197 vs 182?

[Jimbo-Clio]

turbo cars always seem to find they way into these threads have no idea how or why maybe its a secret game

Porkas = 2 Points
Evo's and scoobys = 1 point
supercars = 3 points

 

[Jimbo-Clio]

No. Poor to drive, ergo I waited for the ugly update. I have driven them on track, plenty of times in the 1*2's.

the 197 will cost a lot more to run on track. Whilst being no quicker. And less fun. I can't think of why anyone would pick a heavier, slower car as the basis for a track car. End of the day you'd want to reduce the weight, negating the everyday usability!

I know you have a major hard-on over the 197, and can't seem able to see past it. But, to the op, I think it's fair so say that most of the track regulars are recommending the 1*2's. The biggest 197 advocate drives an auto Beemer. Make of that what you will .

Might have to follow your threads like twitter aswelll make me LOL

 

[Gaz_]

No. Poor to drive, ergo I waited for the ugly update. I have driven them on track, plenty of times in the 1*2's.

the 197 will cost a lot more to run on track. Whilst being no quicker. And less fun. I can't think of why anyone would pick a heavier, slower car as the basis for a track car. End of the day you'd want to reduce the weight, negating the everyday usability!

I know you have a major hard-on over the 197, and can't seem able to see past it. But, to the op, I think it's fair so say that most of the track regulars are recommending the 1*2's. The biggest 197 advocate drives an auto Beemer. Make of that what you will .

Seriously fella, a 200 in your spec is not night and day different to a 197. You get the same slow rack, and infact, softer set up than a regular 197.... you might get a 'little' more low down grunt (1000 rpm lower) and maybe the ratios in 1st/2nd/3rd help a little, but in terms of feel i bet its 95% the same!

 

[ForceIndia]

Might have to follow your threads like twitter aswelll make me LOL

Mr alant clearly wants to be a mod imo, when he succeeds no doubt I'll be perma-banned .

 

[alanc1000]

haha, i also see that all of the advocates of 182's are... 182 owners who havent owned a 197?!!?

We are all biased, so no point in getting all excited. Plus IIRC 182s dont have 45kg of downforce due to an amazing diffuser?!!?

Kevster and shadowness - silly isnt it, which if you read my previous posts about weight is exactly the point i am demonstrating, so thanks for agreeing with me.

Edit - mod = no ta.

 

[ForceIndia]

Seriously fella, a 200 in your spec is not night and day different to a 197. You get the same slow rack, and infact, softer set up than a regular 197.... you might get a 'little' more low down grunt (1000 rpm lower) and maybe the ratios in 1st/2nd/3rd help a little, but in terms of feel i bet its 95% the same!

You're entitled to your thoughts fella. But the 200 excites me far more than the 197. I've driven plenty of 197's, left each one glad to get back in my 172. Wouldn't mind the front end looks from one though lol n

 

[.Kev.]

To the OP,

Sell the 197
Use funds to buy a Ph1 172 or better still a 172 Cup + mods if you so wish
Use left over cash on a daily runner.

Endex

 

[Pinkorstink]

It would be helpful if when replying to these sort of questions people would detail their actual experiences of driving each of the cars in question (preferably around a track). Lots of opinions here which without actual experience count for sweet FA.

 

[kev182cup]

Now I haven't tracked any clio's and haven't driven a 200 but ever thought of sourcing a ex mk1 Clio cup car or even ph1 cup car. Extra coolness and racing history. Gotta be better than a self made track car.

 

[.Kev.]

haha, i also see that all of the advocates of 182's are... 182 owners who havent owned a 197?!!?

We are all biased, so no point in getting all excited. Plus IIRC 182s dont have 45kg of downforce due to an amazing diffuser?!!?

Kevster and shadowness - silly isnt it, which if you read my previous posts about weight is exactly the point i am demonstrating, so thanks for agreeing with me.

Edit - mod = no ta.

Sorry matey, switched off when you mentioned 911's in a 197 vs 182 discussion. :boring:

 

[ForceIndia]

Now I haven't tracked any clio's and haven't driven a 200 but ever thought of sourcing a ex mk1 Clio cup car or even ph1 cup car. Extra coolness and racing history. Gotta be better than a self made track car.

