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197 clarkson review



  Turbo LY R27
but Lee, we don't have to have driven the cup to know it feels slow for a car of its stats.

ALso, we don't have to have driven it to know that a car in this day and age should come with aircon, i wonder how many they will sell without the aircon option!

I don't think anyone doubts its cornering ability, and clarkson points that out too, but things like its performance and spec are all too familiar to people that have driven a 197.

haha, that just highlights exactly what I said, because you're wrong. It doesn't feel slow and it still has a decent kick at 5k rpm. In fact the shift from 2nd to 3rd gear is fantastic, the 182 always used to feel like the gears were a little to largely spaced but the Cup just takes off. The Megane on the other hand does feel slow with it's lazy power delivery and muted exhaust note.

And again, I'm not defending the Cup or my decision to swap the Trophy for it, I'm just pointing out what a load of b****cks people post on here.

I might go onto the Ferrari owners forum and start telling them what's wrong with an F430, a car I've never driven, but I'm sure from the stats I've read it's quite noisy and not nice to drive in traffic. ;)


+1 mate lol!:lolup:

There are some muppets.
 

Lee

  BMW M2C
Those little white tubs of lard are growing on me. Black wheels, complete with spoiler? Definitely.

A bit like a song you hate when you first hear it...... and then it grows on you. ;)

You mean big tubs, it's massive compared to the 182. lol
 
  Civic Vtec y0
Having never drove the 197 I cannot comment on how good his article is about the car. All I can say is that it seems to be, as mentioned, him just having a rant then at the end going..oh aye the Clio...yea its not great...Grrr

Great entertainment tho
 
  Trophy #267
No-one can take JC's comments as gospel imho as they are too engineered for a reaciot and to emphasise any point whether good or bad - im sure he know his stuff tho and 90% of his sentiments are right if not 100% balanced.

I dont get why people harp on about old car Vs new car.
Too many things dictate why new cars are different like crumple zones, airbags which make cars heavier but safer (what would you rather have a crash in ?)
as far as value for money the r27 is superb and has been voted best track car by several magazines but how many are acutally tracked ? 50% if that.

No1 doubts that the new Renault range is indeed heavier than its predesessors but altho much better built & safer.
Im sure an old 205 gti or mk1 golf is a much more rewarding drive but also a more uncormforatble and unhealthy place to be in, therefore we sacrifice such things in a new car.
remember that next time you go shopping in yours !
 

LiquidRich

ClioSport Club Member
  LY R27
Why do so many of you with 1*2's have to go on about how cr*p 197's are? are you jelous you cant afford one or is that its just better than the car you own? And I would imagine most of the people having a go have never driven a 197.

I love our R27, I also love our 182FF, they are great cars. But take it from someone that has got out of one and straight into the other (several times) the 197 is a far better car.
 
  182
Why do so many of you with 1*2's have to go on about how cr*p 197's are? are you jelous you cant afford one or is that its just better than the car you own? And I would imagine most of the people having a go have never driven a 197.

I love our R27, I also love our 182FF, they are great cars. But take it from someone that has got out of one and straight into the other (several times) the 197 is a far better car.

Disagree, ive drove both twice and i prefered the 182. It seemed more fun to drive imo..
 

Lee

  BMW M2C
Why do so many of you with 1*2's have to go on about how cr*p 197's are? are you jelous you cant afford one or is that its just better than the car you own? And I would imagine most of the people having a go have never driven a 197.

I love our R27, I also love our 182FF, they are great cars. But take it from someone that has got out of one and straight into the other (several times) the 197 is a far better car.

Disagree, ive drove both twice and i prefered the 182. It seemed more fun to drive imo..

Then to you the 182 is the better car as it fullfills what you want from a car more than a 197.

When someone says something is better they could be refering to so many different areas. The 197 is better built, it has a better interior, it has far better brakes. All those things are fact. Saying it handles better depends on what you consider to be a good handling car.

I was thinking about this earlier in relation to the Nissan GTR. It's big, heavy and the press say it's not as much fun as a 911 but is more capable, but none of those things stop it being a fantastic all round package. For me the 197 is very similar. It's put on weight and has lost some of the fiz of the 182 but for me personally it's a far better package.

After the 172, 182 and Trophy I am more than happy with the Cup. In fact I've never been so happy with a new car, I don't think I felt this way about the Trophy when I collected that.
 
