2001 172 no revs at idle, now wont start..

[Robbie Corbett]

Fact is that if it was running fine (ignoring the alternator shitting out) before he touched the car.... and all he did was change belts he has fucked the timing up.

Getting timing wrong is notoriously easy on these due to the space/visibility of the w**k tensioner.

Failing that other random failures include CPS, injectors, TB but despite all of that I'm thinking you will still find he has buggered the timing.

 

[Brigsy]

If your not confident in doing the belts yourself, id get it to a specialist, and get them to do a report/rectify if needs be.

 

[Tarvitz]

Take inlet manifold off,
Take spark plugs out
Put dipstick in cylinder 1,
Rotate engine using spanner on crank bolt OR by rotating one wheel with car in gear (other wheel needs to be on the floor)
When the dipstick is poking out as far as it will go your at tdc
Take the plugs out of the RHS of rocker cover/head
Take a picture and post it here.

All of that will take you 2 hrs max.

This is quite advanced for me mate, is there a guide to do this or could you elaborate on a few bits, as in what dip stick, how do I know cylinder one and can I get to the crank without taking engine mount off?

 

[Tarvitz]

Fact is that if it was running fine (ignoring the alternator shitting out) before he touched the car.... and all he did was change belts he has fucked the timing up.

Getting timing wrong is notoriously easy on these due to the space/visibility of the w**k tensioner.

Failing that other random failures include CPS, injectors, TB but despite all of that I'm thinking you will still find he has buggered the timing.

Thanks for the replies mate, is there a way to diagnose if there is an issue with the TB? As until I have a go at this he won't accept its his fault and I just feel like he will charge me more money. By the way this is an experienced garage I sent to but I was nervous about sending it to him and now wish I'd used a specialist. But hindsight aye.

 

[Tarvitz]

So I found some time today to take the TB and TDC sensor off and cleaned them again hoping that would be different ie I put the TDV in slightly wrong place or something and I needed to clean the TB properly anyway but same issue. Turns over fine but no spark at all.

I did notice the red light between start and stop was blinking a little fast, could this be the immobiliser?

 

[Brigsy]

Does sound like immobiliser issues if the red immob light is not going off when ignition is turned on. Have you disturbed anything in the fusebox under the bonnet?

 

[Tarvitz]

Possible, the fux box cover is off, i can take a look tomorrow god i hope its that simple, cheers mate again fingers crossed.

Anything in particular to keep an eye out for?

 

[Tarvitz]

After checking again today I couldn't see any fuses out of place but there were a few gaps, I'll attach a picture to see if you can see any issues but I checked they were all in ok.

Also I noted that when I turn the ignition on the immobiliser light goes out so not sure its that either. Seems its still pointing towards the TDC as the problem.

Does anyone know where I can pick up a like for like replacement? Read lots about a new blue kind but you have to resolder In the adapter so not sure if that's worth messing with the loom for?

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[Tarvitz]

Update:
I have got my clip to work and below errors were showing, this still most likely points towards the TDC although I don't understand why removing and cleaning would brake it but either way I have a replacement sensor on the way so I can see of it helps.

Any help, advice would be appreciated.

 

[Brigsy]

Tdc wiring plug is possibly damaged from removing it. Check for rpm on live data when cranking the engine on the starter, if no rpm showing renew the sensor and the plug for the later one.

 

[Tarvitz]

Tdc wiring plug is possibly damaged from removing it. Check for rpm on live data when cranking the engine on the starter, if no rpm showing renew the sensor and the plug for the later one.

Thanks for the reply.

Apologies for the ignorance but just a pleb in his garage here, what do you mean by the above? Do you mean with CLIP attached try and crank? And where do I see the live data in clip? I didn't see this when looking through the UI.

 

[Brigsy]

Yes with clip on, get the engine parameters screen up, and crank the engine whilst watching the rpm parameter

 

[Tarvitz]

Yes with clip on, get the engine parameters screen up, and crank the engine whilst watching the rpm parameter

Ok cheers ill give this a go tomorrow. What will it mean if there are no revs? I'm pretty sure there are none registering on the dials.

 

[Tarvitz]

Ok done the test and nothing at all, I can see the voltage supply to the computer fluctuates but nothing for rpm whilst cranking see image below.

 

[Tarvitz]

Does this mean it's definitely a tdc issue? Also I only have a new sensor on the way not the connector but I'll try speak to someone and get the part tomorrow

 

[Krarl]

Yes

Buy the repair kit from Renault mate

 

[Tarvitz]

Yes

Buy the repair kit from Renault mate

Thanks, repair kit as in new sensor and adaptor the blue one?