If it's purely for track, 100% correct. if it'll be used on the road, it's a non-starter.

 

[Brett]

if ur worried bout the weight of a 197 then get the 197cup its much lighter than any previous clio and trust me its a flying machine

:star: Congratulations. You have just made the most ludicrous comment on CS this year. I honestly can't believe i've just read that.

 

[alanc1000]

Sorry matey, switched off when you mentioned 911's in a 197 vs 182 discussion. :boring:

Thats ok, maybe time for bed if you are tired?

Heres a nice website that lists track times for a variety of cars around a list of tracks. To be kind, i have filtered it to Renaults. Its interesting to see that 197s and 200s feature faster than 182s in many cases.

http://www.fastestlaps.com/makes/Renault.html

 

[JasonB]

Not really fussed on 172, i like the looks of the 182.

But wait, *mk2 newbie* isn't there a facelife 172 that looks like the 182?

Now I haven't tracked any clio's and haven't driven a 200 but ever thought of sourcing a ex mk1 Clio cup car or even ph1 cup car. Extra coolness and racing history. Gotta be better than a self made track car.

It will hit the road at some point, so its not really an option for me. I also want the whole experience of making my own car, not buying someone else's.

 

[JasonB]

What is the difference between a 172 facelift and a 182 btw?

I'm a complete newb on mk2 stuff, lol.

 

[ForceIndia]

Thats ok, maybe time for bed if you are tired?

Heres a nice website that lists track times for a variety of cars around a list of tracks. To be kind, i have filtered it to Renaults. Its interesting to see that 197s and 200s feature faster than 182s in many cases.

http://www.fastestlaps.com/makes/Renault.html

Different day, different drivers? Thanks for a pointless post. Evo tested the Trophy against the 197cup, same day, same driver. I'll let you guess which was quicker.

 

[JasonB]

Thats ok, maybe time for bed if you are tired?

Heres a nice website that lists track times for a variety of cars around a list of tracks. To be kind, i have filtered it to Renaults. Its interesting to see that 197s and 200s feature faster than 182s in many cases.

http://www.fastestlaps.com/makes/Renault.html

I am also guessing that those statistics are as standard cars, in my case it'll be striped out facelift 172 or 182 with AST's and everything else vs a standard 197 cup.

 

[ForceIndia]

What is the difference between a 172 facelift and a 182 btw?

I'm a complete newb on mk2 stuff, lol.

The ph2 172 and the 182 look identical bar the exhaust (uprated exhausts are cheaper for the 172). There are also more coilover options for the 172 compared to the 182 with cup suspension.

 

[ForceIndia]

I am also guessing that those statistics are as standard cars, in my case it'll be striped out facelift 172 or 182 with AST's and everything else vs a standard 197 cup.

Investigate all coilover opptions before going straight to AST's. All I'll say on the subject.

 

[Steve]

Warren my 197 was quicker than my Trophy over my test route by quiet a margin.
Mainly down to better brakes ala lot more confidence where it counts & far more compliant on the edge.

But that was then.

Now i'm loving RWD.

 

[alanc1000]

Different day, different drivers? Thanks for a pointless post. Evo tested the Trophy against the 197cup, same day, same driver. I'll let you guess which was quicker.

ahh yes that old chestnut, the get out clause!! I like your loyalty to 182s alot.

I am also guessing that those statistics are as standard cars, in my case it'll be striped out facelift 172 or 182 with AST's and everything else vs a standard 197 cup.

It doesnt state whether these are standard, but most tests are listed as autosport as the test drivers, so possibly all stock.

If it helps, when you select a car, on the table there is a column on the left with track names, click on the track and it lists the record times for cars.

 

[ForceIndia]

ahh yes that old chestnut, the get out clause!! I like your loyalty to 182s alot.



It doesnt state whether these are standard, but most tests are listed as autosport as the test drivers, so possibly all stock.

If it helps, when you select a car, on the table there is a column on the left with track names, click on the track and it lists the record times for cars.

Good come back. You concisely addressed my point. Oh, wait.......