  FN2 Type R +MK6 Golf
I think your car is a good progression lee.It will also be more rewarding as you will have to drive it harder to see where the extra money has been spent.I think the 182 was an easier car to drive fast
 

Lee

  BMW M2C
I think your car is a good progression lee.It will also be more rewarding as you will have to drive it harder to see where the extra money has been spent.I think the 182 was an easier car to drive fast

That's spot on Ian. I took my mate out to show him how it went at the weekend. I got up to silly speeds without even trying but without the excitment and drama I'd get in the Trophy at those speeds. It's certainly a more mature car. It sort of reminds me a little of the previous model CTR.
 
I was thinking about this earlier in relation to the Nissan GTR. It's big, heavy and the press say it's not as much fun as a 911 but is more capable, but none of those things stop it being a fantastic all round package. For me the 197 is very similar. It's put on weight and has lost some of the fiz of the 182 but for me personally it's a far better package.

197 GTR for the win? lol

The 197 is a grown up version of the 182 in my eyes. I drove a 197 round brands hatch and the only thing that let it down was the steering, which Renault fixed for the Cup... so in theory even though I havent driven a cup it should be spot on!
 

Lee

  BMW M2C
I was thinking about this earlier in relation to the Nissan GTR. It's big, heavy and the press say it's not as much fun as a 911 but is more capable, but none of those things stop it being a fantastic all round package. For me the 197 is very similar. It's put on weight and has lost some of the fiz of the 182 but for me personally it's a far better package.

197 GTR for the win? lol

197 Cup, Trophy R28, GTR, Lux Alonso edition FTW.
 
  White clique
it may be like pushing a piano up a hill in his opinion - but thats what happens when you stick a 10 foot giant weighing 50 stone in the car.

I still like Clarkson though.
 
  1998 BMW e46 323i
Why do so many of you with 1*2's have to go on about how cr*p 197's are? are you jelous you cant afford one or is that its just better than the car you own? And I would imagine most of the people having a go have never driven a 197.

I love our R27, I also love our 182FF, they are great cars. But take it from someone that has got out of one and straight into the other (several times) the 197 is a far better car.

No one said they were crap mate,.. I see the present generation of cars like 3g phones; they're better equipped, and more capable but also bigger and heavier.

I love my gadgets, but comparing my n95 to my old Nokia 8210 back in the day, the 8210 was immense. Had a wow factor. I've not driven the new RS Clio, but I've heard how the gearing means you'll still be screeming down the m'way, even with 6 speeds, and how heavy it is thus thirsty. Yeah it's better built, more spacious and as quick, but has lost some of the wow factor.

The 1*2s were stealthy, women at work and friends still mock me for having a girl's car, which is part of the charm IMO. It's a 2L clio for God's sake, that's too cool for school. Again, only my opinion, but as nice as the new RS Clio is, it does look faster than it is, it shouts out about it's speed, especially the Cup with that silly spoiler. And for me, that's not as fun.

I wouldn't say no to one, but if spending that much money would spend it on something else.
 

Lee

  BMW M2C

Don't worry, it was just a dig at DK. ;)

Although they do lose the fun factor of a high reving N/A engine for me. I was forever finding myself hitting the limiter in the Megane. Because the power delivery is very smooth and linear it doesn't feel as fast as it is. Same with the 197 when compared to a 182. I'm sure a Renault 5 GTT would feel like a rocket ship these days, even though on paper it's not as quick.

Again though the engine thing is personal preference.
 
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dk

  911 GTS Cab
You're just jealous you've blown all your cash on a car on HP and can't afford a house. ;)
i'll let you have the looks department, i've always said, if they put the megane engine in the clio i would have gone down that route, i just love the engine in the megane, its special.

I prefer the look of the clio though, especially the R27, love that.

RE: house, watch this space;)
 

dk

  911 GTS Cab
PMSL, errm indeed.

Don't worry, it was just a dig at DK. ;)

Although they do lose the fun factor of a high reving N/A engine for me. I was forever finding myself hitting the limiter in the Megane. Because the power delivery is very smooth and linear it doesn't feel as fast as it is. Same with the 197 when compared to a 182. I'm sure a Renault 5 GTT would feel like a rocket ship these days, even though on paper it's not as quick.

Again though the engine thing is personal preference.
i know what you mean with the limiter, it took me a while to get used to it but now I am, and I still get a kick, its just a lot lower down now, after driving a clio for so long i had to get used to the turbo and lower limiter, but its not that much lower i've now noticed, it is a different drive and coming straight form a clio it will seem very wierd, it was for me, but like anything you get used to it after a while.
 
  FF 172
Its amazing how defensive everyone gets over it just because its a renault :S

Why cant clarkson disagree with some die hard fans on a renault forum? Its too slow, fact, thats what he says....live with it?

