200bhp Petrol vs 200bhp Diesel

[Michael172]

Interested - same car, same weight, same driver blah blah blah.

Just differnt engines. One a petrol and one a diesel.

Which would be faster ? the diesel or the petrolium ?

 

[Robbs29]

petrol

diesel has a much narrower powerband.

petrols have better acceleration and top end due to power band.

Diesels have better mid range!

 

[Michael172]

regardless of the same power figures ?

 

[black kro]

away from the lights? - petrol

on the road? diesel cos would have prob. 40% more torque

I'd say a diesel with 80% of the bhp of a petrol would be a match in 'every day'

i.e. an 80bhp diesel would match a 100bhp petrol 'in real life'

so a 160bhp diesel would match a 200bhp petrol

^ ^ try leaving a 120d behind in a 197?

 

[Robbs29]

yea a diesel will match a petrol mid range once rolling which is public road drivi0ng to an extent.

you said what was quicker. so say 0-150mph the petrol will win!

 

[len_beach]

The diesel if you don't know where the gear stick is, petrol if you can change gear.

 

[S77CCP]

Well, if they both have 200bhp, chances are the dev will have something like 300+ ft/lbs which would leave the petrol standing, fact.

 

[FlameR]

From a standstill, the petrol. But cruising on the motorway or whatever, the diesel will have loads more torque

 

[Robbs29]

i use to have a 170bhp st24 and my mate had a 150bhp gti tdi golf.

we both booted it from 50mph and he edge ahead to 60mph (think he was right on his power band) and were identical until we hit 90mph when my st24 pulled away.

 

[Iridium]

Flat out - the petrol, more top end. Kept on the boil, there wouldn't be much in it.

Dan

 

[Robbs29]

as everyone is stateing - acceleration = petrol, mid range = diesel, top end = petrol.

 

[Butler205]

away from the lights? - petrol

on the road? diesel cos would have prob. 40% more torque

I wonder about this torque...

Say I have a petrol engine, putting out peak torque at 6000rpm, say 150lbft.
I have a diesel engine putting out 200lbft at 3000rpm.

Say both cars are travelling it 30mph.

The petrol car will have massive gearing advantage. So torque at the wheels needs to be considered.

Thats my theory.

 

[McBunny]

alot of dervs put out almost max torque from 1500 rpm ish

 

[S77CCP]

My only experince of this has been follwoing SteveV6 in his 3.0 litre Espace (with wife and kids in tow)

He booted it down a slip road (tail tell black cloud) and it just shot off! I was in gear and everything. Never understimate the mid range punch of a diesel.

 

[Robbs29]

My only experince of this has been follwoing SteveV6 in his 3.0 litre Espace (with wife and kids in tow)

He booted it down a slip road (tail tell black cloud) and it just shot off! I was in gear and everything. Never understimate the mid range punch of a diesel.

Very wise quote there!

 

[CHRISK172+]

My only experince of this has been follwoing SteveV6 in his 3.0 litre Espace (with wife and kids in tow)

He booted it down a slip road (tail tell black cloud) and it just shot off! I was in gear and everything. Never understimate the mid range punch of a diesel.

Very wise quote there!

Very wise indeed ......but not sooooo much fun IMO

 

[Andyman]

If your not on cam a turbo diesel will catch you out every time !

My mate in his VRS Skoda wolfed it past me when i was off gaurd (just coming off a roundabout at say 30mph) and it took quite a bit of reving and mph to pull him back in!

Unless youve driven a TDI you dont realise just how rapid they are

 

[S77CCP]

My gf has a 1.4 common rail fiesta TDCI thing, which is surprisingly nippy away from the lights, catches many 1.6.,1.8 drivers out. :rasp:

 

[Andyman]

My old man has a TDi Focus and it would eat mine for dinner up to 50mph !

 

[avstar1]

Interested - same car, same weight, same driver blah blah blah.

Just differnt engines. One a petrol and one a diesel.

Which would be faster ? the diesel or the petrolium ?

Surely the diesel block would be heavier so couldn't be identiical in a real world?

Plus are both cars turbo'd?

 

[S77CCP]

Interested - same car, same weight, same driver blah blah blah.

Just differnt engines. One a petrol and one a diesel.

Which would be faster ? the diesel or the petrolium ?

Surely the diesel block would be heavier so couldn't be identiical in a real world?

Plus are both cars turbo'd?

'In theory'

 

[MillerLight]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zo987X-Au48

240 petrol
200 cdti

not much in it

 

[LiquidRich]

I would say that the diesil would be better off the line coz it got the torque and the grunt at the very low rev range, would say that if you were on the road driving pretty hard the petrol would be better co ur in the power band. But thats just my thoughts

 

[rory182]

more gear changes req'd in the diesel if it were a sprint, therefore from a standstill petrol.

power - weight being the same they should be the same in terms of speed if driven properly (properly for the diesel being different from properly for the petrol)

But granted this is not going to happen so on the road the diesel would win, I find them a bit bland though - torque is certainly nice but the fact that 4th, 5th and 6th gear have little difference at certain speeds seems utterly boring to me!

I prefer my revs thanks.

 

[Clio_V6_255]

away from the lights? - petrol

on the road? diesel cos would have prob. 40% more torque

I wonder about this torque...

Say I have a petrol engine, putting out peak torque at 6000rpm, say 150lbft.
I have a diesel engine putting out 200lbft at 3000rpm.

Say both cars are travelling it 30mph.

The petrol car will have massive gearing advantage. So torque at the wheels needs to be considered.

Thats my theory.

