182 Engine Shuts off while driving. Electrical Issue?

[Razmann4k]

Hi, we've got a disappointing problem and any help would be greatly appreciated.
So my father and I finally completed the clutch job and we took it out for our first spin yesterday. The clutch is great now, but... We didn't even make it to the end of the driveway before the car switched off.
It eventually started again but we didn't even make it off our street before it shut off again. The engine just simply dies while moving (even at 60km/h) and the tacho immediately drops to zero even though the car is in gear. The rest of the electrics stay on though. Today we tried cleaning every connection, relay, fuse but no change. The car also now seems to misfire, with loud pops every few seconds, and idles around 600RPM quite roughly. The engine doesn't seem die though when you're not moving, but when it does die it sometimes takes a few tries to start.

Some context and points that could prove useful:

1. We bought the car at the start of Feb, the engine ran great and never shut off, we drove it 40km from the previous owner's house back home without issues apart from the clutch problem.

2. The clutch job took us about a month, and the car sat outside in some pretty rainy weather.

3. The scuttle panel drains were blocked and we found out the hard way when we opened the door about 2 weeks in and spotted the mould and soggy carpet.

4. We took the ECU out and stored it on floor of the passenger footwell (bad idea) but the driver's footwell was the one that was soaked, the passenger one was just damp. We've since cleared the blocked drains.

5. The car has an aftermarket cold air intake, and I'm not sure what exactly that thing behind the headlight is for, but I'm assuming it's part of the OE airbox, there's a vacuum hose running to it.

 

[Matt Cup]

Have you looked at the crank position sensor? Just above the gearbox. Might be dirty or has failed if it’s just turning over but not starting.

 

[Brigsy]

Rpm dropping to zero suggests its losing crank sensor signal.

 

[Razmann4k]

Have you looked at the crank position sensor? Just above the gearbox. Might be dirty or has failed if it’s just turning over but not starting.

Rpm dropping to zero suggests its losing crank sensor signal.

Thanks for the help guys, I just removed it and the connector had a bit of water in it, blew that out and put it back. Runs even worse now😂 might need a new one

Hard to find one for a 172/182 in SA, is the CPS shared with other engines or other Renault's?

 

[Brigsy]

I dont think the cps is anything special, same across clio2 range.

 

[Razmann4k]

I dont think the cps is anything special, same across clio2 range.

The ones I'm seeing have the connector on the left, and mine is on the right, I wonder if those will work?

 

[Matt Cup]

The ones I'm seeing have the connector on the left, and mine is on the right, I wonder if those will work?

Yes they do. I bought one from a local motor factors and the sensor fits and operated as expected. You just need to hope you have enough wire to reach around to plug it in on the other side.

I did end up buying a genuine one with the correct orientation plug from RPD though but kept the other as a spare.

 

[Razmann4k]

I dont think the cps is anything special, same across clio2 range.

Yes they do. I bought one from a local motor factors and the sensor fits and operated as expected. You just need to hope you have enough wire to reach around to plug it in on the other side.

I did end up buying a genuine one with the correct orientation plug from RPD though but kept the other as a spare.

Right, so I got the sensor for a Sandero 2009, and it worked but the car still misfires and switches off. So I think that can rule the TDC sensor out, unless it's the wiring for the sensor.

I ran an OBD scan and this code is new:

A few days ago, before we put the suspension back in but after putting the gearbox in, we started the car and it sounded great, no misfiring or switching off:

And what it sounds like now when we completed the assembly:




Now I'm not 100% certain whether the misfiring and the switching off are related, but I suppose it's likely given they started at the same time.

 

[mumpy]

Maybe some sort of wiring issue, some wires rubbing/got exposed etc.
Can you do resistance/continuity tests? Fuse box all good? Earths ok?

 

[Matt Cup]

Maybe some sort of wiring issue, some wires rubbing/got exposed etc.
Can you do resistance/continuity tests? Fuse box all good? Earths ok?

Yep something must have been disturbed after the box swap. As to what I’m not sure.

