1.2)
there was a night and day difference between the two, the one with bigger wheels felt incredibly slow felt as if it didnt have the power to turn the wheels. it had a bit of a tramlining effect ie hit a pot hole and it will steer you off in that direction and it didnt seem to self center either

 

[Jesse16v]

I have 17's fitted on my valver with a 60mm drop with rear shocks and front lowering springs, they came with the car but from going from 15's i can actually notice better cornering than my 15', they have low profile tyres and with my suspension setup you can feel pretty much every bump in the road which isnt nice as it throws you and your mates around, i only get arch rubbing on full lock and its not that much. steering feels a bit heavier with 17's, my tracking is a bit out at the moment so going round corners tight i slide a bit.

I am going for mixed balance of look & performance and for look i would reccommend them all the way, as for performance they are also good and you will get a higher top end but a small reduction in accelleration, one thing i will suggest is get a decent suspension setup, some nice coilovers or uprates springs than can handle more bumps (stiffer suspension) lower around 45-50mm and ya laughing

Heres a pic of mine

 

[The Seer]

I have 17's fitted on my valver with a 60mm drop with rear shocks and front lowering springs, they came with the car but from going from 15's i can actually notice better cornering than my 15', they have low profile tyres and with my suspension setup you can feel pretty much every bump in the road which isnt nice as it throws you and your mates around, i only get arch rubbing on full lock and its not that much. steering feels a bit heavier with 17's, my tracking is a bit out at the moment so going round corners tight i slide a bit.

I am going for mixed balance of look & performance and for look i would reccommend them all the way, as for performance they are also good and you will get a higher top end but a small reduction in accelleration, one thing i will suggest is get a decent suspension setup, some nice coilovers or uprates springs than can handle more bumps (stiffer suspension) lower around 45-50mm and ya laughing

Heres a pic of mine

Very nice too.

Yeah coilovers are on the list. I dare say the bad traits of 17's can be rectified via adjustable suspension.

 

[The Seer]

clio wise ive only driven standard ones and one with 17's on.
the one i drove was the same engine as mine (1.2)
there was a night and day difference between the two, the one with bigger wheels felt incredibly slow felt as if it didnt have the power to turn the wheels. it had a bit of a tramlining effect ie hit a pot hole and it will steer you off in that direction and it didnt seem to self center either

...any nasty handling in the bends apart from tramlining?

 

[The Seer]

....but why then have several specifically said characteristics have changed for the worst when using 17" rims on that's on U.K. roads?

....as well as some saying no noticeable difference like yourself.

Very confusing.

Providing the 16's have 205's there's no difference, i've tried both. It's not slower to 60 either! :S People listen too much on here....

Yes the 16's are using oem spec Exalto 205's. I won't notice a difference then in any way whatsoever should I purchase 17's?

 

[maupineda]

Seer:

These is my experience in regards to wheel size. I own one of the 50 Trophy's made for the Mexican market. In Mexico our streets are real crap so Renault brought them with 15" turinis with 195/50 tires. These turini wheels seem to be really light. However, I opted to go for 16's and bought OZ superturismo wheels (The same as the mk2 v6 but in 16") with 205/45 tires which are heavier by 3 kgs each. In terms of feeling the car lost just one bit of its eagerness and felt the same bit slower to throttle inputs as the new package was heavier; however, car feedback was improved as the tire was wider and profile lower, thus less tire flex. Turn in was also better; traction/grip a bit down as the new tires were not as soft as the Michelins it came with (tradewear: 330 VS 180) so the new tires slide earlier but grip better in the wet. In conclusion, I think the 16's are a better package overall as the car was designed with that size in mind (looks and performance), if you really like bigger wheels just be sure they weight the same as the original 16's if you don't want to lose performance just remember though, it does not matter if the wheel is as light or even lighter, being bigger in diameter will cause more momentum and inertia so braking and acceleration will be affected, tough this effect can be small but certainly there will be some loss. But as other say, what the f…k… go for it if that’s what you want!

 

[jarfun123]

I think people have read into this to much aswell as there is no difference in width and rolling circumference between 16s and 17s.