Thats the bit people always forget. High power at high revs is good for speed as you can run low gears which effectively multiplies your torque as the car is easier to move. Think about riding a bike in a high or low gear. You change down to go up a hill as that makes it easier to move.

That why BHP is a good measure as it involves RPM.

2 cars with 150 BHP should accelerate at the same rate (if the same mass etc).

BUT Diesel engines are heavy and have narrow power bands so further hampering performance.

Conversely in the real world they make up for it with their easy to tune turbos! :dapprove:

TBH For me the noise is the killer. I'll stick with my v6 with carbon air intake, and full decat system just behing my seat! :evil:

Peter

 

[TomTom]

Agree with Kro

0-60 - Petrol
60-130 - Diesel

Round a circuit the petrol would have to work pretty hard to loose the diesel, whereas the diesel would just pull a bit more effortlessly.

From a standstill has anyone whos driven a 'performance' diesel will tell you, and the the new Megane DCI RS is a perfect example, first gears over in a split second.

I'd take a petrol Megane RS over the diesel Megane RS just for the boost/sucking up small animals sound and a decent turbo whistle.

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

From the lights = Petrol
Top speed = Depends on gearing
Everywhere else = Diesel

On a track, 2 identical cars bar the engine (one 200bhp petrol and one 200bhp diesel), the diesel would have it.

 

[Gumby]

200hp petrol v 200hp derv you say?

Same car - the petrol would get raped. The car might weigh 100-200kg more, but then again the engine would also would kick out about twice the torque (in Nm) of the petrol. It's like comparing a BMW 325i and a 330d

However if you had said 2Litre petrol v 2Litre derv then obviously the petrol would take the biscuit the majority of the time.

 

[vincent]

http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=100&i=9847

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

200hp petrol v 200hp derv you say?

Same car - the petrol would get raped. The car might weigh 100-200kg more, but then again the engine would also would kick out about twice the torque (in Nm) of the petrol. It's like comparing a BMW 325i and a 330d

However if you had said 2Litre petrol v 2Litre derv then obviously the petrol would take the biscuit the majority of the time.

Indeed, but that's where remapping comes in to let the 330d annihilate the 325, destroy the 330 and compete with the M3. I've been there.

 

[Chris n nic]

300lbft is great but if it is 150 up to a certain revs...300 for a short burst then drop like a rock it isn't quite the same as 300 for a decent stretch. And you can hardly compare remapped cars..how about adding a turbo to the M3 to make it fair?!


Chris

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

300lbft is great but if it is 150 up to a certain revs...300 for a short burst then drop like a rock it isn't quite the same as 300 for a decent stretch.

Chris

It's 2007, diesels have come a long way.

 

[edde]

0-60 the petrol should have the edge depends hwo both are ebing driven the diesel looses as it needs an extra chnage often to get there.

On track the dci will win easily ever time. The weight of the engine won't matter out of bends they pull much better and the power bands ideal.

(this is all assuming normal dci not some remaped stuff)

Diesels are so advanced these days they will often show there petrol up. They looses on not behing able to rev as much but they have the mid range no petrol can muster even with a turbo top ends hp is near the same no realy.

 

[Paul_P1]

You do get 2.0 petrol engines with 200bhp, and loadsa torque too guys!

 

[len_beach]

You do get 2.0 petrol engines with 200bhp, and loadsa torque too guys!

It can't be possible Paul. There must be little fairies covered in soot filling it with diesel every night.

 

[edde]

You do get 2.0 petrol engines with 200bhp, and loadsa torque too guys!

I'm stuck thinking of any which have much more than 200lb torque though for 200hp. Goes for any petrol turboe realy no more torque than hp best of them would be Merc stuff where its600hp and 720lb toruq ie about 1.2 lb per hp.

Golf TDi however is 138hp and 236lb torque ie 1.7ish

Alfa 200 hp 295lb torque ie 1.5ish.

 

[sh33n]

Petrolheads = urrr petrol car.

Diesels, even modern diesels don't drive like petrol cars, and I will curse the day I ever have to own one

And diesels do have narrow power bands and petrols have a much wider power band.

If the engines are both turbo producing exact bhp and torque for arguements sake I'd say the petrol all day long.

Too hard to compare it otherwise to be honest.

 

[len_beach]

Petrolheads = urrr petrol car.

Diesels, even modern diesels don't drive like petrol cars, and I will curse the day I ever have to own one

And diesels do have narrow power bands and petrols have a much wider power band.

If the engines are both turbo producing exact bhp and torque for arguements sake I'd say the petrol all day long.

Too hard to compare it otherwise to be honest.

I'll agree totally with every word there Sheen.

If we're comparing apples with apples, let's look at something like the Octavia 1.9 SDI, 1.9 of pure power, not even the americans could build a N/A engine with such power bhp/litre.

 

[edde]

Petrolheads = urrr petrol car.

Diesels, even modern diesels don't drive like petrol cars, and I will curse the day I ever have to own one

And diesels do have narrow power bands and petrols have a much wider power band.

If the engines are both turbo producing exact bhp and torque for arguements sake I'd say the petrol all day long.

But the diesel will always make more torque?

Diesel powe bands are much better from 2 till 44 they make about 75% to 100% power have a look what a 172 makes at 3.5 to 7k. Its all about maximiming adverage power the diesel have the greater adverage power.

 

[clio__chris]

petrol for me

sorry but i just hate listening to a diesel lump...... so frustrating just wanna rev the damn thing
doesnt feel or sound as good as petrol engine revving to like 7k

not saying that diesels arent quicker on the road..... i just find the engines very borrrrrrring