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cliosport 172 mk2
same but sounds very intresting 
Having the injectors further back allows better mixing of fuel and air so a bit more power - that won't get you to 279bhp though.
Having seen this link discussed on here before people were sceptical.
Probably possible with enough money thrown at it though...
Having seen this link discussed on here before people were sceptical.
Probably possible with enough money thrown at it though...
You can do that on a dyno - hold it at a certain rpm and open throttle, change mapping, etc.
Megane r26
No doubt he will be running 8 injectors, seen a few gti6 Peugeot's pulling big n/a power with a similar setup. The second set of injectors won't come in till higher up the rev range or till a certain loads is met I would of thought, maybe wrong though.
It is sprayed towards the butterfly. Even when at idle there will still be some vacuum there to suck the fuel in. The mapping will only inject the correct amount of fuel for a given load/throttle/rpm etc.
There is probably a second set of injectors in the normal place that would be used at lower power and rpm. The outer ones would likely only be used at higher rpm and load.
There is probably a second set of injectors in the normal place that would be used at lower power and rpm. The outer ones would likely only be used at higher rpm and load.
The revs arent increasing because the dyno is holding them, the power is increasing because he is opening the throttle more.
Perfectly normal stuff.
194lbft is monster though, wonder what engine size it is?
If its 2.0 still im going to doubt the figures TBH unless its on some very funky fuel!
The further away injectors allow better atomisation at higher rpm.
Perfectly normal stuff.
194lbft is monster though, wonder what engine size it is?
If its 2.0 still im going to doubt the figures TBH unless its on some very funky fuel!
The further away injectors allow better atomisation at higher rpm.
Megane r26
Just watched it again after you said that, always thought the Allen key should be at about 12 o'clock
yeah give or take, peak power at 7600rpm? That's erm, unlikley to do that power with "only" 7600rpm!
As stated - 197 engine with forged internals and 8 staged injector setup
Probably had most of the internals custom made
Most things are possible with money
One of my mates was asked to build a 1.4 16v pug engine for a 206 competing in ireland, managed over 200bhp out of it, but there was a £20k bill at the end
Probably had most of the internals custom made
Most things are possible with money
One of my mates was asked to build a 1.4 16v pug engine for a 206 competing in ireland, managed over 200bhp out of it, but there was a £20k bill at the end
Nope.
330i. E30 Touring.
Impossible to tell for sure from that.
There are GTi-6 engines going around NA with that kind of power.
As Phil says, anything is possible, just depends on how deep your pockets are!
Thats why I was questioning the torque rather than the power, perfectly possible to make that power, but would generally be at higher rpm and hence require marginally less torque.
But if its a 2.2 for example, then its perfectly possible at 7600rpm.
I suspect the reality is that the dyno over reads by 5-10% but that its a pretty epic engine still.
There's a Megane F7R making similar power, but that revs to 11.5k, which is more realistic of the requirements.
Engine dynos are a bit different to a rolling road too. There's benefits of measuring direct at the flywheel, but there's inaccuracies too, of space, exhaust setups, temperatures.........blah blah blah
Engine dynos are a bit different to a rolling road too. There's benefits of measuring direct at the flywheel, but there's inaccuracies too, of space, exhaust setups, temperatures.........blah blah blah
You have 2 problems revving an F4R:
1) piston speeds, partly due to stroke length and partly due to rod ratio
2) valve train issues
If you sort the 2nd out with solid lifters and uprated rockers etc you still have the first, it means its a really law of diminishing returns trying to rev one too far.
Would be a lot better suited to being a 1.6 or 1.8 in that size block really, its just not tall enough.
If I wanted to REALLY rev one, I'd be putting an inch think spacer on the top so I could lengthen the rods.
They make a far better turbo engine than N/A engine really, their geometry suits it far better.
Yes this is the problem, for big power you need either big bore and short stroke with a decent rod ratio so you can rev it, or you need big capacity, F4R doesnt do either well!
Agreed, its just too small to get big capacity into, custom crank and block ground back for clearance is the only way to do it, and then like I said I would want longer rods too, which means adding an inch to the top of the block really.
Would be easy to throw away a lot of money just to end up with something still not very good, its just the wrong engine to be playing with if you want 300+ N/A
Its just not a good engine, only reason I have them is cause they came in a car I like, I would never build a kitcar with one for example.
Although turbo they work ok, but N/A they are just rubbish, loads of money for little gain compared to other engines as you are constantly trying to work around its fundamentally piss poor design.
Although turbo they work ok, but N/A they are just rubbish, loads of money for little gain compared to other engines as you are constantly trying to work around its fundamentally piss poor design.
John Gordon
ClioSport Club Member
Clio 2.0 RS 172 Ph1
This. Secondary set of injectors fire a mist in the very front of the throttle bodies. Just like in F1
I agree that Clios make good use of the power on track if thats what you mean?
Plus if done with the right mods the variable cam arrangement means you can have a smooth idle and still good power, which is nice.
SharkyUK
ClioSport Club Member
Phew... I can breathe again. Even if I'm not going completely bats**t crazy... I was just about to throw in the towel and go forced induction...
I fully appreciate these engines aren't probably the best for highly-tuned NA but I just love NA engines. I don't know why. And the fact they come wrapped in such a decent little hot-hatch package and I'm hooked. As I have been since the day I bought mine. Even if it hasn't run healthily since that very first day I bought it. LOL!
Sharkey, dont get me wrong, im not saying dont tune them, im just saying expect worse results than if you tuned other engines, but if you have a clio and love it and it has an f4r in it, then you are stuck with it pretty much. So go for it.
Personally I still prefer FI, but dont get me wrong Ive built, mapped and enjoy driving N/A clios too.
Personally I still prefer FI, but dont get me wrong Ive built, mapped and enjoy driving N/A clios too.
^plus NA is faster
Thats weird, at bedford at the weekend there were lots of clios, and the fastest one by a country mile was the turbo one.
And the guy driving it was pretty average, so im sure it was the car doing the hardwork, lol
If you wanted, you could shovel a million pounds into a Clio. It could have 600bhp and still be N/A (That's an exaggeration Chip ), and weigh 500kg.
However it wouldn't share much with an actual Clio (if anything at all), in the same way that the car below doesn't share much with it's roadgoing namesake:
That's the problem with motorsport, unless you know what you're doing, the only limit is the size of your wallet.
), and weigh 500kg.However it wouldn't share much with an actual Clio (if anything at all), in the same way that the car below doesn't share much with it's roadgoing namesake:
That's the problem with motorsport, unless you know what you're doing, the only limit is the size of your wallet.
ha, you haven't come across one of my engines yet, nor my driving styleeee
I bet any clio you have ever built an engine for would be faster round a track if they swapped it for my engine!
There are lots of clios faster than mine round a track, but only cause of lightness and better suspension etc, if comparing like for like cars, my engine would happily win im very sure, and ive driven a massive variety of N/A engines.
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