 

[Krarl]

Thanks, repakr kot as in new sensor and adaptor the blue one?

Aye mate, the newer style sensor doesn't break up internally like the old black ones

 

[Tarvitz]

Great cheers I'm hoping somewhere is open to pick one up tomorrow

 

[Tarvitz]

Yes

Buy the repair kit from Renault mate

Hi mate, in your experience do you think this would be why my car was stalling also or more likely a timing issue?

 

[Tarvitz]

After closer inspection of the loom.at the back I think I've found the issue, seems to be a nic in the wires. See images.

Quick question when resoldering the new part how do you know which wire is which?

 

[Krarl]

That'll do it haha

 

[Tarvitz]

Indeed!! So I fitted the new blue connector and sensor and the car starts!!

Unfortunately I'm still having the other issue...

- Seems to idle ok then so little revs that it splutters and stalls
- Also reversing is a pain and stalls so often
- The car seems fine at higher revs, driving through gears lovely but coming to junctions slowing especially with the clutch dumped the car trys to stall
- Also not sure if this is connected but the fog light on dash comes on when i hit the break peddle? (I think it may have always done this and fogs haven't worked in an age)

So now that I have cleaned the throttle body thoroughly inside and out, replaced the TDC sensor and loom connector does this mean its definitely a timing issue?

 

[RustyMojo]

Can you post a video of it running? And of the issues you are having?

 

[Tarvitz]

Can you post a video of it running? And of the issues you are having?

Sure,

This video was taken just after I started the car idling on the driveway.


This video was after a good run and the engine was warm, to me its considerably worse.

 

[Tarvitz]

The only other thing I thought of is that the fuel was fairly old and had been in the car for some time, up to two years, but it was treated with injection cleaner and equates for just under half the tank, I filled it with the best stuff shell do a week or so ago to the brim.

 

[RustyMojo]

I’d be checking the injectors and likely for the cost changing them and the plugs.

 

[Tarvitz]

I’d be checking the injectors and likely for the cost changing them and the plugs.

Ok, good suggestion thank you, I will change to ngk laser platinum plugs as people seem.to favor them for these, is it a case for like for like OE parts for injectors?

 

[RustyMojo]

Make sure you buy the proper Renault injectors not the cheap copies mate. As these can cause some other issues. These cars seem to eat injectors (or more likely they are all getting to that kind of age where they are starting to fail)

 

[Tarvitz]

Make sure you buy the proper Renault injectors not the cheap copies mate. As these can cause some other issues. These cars seem to eat injectors (or more likely they are all getting to that kind of age where they are starting to fail)

Yeah cheers mate, I will do that. Do you think it sounds like an injector, plug issue? The car seems to rev really nice through the gears, it's just at idle and pulling off in first is a bit jumpy, from there it seems sweet as as a nut.

 

[Brigsy]

Did you check the map values on clip live data?

You will be wasting your money firing the parts cannon at it, hoping its going to sort it out imo. Get it to somebody who knows these well to have a look.

 

[Tarvitz]

Did you check the map values on clip live data?

You will be wasting your money firing the parts cannon at it, hoping its going to sort it out imo. Get it to somebody who knows these well to have a look.

Any suggestions in the norwich area? I was speaking to cit-ren about the issue, they suspected timing.

But changing the plugs etc can't hurt can it, I can almost guarantee it's not running as good as ngk plugs and can't remember when they were last done.

 

[Tarvitz]

Did you check the map values on clip live data?

You will be wasting your money firing the parts cannon at it, hoping its going to sort it out imo. Get it to somebody who knows these well to have a look.

What do you mean about the map values mate? Where and what should I be looking out for please?

 

[npt]

Best thing to do is see if there is anyone local to you on the forum who could maybe pop round in give you a hand, even better they may have spare parts to aid fault finding and save you some cash

 

[Tarvitz]

Best thing to do is see if there is anyone local to you on the forum who could maybe pop round in give you a hand, even better they may have spare parts to aid fault finding and save you some cash

Yes that would be amazing, I've read so many threads on rough idles especially after belt changes it seems, I don't know what to think, I drove again today and I can drive it fine but when the engine is up to temperature it almost guarantees to stall when coming to a stop, and reversing is a pain in the butt.

Surely this can't be normal, I've never had this before with this car but then I swear it feels smoother to drive and faster than ever through the gears.

Is anyone local to Norwich who could take a look?

 

[Tarvitz]

So after changing the MAP sensor and the throttle body it was the throttle body that stopped the car stalling finally, i was super pleased as just fixed it today then the exaust decided to fall off... ahh life as a renault enthusiast

Thanks everyone who replied and suggested help