 

[Razmann4k]

Maybe some sort of wiring issue, some wires rubbing/got exposed etc.
Can you do resistance/continuity tests? Fuse box all good? Earths ok?

Yep something must have been disturbed after the box swap. As to what I’m not sure.

The video showing it working properly was after the box was put back in, but before the rest of the suspension so I somehow doubt that. However, as for the Earths, I ensured both earth straps are good. I'm honestly out of ideas, the engine ran fine, but after putting in the rest of the suspension and lowering it to the ground suddenly it runs like crap!

As for the fuse box, all of them have been taken out and cleaned, and contact cleaner was sprayed in. Even the white connector was cleaned. The relays under the dash were also cleaned. I can do a continuity test in the morning for the Earths though.

 

[Brigsy]

I would be looking at plugs, leads and injectors. Injector can fail at any time on these.

Also make sure lambda plug has not been disturbed as in the area.

 

[Razmann4k]

I would be looking at plugs, leads and injectors. Injector can fail at any time on these.

Also make sure lambda plug has not been disturbed as in the area.

Great, thanks. Could I also swap the lambdas, as the secondary one doesn't have a bung and is just reading open air at the moment? Also, is it alright to remove the plenum without replacing the gasket afterwards?

I did in fact notice the car is running extremely rich, with a strong fuel smell out the exhaust and the fuel needle has definitely dropped despite only being revved in the yard for a collective 30 mins.

 

[Brigsy]

Running rich suggests a cylinder isnt firing due to excess fuel or lack of spark.

Resistance test the injectors and should be able to see which cylinder is not firing when looking at the plugs.

You should be ok removing inlet and reusing gaskets. I done it several times on my old one.

 

[Razmann4k]

Running rich suggests a cylinder isnt firing due to excess fuel or lack of spark.

Resistance test the injectors and should be able to see which cylinder is not firing when looking at the plugs.

You should be ok removing inlet and reusing gaskets. I done it several times on my old one.

Excellent, thanks! From what I've seen, the injectors when cold should have a resistance of about 14.5 ohms, I'll just check all of them.

 

[ex-Chinese Dave]

Excellent, thanks! From what I've seen, the injectors when cold should have a resistance of about 14.5 ohms, I'll just check all of them.

I saw a video on that the other day. The injectors MUST be totally cold when testing them.

 

[Razmann4k]

I saw a video on that the other day. The injectors MUST be totally cold when testing them.

Yep, will be the first thing I test tomorrow morning. In fact, I'll unplug the ignition coil so it's impossible to start the engine and warm it up.

 

[Razmann4k]

I saw a video on that the other day. The injectors MUST be totally cold when testing them.

Running rich suggests a cylinder isnt firing due to excess fuel or lack of spark.

Resistance test the injectors and should be able to see which cylinder is not firing when looking at the plugs.

You should be ok removing inlet and reusing gaskets. I done it several times on my old one.

Yep something must have been disturbed after the box swap. As to what I’m not sure.

Maybe some sort of wiring issue, some wires rubbing/got exposed etc.
Can you do resistance/continuity tests? Fuse box all good? Earths ok?

So we measured the injectors, all seem healthy at around 14.5 ohms, and the car wasn't started today at all.

However we were thinking that perhaps we flooded the engine when we tried priming the new oil and oil filter, and cranked it for a solid minute or two. When we did get it to start in the video where it sounded good, a lot of smoke came out. We took the main Lambda out now and this is what it looks like:

 

[Razmann4k]

So we measured the injectors, all seem healthy at around 14.5 ohms, and the car wasn't started today at all.

However we were thinking that perhaps we flooded the engine when we tried priming the new oil and oil filter, and cranked it for a solid minute or two. When we did get it to start in the video where it sounded good, a lot of smoke came out. We took the main Lambda out now and this is what it looks like:
View attachment 1735600

Alright, so we swapped the lambdas and the car runs about the same, but we tested the injectors by unplugging them one at a time, Injector 1 (flywheel side) barely makes a difference but Injectors 2, 3 and 4 all make the car want to die horribly when unplugged.

I can start the car and it sounds exactly the same whether Injector 1 is connected or disconnected.