For me it`s not that, i think he is correct on some occasions like when he slated the toyota corolla but i think all his ford this and ford that chat seems a little "bought"
I think he is on occasions paid to like certain cars and he (as anyone would) duly obliges.
no i have never driven a 197 but i would not let clarkson put me off ....anyway he drives an slk, fookin poof!
 
  cock mobile.
PMSL, errm indeed.

Don't worry, it was just a dig at DK. ;)

Although they do lose the fun factor of a high reving N/A engine for me. I was forever finding myself hitting the limiter in the Megane.

No I know what you mean, I'm sure you would easily loose count if you tried to count how many times someone has said, should have put the 225 engine in the 197, or should have turbo'd it etc.

That's not the point of the 197 though, it suits the car having an N/A imo, would not be as fun without it.

On the Meg; you get use to changing quicker, you have to lol, I was use to revving past 9k!!
 
  Tangoed Works
Agree with previous comments, the 197 looks faster than it is, but R27 in black with xenons is pure sex! Each to their own, for me personally its not worth the extra cash.

Whatever you have just enjoy it.
 
  Black Gold with cup packs
Recently, a mother of three appeared in court charged with “knowingly causing the deposit of controlled waste on land which did not have a waste management licence”.
So what do you suppose she’d done? Emptied a sack of polonium into a school playground? Urinated in Alistair Darling’s finger bowl?
Secreted 6,000 burning tyres in Bourton-on-the-Water? Nope. The “controlled waste” was an apple core that she had allegedly tossed out of her car window.
Shortly afterwards, two young men appeared in another court, accused of “interfering with a dolphin”. It turns out they’d been hitching a ride on it, in much the same way that tourists do on exotic holidays throughout the world. Then, the following day, the government announced that from now on Gordon Brown would be listening to every single telephone call you make.
Small wonder the Archbishop of Canterbury announced, just 24 hours later, that he wants sharia law in Britain. He was mocked, of course, but come on: Muslimism lets you throw apple cores onto the grass verge and swim with the dolphins and make telephone calls without having a Scottish man grunting and moaning in the background. Plus, we’d have the added benefit of being able to dismember shoplifters.
Also, though I have only a scant acquaintance with the Koran, I’m fairly certain it contains no call for motorists to be fleeced, hounded, mocked and, worst of all, held up on purpose by a swarm of power-crazed traffic wombles.
No one seems to have noticed this sinister new development. But think. In the olden days, when policemen had to have two O-levels, a moustache and a burning desire to join the freemasons, you never really heard of a motorway being closed.
Then, however, the state introduced a new breed of Diet One-Cal policeman called highway officers. We were told they’d race to the scene of an incident and clear up the mess as quickly as possible, thus allowing the real police to concentrate on more important things, like filling in forms and arresting people for interfering with dolphins.
It sounded a brilliant idea but, sadly, these new highwaymen have plainly been told that the most important thing, when attending the scene of a crash, is their own safety. Which means that their first reaction, always, no matter how trivial the accident, is to close the road.
Just listen to the Radio 2 traffic reports. One day last week the M40, the M5, the A34 and the M4 were all shut. Single-handedly, these mollycoddled imbeciles were bringing the whole country to a standstill.
That night, it got worse. A small hatchback had broken down in the middle lane of the A40, going into London. Now, in the not too distant past, other motorists would have got out of their cars and pushed the blockage to the side of the road. Not any more. Now, the traffic wombles come and cone off two lanes. And then they sit in their big 4x4, eating Mars bars, until the government-approved, safety-qualified removal-truck driver arrives.
When my wife crawled past at 6.30, they were just sitting there. When I drove past an hour later, having been stuck in a five-mile queue, they were still sitting there, and I’m afraid that, for the first time in 12 years, I lost my temper. They say a Dutch bargee can swear for two minutes without repetition or hesitation. I beat that easily.
I’d had enough. I’d had enough of people being charged for throwing apples out of their car windows, and speed cameras, and bus lanes, and those villages that have plant pots in the middle of the road. I’d had enough of bendy buses and the congestion charge, and sanctimonious beardies in Toyota Priuses getting away with it. I’d had enough of petrol at £1 a litre, and idiots saying that if we build more roads, people will only end up using them. I’d had enough of exhaust emission tables, and Al Gore and being asked to let the bus go first. I’d had enough of mobile CCTV cameras and Gordon Brown’s smile and photographs of polar bears on icebergs. And I took it all out on those fat, power-crazed wombles who’d shut two lanes of one of the busiest roads in the world because they were too obsessed with health and safety to get off their fat arses and push a broken-down hatchback out of the way.