 

[Pinkorstink]

Different day, different drivers? Thanks for a pointless post. Evo tested the Trophy against the 197cup, same day, same driver. I'll let you guess which was quicker.

I'd have to say that these results give a more objective outlook than any opinion posted here so far.

 

[ForceIndia]

Warren my 197 was quicker than my Trophy over my test route by quiet a margin.
Mainly down to better brakes ala lot more confidence where it counts & far more compliant on the edge.

But that was then.

Now i'm loving RWD.

That matches my experience with the 200. It's easier to get the speed (on road), although I don't agree re the brakes. It's exactly the fact that it is easier to get the speed, and it's less lively at the edge that makes it less fun for me.
I spent a long time getting the 172 to my taste, very twitchy and lively at the back. Brilliant on track, and adjustable coilovers which meant I could settle it down a bit for the daily slog.
Even the 200 is a bit too stable/inert for me. Hence looking at a custom arb.

 

[ForceIndia]

I'd have to say that these results give a more objective outlook than any opinion posted here so far.

An objective outlook on feel/fun/entertainment. Ok.

 

[Pinkorstink]

An objective outlook on feel/fun/entertainment. Ok.

Yes, no hint of favouritism. I expect these drivers are far more capable of getting the best out of a car that I ever will so forgive me if I take their expert word and experience over opinion.

 

[alanc1000]

Different day, different drivers? Thanks for a pointless post. Evo tested the Trophy against the 197cup, same day, same driver. I'll let you guess which was quicker.

just for ref - the stig took a 182 around the top gear test track in 1min 33.8 and the 197 cup in 1min 34, so 0.2 seconds slower.

Also for ref - you favorite magazine has this to say about the 197 vs the 182..

"So which is it? Brilliantly accomplished hot-hatch hero, or slow-witted fat kid in Nike Air 360s? After two days’ driving on the roads of northern Portugal, I think I can safely rule out the latter. In fact, ‘accomplished’ is perhaps the best word to describe the 197. It has grip in abundance, brilliant brakes and an engine that loves to rev. Point-to-point it’d take a very talented driver in a 182 to stick to the 197’s rear diffuser when the going gets bumpy and twisty. As a technical exercise then, the 197 is an unmitigated success."

http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/200372/renaultsport_clio.html

All for reference as i know you dont like a biased opinion and respect the view of Evo mag over mine!

 

[DanFreemanPhoto]

You keep forgetting this is a 182 vs 197 AS A TRACK CAR.

Yes I am slightly biased towards the 182, because I can speak from very good experience after what I've done to mine as a track car. But I can't think of a single reason why you would choose a 197 to turn into a track project:

- They are bigger/heavier. Yes this keeps coming up but for a TRACK car this is kind of a big deal.
- More expensive to run. Bigger tyres/brakes = $$$ A more thirsty engine etc...
- Not as 'expendable'. I think most people would feel pretty against ripping everything out of a lovely 197, with a 1*2, it's not as big a deal.
- How many people have turned 197s into track slags? Not much advice/inspiration about.

 

[Cal182]

I'll swap you, my 182 for your 197.

 

[JasonB]

You keep forgetting this is a 182 vs 197 AS A TRACK CAR.

Yes I am slightly biased towards the 182, because I can speak from very good experience after what I've done to mine as a track car. But I can't think of a single reason why you would choose a 197 to turn into a track project:

- They are bigger/heavier. Yes this keeps coming up but for a TRACK car this is kind of a big deal.
- More expensive to run. Bigger tyres/brakes = $$$ A more thirsty engine etc...
- Not as 'expendable'. I think most people would feel pretty against ripping everything out of a lovely 197, with a 1*2, it's not as big a deal.
- How many people have turned 197s into track slags? Not much advice/inspiration about.

Exactly where I'm coming from on the last point. I'm not really someone who knows a shed load about how to rip a car to pieces. I don't really want to take to my car with a hammer and chizzle and then come to some wires and be like, wtf?

At least with the 182, it doesn't cost as much, its an older car and a lot of people have already ripped it all out so I've got more help. Its also a smaller car, and weighs less in the first place.

If I'm going to be doing the 182 seriously, it will have a brake conversion at some point most probably.