 

[Mr Trailer Man]

Swap injector 1 with another.

That will tell you if it's the injector at fault or a wiring issue.

Most likely just a dodgy injector though.

 

[Razmann4k]

Swap injector 1 with another.

That will tell you if it's the injector at fault or a wiring issue.

Most likely just a dodgy injector though.

We just took the plenum off to check the plugs, and there was quite a lot of water in the plug holes for 1 and 2, also noticed the VVT solenoid is weeping oil.

The plugs themselves seem ok, but Cylinder 2 is a PFR5E and all the others say 6E. Going to check compression and plug gaps while they're out.

 

[Razmann4k]

Swap injector 1 with another.

That will tell you if it's the injector at fault or a wiring issue.

Most likely just a dodgy injector though.

Will do, thanks 👍🏻

 

[Mr Trailer Man]

We just took the plenum off to check the plugs, and there was quite a lot of water in the plug holes for 1 and 2, also noticed the VVT solenoid is weeping oil.

The plugs themselves seem ok, but Cylinder 2 is a PFR5E and all the others say 6E. Going to check compression and plug gaps while they're out.

Swap it for a 6E.

Where is all the water coming from, you seem to have had it in everything so far 😂

I believe the plug gaps are 1mm, hence the in the name PFR6E-10 (1.0mm)

 

[Razmann4k]

Swap it for a 6E.

Where is all the water coming from, you seem to have had it in everything so far 😂

I believe the plug gaps are 1mm, hence the in the name PFR6E-10 (1.0mm)

I saw a video on that the other day. The injectors MUST be totally cold when testing them.

Running rich suggests a cylinder isnt firing due to excess fuel or lack of spark.

Resistance test the injectors and should be able to see which cylinder is not firing when looking at the plugs.

You should be ok removing inlet and reusing gaskets. I done it several times on my old one.

Maybe some sort of wiring issue, some wires rubbing/got exposed etc.
Can you do resistance/continuity tests? Fuse box all good? Earths ok?

I appreciate everyone's help so far!

Plugs seemed ok, gapped them to 1mm, cleaned the water off and put them back. For the time being, I'll keep the 5E in but change it once the car has passed its South African equivalent of MOT.

Cleaned the plenum with carb cleaner as it was full of black muck. Then reassembled everything but DID NOT lower it to the ground.

Started it up, no more misfire! Car runs and sounds great again! Even put it in gear and revved it, reverse gear, everything was great. Let it idle for several minutes with no issues.


Lowered it to the ground, started it, still sounded great, put it in gear to leave the driveway, made it about 20 metres and it cut out again!🤬🤬🤬

It just seems the moment you try and move it it doesn't like that and cuts out. To rule out the gearbox being the issue, I left the car in neutral, pulled down the handbrake and started it. Pushing it to the end of my driveway it cut out again!

It may be an Earth issue, I'll check those again, but failing that I have no clue.

 

[Mr Trailer Man]

Take the earth strap off and clean the ends and the area it bolts to.

To confirm it's an earth issue, run a jump lead from battery negative to the engine block (engine lifting eye is a good one).

 

[Razmann4k]

Take the earth strap off and clean the ends and the area it bolts to.

To confirm it's an earth issue, run a jump lead from battery negative to the engine block (engine lifting eye is a good one).

We did that now with no effect, here's the earth strap we made:

Will send video of it cutting out while on the move now...

 

[Mr Trailer Man]

We did that now with no effect, here's the earth strap we made:
View attachment 1735635

Will send video of it cutting out while on the move now...

Have you got the earth strap on the gearbox?

 

[Razmann4k]

The problem seems to be sorted, on the freeway now. We cleaned the brake and clutch switch under the dash and it stopped cutting out!

 

[Mr Trailer Man]

Odd, never seen that before 😅

 

[Razmann4k]

Odd, never seen that before 😅

Very odd indeed, but we're sure it's that because everything else we tried didn't help the cutting out issue, although it did help the car run way better.

The OBD scan even mentioned the brake switch but we assumed all that would do is prevent the cruise control and other less important stuff from working.