What was the f**king point in all that!
And may I point out, this is a guy who lives in the world of Gallardos, 599's, 911 turbos, nissan GTR's, Audi R8's ect. We live in the real world, of course he's going to want it to be faster, look what the t**t is used to driving.
 
  Black Gold with cup packs
I agree it could be quicker, but then i'd agree that i'm only 23 and it would probably have a drastic effect on my insurance premium. I love this car for my age, I would have had a white R26 but I am no longer willing to pay over a grand for insurance due to home and child commitments, so for someone like me who wants the thrills of a great hot hatch, but without the extreme insurance rates, the 197 cup is superb.
Basically if you want a faster car though, buy the megane, but I feel you can have just as much fun in the clio
 
  FN2 Type R +MK6 Golf
Our perceptions of the best car we can afford doesnt add up to much in the real world tbh
 
Just because people drive Gallardo's doesnt mean they can't appreciate hot hatches. Look at the panda 100hp which made Evo's fast fleet and was highly rated by most motoring journalists. A car such as the 197 should be all about fun but unfortunatley it falls off the mark. Still a good car but not a classic.
 

dk

  911 GTS Cab
I agree it could be quicker, but then i'd agree that i'm only 23 and it would probably have a drastic effect on my insurance premium. I love this car for my age, I would have had a white R26 but I am no longer willing to pay over a grand for insurance due to home and child commitments, so for someone like me who wants the thrills of a great hot hatch, but without the extreme insurance rates, the 197 cup is superb.
Basically if you want a faster car though, buy the megane, but I feel you can have just as much fun in the clio
when i moved from 182 to r26 it cost me £10 more in insurance, so it can't be THAT much more expensive for a 23yr old, its only 1 group higher i think.
 
  Mark 1 Clio V6
Yes faster car Megane, but it's not that much faster if a lot of corners are thrown at it (as shown in a recent track test where the R27 was only a tenth of a second or so slower).
I also expect it's not as much fun as the 197.

The main downfall of the R26 is the way it looks IMO.
I bought a 225 when they first came out and liked it (except for the rear), but that was over 3 years ago. Age has not been kind on it, but that's what happens when you have a futuristic and innovative design - it ages very quickly.

I have to look at my car every day. If I didn't, I would probably consider the Megane again.
 
  Arctic 182FF + Escort Van
Clarkson is a legend. And lets be honest if it isnt an aston martin he wont like it :rasp:
 
I agree with Clarkson to some extent, im not saying the 197 is a bad car though.
I just think its trying to hard to be something it isn't. In my eyes its not a hot hatch. Its too mature, its too heavy and its got too much equipment. Im not going to say its too slow as speed has got nothing to do with a hot hatch. Infact I would say its just as quick as a 1*2 its all the sound deadening and that quality interior that numbs it.
The new Civic Type R is the same. They are not designed to appeal to enthusiasts and beardies they don't have the cash and there aren't enough of them. The 197/CTR is designed to appeal to young professionals, the playstation/ ipod generation who want decent build quality and gadgets over a 0.5 second lap time gain.
The closest thing to a hot hatch in my eyes on the market at the moment is the Panda 100hp.
 
  Tangoed Works
The 197/CTR is designed to appeal to young professionals, the playstation/ ipod generation who want decent build quality and gadgets over a 0.5 second lap time gain.
QUOTE]

nail on head mate. plus they have the cash to purchase the cars.
 
  Mk1 Eunos Roadster
Panda 100hp or the Swift Sport. I prefer the Swift tbh cos it's got a bit more go, it's not so tall and the interior is so so much nicer. If I needed something cheaper to insure/run I'd definitely consider an 06 plate one.
 

dk

  911 GTS Cab
Yes faster car Megane, but it's not that much faster if a lot of corners are thrown at it (as shown in a recent track test where the R27 was only a tenth of a second or so slower).
I also expect it's not as much fun as the 197.

The main downfall of the R26 is the way it looks IMO.
I bought a 225 when they first came out and liked it (except for the rear), but that was over 3 years ago. Age has not been kind on it, but that's what happens when you have a futuristic and innovative design - it ages very quickly.

I have to look at my car every day. If I didn't, I would probably consider the Megane again.
quite funny, although i completely disagree (obviously), the shape has not aged, its a great looking car!