 

[gashead1105]

I've not driven the 197, and so I won't comment on it's qualities.

However, for my money, the 182 is a cracking track car out of the box. If you want to go for the fastest time possible, then of course you can strip it out and spend lots of money on it. If, however, you just want to have fun on track, I honestly believe that all you need to do is buy some brembo discs, DS2500 pads, leave the rest of it standard and the time driving it.

I haven't read the rest of this thread I'm afraid, but I have one question - have you actually done a track day yet? If not, I strongly suggest you just go out and do one before deciding what you want to do - whether it's in your 197 or otherwise.

If you want to chop your 197 in for the 182, strip it out etc, there are numerous threads on here from where people have done this, not gone on track(!), decided it's unliveable with day to day and got rid of it pronto - see the recent thread on here from the chap at Wests for example. As standard, they are very competent on track and, with climate control, cruise control etc they're perfectly comfortable getting there and back to.

As for a price on one, I would want 5.5/6k for my low mileage one with 1 year left on the warranty and no expense spared on its maintenance, but you can pick up a high mileage one for 3k (or less if you are lucky), particularly if it's got some bumps and dents.

 

[Porkie]

God, here we go. A 911 turbo is not a great track car, if it were the gt3 wouldn't exist.
Did you track your Clio?

Turbos are AWESOME on track!

GT3's are more involving and challenging to drive fast.

but both GREAT on track.

Turbo faster and easier to drive! GT3 sounds much better.

Different cars for different people. LOTS of people track their Turbos ALOT, and plenty of GT3 owners never go near a track.



As for Clios? driven lots of laps around Nurburgring in a 197. Amazing little car I thought.
Unless you are doing one trackday a week... I'd stick with the newer 197 and just track that.

You know the car and its history and they are very capable on track. You could get a right money pity of a 182.... and it WILL need money spent on it

more importantly you get to enjoy a nice car EVERYDAY if you keep the 197

 

[JasonB]

I've not driven the 197, and so I won't comment on it's qualities.

However, for my money, the 182 is a cracking track car out of the box. If you want to go for the fastest time possible, then of course you can strip it out and spend lots of money on it. If, however, you just want to have fun on track, I honestly believe that all you need to do is buy some brembo discs, DS2500 pads, leave the rest of it standard and the time driving it.

I haven't read the rest of this thread I'm afraid, but I have one question - have you actually done a track day yet? If not, I strongly suggest you just go out and do one before deciding what you want to do - whether it's in your 197 or otherwise.

If you want to chop your 197 in for the 182, strip it out etc, there are numerous threads on here from where people have done this, not gone on track(!), decided it's unliveable with day to day and got rid of it pronto - see the recent thread on here from the chap at Wests for example. As standard, they are very competent on track and, with climate control, cruise control etc they're perfectly comfortable getting there and back to.

As for a price on one, I would want 5.5/6k for my low mileage one with 1 year left on the warranty and no expense spared on its maintenance, but you can pick up a high mileage one for 3k (or less if you are lucky), particularly if it's got some bumps and dents.

Thankyou for a response to my post (not just continuing the 182 vs 197 argument )

I've done a few trackdays, and I used to race karts professionally. (Not me, but its what i used to do - http://www.kartcom.com/com_kart_asset/9728/Max-Verstappen-KF3.jpg)

So i just want a trackday car really, thats cheaper than karting (pretty much everything is, lol) and then a boring runaround. Something I can put some of my time/money into and actually enjoy. With my 197 at the mo, its good but these days you can't enjoy a car like that on the road without some twirp in a speed camera van sat around the corner. I don't really get to enjoy it.

So its why i just want to get rid and have a track car, I miss the openness of the track and what comes with it. 5.5k would be the top end of my budget, I wouldn't really be looking to spend much more than that, unless it was something amazing.

 

[Cooksport]

I have both cars, 182 and 197. Handling and brake wise, the 182 doesn't compare to the 197. The 182 seating position is worse, and i found the steering very vague compared to the 197.