Thanks for everyone's help, and tomorrow I'm finally going to vaccum the carpets out, the leak has already been fixed.

 

[Mr Trailer Man]

Very odd indeed, but we're sure it's that because everything else we tried didn't help the cutting out issue, although it did help the car run way better.

The OBD scan even mentioned the brake switch but we assumed all that would do is prevent the cruise control and other less important stuff from working.

Thanks for everyone's help, and tomorrow I'm finally going to vaccum the carpets out, the leak has already been fixed.

If it's had water in from blocked scuttle drains, you'll want to remove the carpet and foam underneath and let it fully dry out.

 

[Razmann4k]

If it's had water in from blocked scuttle drains, you'll want to remove the carpet and foam underneath and let it fully dry out.

So I have to remove the seats, correct?

 

[Razmann4k]

If it's had water in from blocked scuttle drains, you'll want to remove the carpet and foam underneath and let it fully dry out.

Also, that reminds me, the drive was relatively smooth, but the brakes weren't great, we just bled them and the discs and pads have decent life left to them. I can feel the ABS kicking in even when driving slowly and barely braking.

 

[Mr Trailer Man]

So I have to remove the seats, correct?

Yeah they bolt in from underneath.

The outside two nuts are under rubber caps and the inside ones are just next to the exhaust heat shield. 13mm deep socket.

Handbrake surround off and centre console, pretty easy to figure out how to remove them.

For the centre console, once you have the sides unclipped, lift the ashtray out and reach inside and pop the gearstick gaitor out. Look down inside and you'll see a peg that locates the console in place. Push that down and pull the whole thing backwards towards the handbrake and it'll pop out.

 

[Mr Trailer Man]

Also, that reminds me, the drive was relatively smooth, but the brakes weren't great, we just bled them and the discs and pads have decent life left to them. I can feel the ABS kicking in even when driving slowly and barely braking.

That could be down to corroded abs rings on the driveshafts or rear discs.

Make sure they're 44 tooth rings as well.

 

[Razmann4k]

That could be down to corroded abs rings on the driveshafts or rear discs.

Make sure they're 44 tooth rings as well.

Oh crap, I was hoping that wasn't going to be a problem, we just replaced the outer CVs and the rings on the new ones are narrower, but also 44 teeth. Now I wish we had just swapped over the rings first💀

 

[Razmann4k]

Yeah they bolt in from underneath.

The outside two nuts are under rubber caps and the inside ones are just next to the exhaust heat shield. 13mm deep socket.

Handbrake surround off and centre console, pretty easy to figure out how to remove them.

For the centre console, once you have the sides unclipped, lift the ashtray out and reach inside and pop the gearstick gaitor out. Look down inside and you'll see a peg that locates the console in place. Push that down and pull the whole thing backwards towards the handbrake and it'll pop out.

Thanks a ton, will have a look at that in the morning!

 

[Mr Trailer Man]

Oh crap, I was hoping that wasn't going to be a problem, we just replaced the outer CVs and the rings on the new ones are narrower, but also 44 teeth. Now I wish we had just swapped over the rings first💀

Can use the narrow rings, you just have to have them sat further out on the CV so that the sensor can pick them up.

Scan tool that can read each wheel speed would be handy.

 

[Razmann4k]

Can use the narrow rings, you just have to have them sat further out on the CV so that the sensor can pick them up.

Scan tool that can read each wheel speed would be handy.

So I can just knock them further back/forward with a flathead and a hammer? If so, that would be great😅 I have an OBD that can read live data, although I'm not sure how to use that function properly, will have to look it up. Thanks again!

 

[Mr Trailer Man]

So I can just knock them further back/forward with a flathead and a hammer? If so, that would be great😅 I have an OBD that can read live data, although I'm not sure how to use that function properly, will have to look it up. Thanks again!

Should be able to yeah.

If they're all the way against the inside then just bring them out to the middle.

Actually might want to check your brake pedal sensor is adjusted properly too. Can't remember if that can cause the same symptoms. Brake lights should be coming on as soon as you touch the pedal.