As for not much faster than a 197, depends on the track, short tight and twisty maybe, but a long sweeping track such as spa shows how much advantage it has, oh and lets not compare an original 225 to the R26, totally different kettle of fish, the facelift also helps to make it look better IMO.
 

dk

  911 GTS Cab
I agree with Clarkson to some extent, im not saying the 197 is a bad car though.
I just think its trying to hard to be something it isn't. In my eyes its not a hot hatch. Its too mature, its too heavy and its got too much equipment. Im not going to say its too slow as speed has got nothing to do with a hot hatch. Infact I would say its just as quick as a 1*2 its all the sound deadening and that quality interior that numbs it.
The new Civic Type R is the same. They are not designed to appeal to enthusiasts and beardies they don't have the cash and there aren't enough of them. The 197/CTR is designed to appeal to young professionals, the playstation/ ipod generation who want decent build quality and gadgets over a 0.5 second lap time gain.
The closest thing to a hot hatch in my eyes on the market at the moment is the Panda 100hp.
i really can't believe you think the panda is the closest thing to a hot hatch, thats ridiculous, how can something with 100hp be a hot hatch? warm hatch maybe.

there are loads of hot hatches at the moment that are worthy, just because they have got safer, doesn't mean they aren't as much fun, the R27 clio has amazing cornering capabilities, and its not boring to drive, the corsa VXR, again exciting, and then the R26, astra vxr, and focus st, all great hot hatches.

Lets put it this way, i'd rather have a crash in a 5* car than one that with disintegrate at my time of need!
 
  Mk1 Eunos Roadster
i really can't believe you think the panda is the closest thing to a hot hatch, thats ridiculous, how can something with 100hp be a hot hatch? warm hatch maybe.

there are loads of hot hatches at the moment that are worthy, just because they have got safer, doesn't mean they aren't as much fun, the R27 clio has amazing cornering capabilities, and its not boring to drive, the corsa VXR, again exciting, and then the R26, astra vxr, and focus st, all great hot hatches.


Nah, I disagree. All of those you've mentioned either fall short on driving dynamics OR are just too sedate. What I think the other chap is getting at is that none of the hatches you list really feel raw and exciting in the same way the great hot hatches did (a la 205 gti, 182 Trophy, 306 GTi-6 for example). They're excellent and most certainly quick cars, but they've kind of lost the fizziness that hot hatches are supposed to be about. Particularly the R26 and Focus ST are cars you move to when you fancy something just as fast but less manic than a hot hatch. Great cars, but not proper hot hatches. They don't make em like they used to lol :rasp:
 
i really can't believe you think the panda is the closest thing to a hot hatch, thats ridiculous, how can something with 100hp be a hot hatch? warm hatch maybe.

Pug 205 Gti not a hot hatch then?
VW Golf Mk1 GTi?
Pug 106 gti?

It depends what you define as a hot hatch really, power is absolutely irrelevant.

there are loads of hot hatches at the moment that are worthy, just because they have got safer, doesn't mean they aren't as much fun, the R27 clio has amazing cornering capabilities, and its not boring to drive, the corsa VXR, again exciting, and then the R26, astra vxr, and focus st, all great hot hatches.

Lets put it this way, i'd rather have a crash in a 5* car than one that with disintegrate at my time of need!

I don't think safety has anything to do with it, a hot hatch to me should be small and light, cheap to run, and provide the maximum fun/ £.
All that matters is a decent chassis, direct steering and a willing engine.
The new breed of hot hatches have far to many non necessities and are also far too big. I will admit the R26 is the most focused out of the ones you list.
 

dk

  911 GTS Cab
i really can't believe you think the panda is the closest thing to a hot hatch, thats ridiculous, how can something with 100hp be a hot hatch? warm hatch maybe.

there are loads of hot hatches at the moment that are worthy, just because they have got safer, doesn't mean they aren't as much fun, the R27 clio has amazing cornering capabilities, and its not boring to drive, the corsa VXR, again exciting, and then the R26, astra vxr, and focus st, all great hot hatches.


Nah, I disagree. All of those you've mentioned either fall short on driving dynamics OR are just too sedate. What I think the other chap is getting at is that none of the hatches you list really feel raw and exciting in the same way the great hot hatches did (a la 205 gti, 182 Trophy, 306 GTi-6 for example). They're excellent and most certainly quick cars, but they've kind of lost the fizziness that hot hatches are supposed to be about. Particularly the R26 and Focus ST are cars you move to when you fancy something just as fast but less manic than a hot hatch. Great cars, but not proper hot hatches. They don't make em like they used to lol :rasp:
rubbish, i have more fun in my R26 than i did in my 182, if you know how to use them and drive them properly they areally aren't anywhere near boring or sedate, they are amazing!

I've owned a 106gti, a 182 and the r26 is the most fun!

I see you removed my bit about safety though, not a consideration for you i see, but for me who has nearly died from a car accident its high on the priority list, its nice that one of the best hot hatches ever, both the 182 and the r26 were/are very safe cars also.
 


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