Simple mods can vastly improve the 197 (imo) i have recently had a remap and lowered the car on eibachs, (its also got a my spare clio cup wheels on it). I matched the inlets and have got a ITG pannel filter, and also a ktec exhaust with decat. I was pouring money into the 182, so much to the point it had ITBs, coilovers etc.

The 182 is more "raw" and by no means a bad track car, but in my opinion from a track and road perspective the 197 is better.

It all depends what you want, a 172 or 182 track car such as chrispy's is amazing.

 

[JasonB]

I have both cars, 182 and 197. Handling and brake wise, the 182 doesn't compare to the 197. The 182 seating position is worse, and i found the steering very vague compared to the 197.

Simple mods can vastly improve the 197 (imo) i have recently had a remap and lowered the car on eibachs, (its also got a my spare clio cup wheels on it). I matched the inlets and have got a ITG pannel filter, and also a ktec exhaust with decat. I was pouring money into the 182, so much to the point it had ITBs, coilovers etc.

The 182 is more "raw" and by no means a bad track car, but in my opinion from a track and road perspective the 197 is better.

It all depends what you want, a 172 or 182 track car such as chrispy's is amazing.

I would be taking out the standard seats and replacing them with bucket's, wheel would be changed too. I would basically doing simular to what Shadowness has done to start off with - http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?493362-Clio-182-The-project-that-almost-never-was!

I do agree you can mod the 197 with matched inlets etc etc, but i could never face ripping it to bits. Also from what people are saying the 197 costs more to run, which is what I'm finding too. Basically i want a cheap runaround car to go to the shops in, gf's etc etc and then a car to have fun in and work on, to make my own. The 182 wouldn't see the public roads unless I wanted to go out and have some fun in it, or to go to trackdays etc.

I love my 197 and everything about it, but I'm not really enjoying driving it on the public roads, its not a nice car to "drive around in" if you know what i mean?

 

[gashead1105]

JasonB - you're welcome! I've done a few track days in the past couple of years and generally on any one day, there will be 4 or 5 1*2s and, at the most, 1 or 2 197s. That's obviously a reflection on the price, and if you don't want the ultimate lap time I don't think you need to modify the car in any great way and could easily buy a very decent 182 for your budget.

Obviously, if you do want a car to modify, then like cookie you can chuck loads of money at a 1*2, whereas I don't believe the same level of mods are available for a 197.

If you've not driven a 182 yet, well compared to the mk3 clio (I've driven a 200 so comment based on that) it's built much more cheaply, is less refined, doesn't ride bumps as well, has a worse driving position, a much worse gearbox, a heavier clutch and is basically not as good an overall car - so much so that I almost ordered a new 200 a few months ago. However I'd rather have the 182 as a track car than a 200 (particularly factoring in price/values). The engine feels like it has more lower down pull, I think the turn in is sharper, you've got a lot less weight to worry about (with its associated cost angle on brakes etc), it feels more playful and I like a bit of back end movement. Uprate the brakes as I've suggested and you'll have a lot of fun. The 200 will be faster on a lap out of the box, without shadow of a doubt, but more fun? I don't think so.

Anyway, I've ordered the Megane 250 in the end. It feels like a touring car and I fully expect it to be awesome round somewhere like Bedford - but that's an entirely different thread!

 

[Porkie]

So i just want a trackday car really, thats cheaper than karting (pretty much everything is, lol) and then a boring runaround..

If you think doing lots of trackdays is gonna work out cheaper than Karting you are going to be in for a BIG shock!

 

[BR33NY]

lets just stop bitching both cars are sh.it hot i would like to race a 182 round the country roads where i live just for a laugh any1 in scotland up for that

 

[JasonB]

If you think doing lots of trackdays is gonna work out cheaper than Karting you are going to be in for a BIG shock!

Karting cost about 30-40k over 4 years?

You can't tell me its going to be more than that?

 

[Porkie]

but Karting doesn't HAVE to cost that.

and you can always do trackdays on the cheap.

but if you used to race 'professionally' you WILL be pushing the car hard and want to start modding it here and there. Trackdays are NOT a cheap hobby in any way shape or form if you do alot of them. (2 or more a month for example)


I easily spend more than 10k on trackdays and car matinence and mods a year. EASILY! But I do ALOT!