197 Cams in a ph1 172

[Chip-mk1]

Laine you need to drive it to see how much better it feels not dieing off after 6500rpm like they normally do in particular.
Its a modest gain for very little money and has no downside to it, essentially the same as fitting a set of 428 cams but at a tenth of the price.
As for torque figures. Millerin did 165 on a standard engine and a lot of people do 145 so it's pointless saying what the exact figure should be, you just have to look at each engine and see if it's better after and this clearly is, especially at the very top end.

 

[bozothenutter]

Following this closely......

 

[Fitch13]

I see you done this on a ph1 172, would this also work on a ph2?

 

[Chip-mk1]

I see you done this on a ph1 172, would this also work on a ph2?

Yes, Mike has already timed a set up on my mrs daily driver 197 and they seem to work very well although got no rolling road figures yet.


This one that I have already mentioned in this thread is a phase 2 as you can see from the electronic throttle etc:

 

[Fitch13]

That's brilliant thanks mate, clearly didn't read through it properly haha! Something that I am definatly going to look into if I can find a set of 197 cams.

 

[aucky]

This is interesting!

I was considering getting re-remapped at MWM in a few months anyway

 

[Pedro19]

Difference between 438's and 197 cams, apart from price?

 

[ben_r1]

Keeping in mind a set of billet catcams are superior in build and quality to a set of 197 OEM cams, the lobes are literally pressed onto a smooth shaft lol.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Difference between 438's and 197 cams, apart from price?

438 will give more power.
197 cams are more comparable to 428 cams really.

Think of 197 cams as half the gain of 438 for a tenth of the cost.

 

[Michael Woodford MST]

Keeping in mind a set of billet catcams are superior in build and quality to a set of 197 OEM cams, the lobes are literally pressed onto a smooth shaft lol.

I wouldn't say better quality built! I know of at least 2 sets that were not machined properly meaning the dephaser wouldn't fit!

 

[bozothenutter]

can these results be translated to a 182 with RS2?

 

[Chip-mk1]

can these results be translated to a 182 with RS2?

Yes there is no difference between a phase 2 172 and a 182 engine in those terms. Its only minor stuff like the manifold thats difference.

 

[bozothenutter]

If I wanted to do the mod here in holland....how would I set the timing?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Trial and error mate, same way people over here have to.

 

[bozothenutter]

ok, so there is no set setting as in xxx degrees more or less that standard?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Not in the public domain as an accepted figure mate no.

 

[neil a]

Mike did you ever get a power run with these after more mapping ? You have PM
Im trying to decide whether to fit mine and pay for the time on the rollers to mess with the timing , or bite the bullet and buy uprated cams.

 

[Michael Woodford MST]

No Neil I didn't.

I fitted a Stone Automotive RS2 inlet (witch works amazingly with the cams. One of the best mods I've done) so I can map it all together.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Neil a, have you any idea how much time it takes to alter the cam timing on one of these engines?

Would be a real pain to try and do in a rolling road session.

 

[Tunst]

Im thinking about some 197 cams but the above puts me off...

 

[Westyfield2]

I fitted a Stone Automotive RS2 inlet (witch works amazingly with the cams. One of the best mods I've done) so I can map it all together.

I thought I read that the RS2 only worked well with the stock 1*2 cams, and that any other cams it was rubbish with?

 

[neil a]

Yes chip thats my point would have to be done by trial and error so could easily add up to more than the cost of proper cams, if i wasnt a 8 hour drive away I would just pay Mike to fit and time them.
I have offered to rent or buy a copy of Mikes timing tool as I thought it may be interesting to see how they would work with bodies, but starting to think I might just chuck them back on ebay.

 

[Michael Woodford MST]

I thought I read that the RS2 only worked well with the stock 1*2 cams, and that any other cams it was rubbish with?

Total rubbish! This has been proved many times! I do remember many people moaning that it wasn't possible, but believe me it is. It just takes a small amount of time doing some fine tuning to get it to work correctly.

A case where some knowledge is worse than none at all! You can easily get the RS2 to work on cams.

 

[yeecup]

Not the rs2 and cams debate again

 

[Michael Woodford MST]

Not the rs2 and cams debate again

In my eyes mate there is no debate to have. James has an Rs2 with cams and so have me and chip and it works fine.

As long as you time them in correctly I can't see why there's an issue.

 

[Westyfield2]

Total rubbish! This has been proved many times! I do remember many people moaning that it wasn't possible, but believe me it is. It just takes a small amount of time doing some fine tuning to get it to work correctly.

A case where some knowledge is worse than none at all! You can easily get the RS2 to work on cams.

That's good news!

 

[Chip-mk1]

In my eyes mate there is no debate to have. James has an Rs2 with cams and so have me and chip and it works fine.

As long as you time them in correctly I can't see why there's an issue.

I think cause a couple of people tried and had issues it's just become know as something that doesn't work.

And in fairness you will of course never attain the perfectly flat torque curve the rs2 manages on standard cams, but as we both know you can still have a car that drives very well

 

[Chip-mk1]

Here is my car on cams and rs2, seems to work pretty well to me!

If I pick up a guitar, it doesnt work, the sounds that come out are terrible, and I would instantly proclaim it faulty, because I cant play the guitar, if Mike from MWM picked one up, he would make the same diagnosis, that the guitar simply doesnt work to make decent music.

I guess its the same with the cams and the RS2, give them to a few people who dont know what they are doing, and they'll all say they dont work, give them to someone who does though, and they work fine.

 

[barnesautos]

Here is my car on cams and rs2, seems to work pretty well to me!

If I pick up a guitar, it doesnt work, the sounds that come out are terrible, and I would instantly proclaim it faulty, because I cant play the guitar, if Mike from MWM picked one up, he would make the same diagnosis, that the guitar simply doesnt work to make decent music.

I guess its the same with the cams and the RS2, give them to a few people who dont know what they are doing, and they'll all say they dont work, give them to someone who does though, and they work fine.

Spot on Chip

 

[eto tako]

looks like there is no debate for 2y