ABS + ESP + Service Light

[Westyfield2]

Hi all,

I’ve got an intermittent issue, and in fact the previous owner warned me about it when I was buying the car and said that they’d failed to get it fixed and simply put up with it! Unfortunately I am not the type who can just ignore a problem, now I know it’s there I have to get it fixed.

What happens is that midway through a journey the ABS + ESP + Service Lights all come on simultaneously. Turning the car off and on again turns them off. I’ve had the lights come light up on two successive days, but then not come on for two weeks.

When the lights are on the brakes still work etc, but I think I could hear the ABS pump firing every time the brakes were used for the rest of the journey (I need it to happen again to confirm it was the ABS pump and not a noise in my head!)


So I’ve plugged my RSTuner in (Firmware 1.85 with the Mk2Ph2 ABS Module) and below are the errors it found:



Note that at the time of scanning the lights were not illuminated; the error had happened on a previous outbound journey but then cleared by the return journey home. Next time the lights illuminate on a journey home I’ll leave the car running and plug the RSTuner in whilst the lights are still on and the error is active rather than previously stored.

Any ideas on what might be causing this? Do the error messages mean anything to anyone?

Trying to think about what might be the cause I remembered that one time when the lights came on I had just hit an unavoidable bump. Also because it’s both the ABS + ESP lights coming on I’m trying to think for a common factor between the two systems, and my idea is that both systems use the wheel speed sensors… and a wheel speed sensor missing a rotation could indeed be caused by a bump.

However I obviously don’t want to go round replacing sensors at each corner without knowing it’s a wheel speed sensor at fault and in particular which one!

So yeah, any suggestions on things it might be or ways to narrow it down would be gratefully received!


Cheers,
Ed.

 

[MicKPM]

Could you "feel" the ABS working thru the brake pedal (It vibrates and makes a nasty grinding noise)?

If so I'd have the wheel sensor targets checked.

 

[gdw]

Did you sort this? had this happen to me a few minutes ago, restarted car and lights gone off like yours.

 

[Chris_786]

Happens in mine all the time, it's a brake pedal sensor iirc? Mine shuts off the ABS and traction, I get it when on and off the brakes all the time e.g. sat in traffic.

 

[gdw]

I seem to have a knocking/tapping noise when i turn to one side, it goes away when I put my foot on the brake pedal?

 

[aucky]

ABS sensor I believe

 

[Westyfield2]

Apologies for not replying earlier!


So after clearing the error I had it happen again a couple of times. The noise that I thought was the ABS pump was infact in my head (am I going mad?!) and I gave it some welly to check whether the ABS & ESP were still functioning with the lights lit - they were not.

I then finally had it happen on a journey home so once I got in I grabbed my garage laptop and plugged the RSTuner in with the car still running and the lights on.



As you can see, it was DTC50CE Brake Light Circuit error that was active and bringing the ABS + ESP + Service Lights on.

Some searching on here revealed that this error is because the car has noticed that the brakes are on (from the brake servo I guess) but that the brake lamps are not on . It's warning you that the brake lamp switch on the brake pedal is not working.

I tested the brake lamps vs the pedal on my car and found that the lamps did come on, but I took a good stomp on the pedal to bring them on. Light braking did not bring the brake lamps on. It must have been light braking in traffic that was causing the DTC50CE Brake Light Circuit error.

So I've adjusted the brake lamp switch (guide here) so that now all I need to do is breathe on the brake pedal to make the brake lamps come on.


I haven't yet done enough miles to say that I've 100% fixed it (as I did previously go a couple of weeks without the error) but fingers crossed that's done it...

 

[MicKPM]

It's a common fault mate... worst case, you'll need a new switch but normally a reset will suffice.

 

[Westyfield2]

Well today I did not have the ABS + ESP + Service Lights come on... just the ESP + Service Lights.

I guess one light less is progress!

I've plugged RSTuner in and the error code is different, so I'll start a new thread...

 

[MicKPM]

DF135 is the priority which in this case related to the brake pedal switch. Have you removed it from its secure mount and reset it yet?

 

[Westyfield2]

DF135 is the priority which in this case related to the brake pedal switch. Have you removed it from its secure mount and
reset it yet?

I've followed this guide and adjusted the switch so that now I literally only have to breathe on the pedal to bring the brake lamps on (previously it took a good stomp). IIRC I've got it only one click away from the plunger being all the way in.


I wonder if I've made it too sensitive and the brake lamps are now coming on when I'm not on the brakes...

 

[MicKPM]

Does the code come back instantly or does it clear until you touch the brake pedal?

 

[Westyfield2]

Does the code come back instantly or does it clear until you touch the brake pedal?

I don't know about the error code (I only plugged RSTuner in when I got home) but the ESP + Service Lights today came on mid journey. Both on outbound & return I'd set off with no lights on and had been going a good 10 minutes when the ESP + Service Lights came on (so must have used the brakes by then!) and both times I was not on the brakes at the time the lights came on & wouldn't have been for a good 30 seconds previously (once was going uphill, the other was on the motorway).

 

[MicKPM]

Might be down to the setup of the brake pedal switch then.

 

[GazST]

I have done the same (altho i dont have diagnostics) 1st it was ABS/Traction & Service light, i have reset the pedal switch now comes on just the traction & service lights. Is this a new case of a new switch or something more serious?

 

[aucky]

I had ABS+ESP+SERV lights

Changed brake pedal switch - no change

Changed (by Birchdown) right rear ABS sensor - sorted.

 

[MicKPM]

Exactly as above... without diagnostics or at least scoping the wheel sensors you're just not going to know as theres loads of items on that system able to throw those lights on.

 

[w33 brl]

Mines is doing the same but my rear passenger abs senosr is knackered ....so could be your sensor...sorry if its all ready been said im on my android phone

 

[Westyfield2]

Just to give closure:

ABS + ESP + Service Lights was caused by error codes DTC50CE + DF0135. This was that the brake light switch was not sensitive enough and needed adjusting. "The brakes have been applied but the brake lights aren't on".

ESP + Service Lights was caused by error codes DTC50CD + DF0135. This was that the brake light switch was too sensitive and needed adjusting. "The brakes lights are on but the brakes haven't been applied".



If you keep adjusting the switch as per the guide you'll find the happy medium in-between the two errors. I've now not had the error for months!

 

[chiscuen]

LOVELY! It saved me a stop with the mechanic.... Indeed it was the brake light switch wich was unpluged.

 

[Largey1988]

Hi
I've read this thread and my 182 is doing exactly this. I've adjusted the brake light and hay presto...service and ESP light!!! I've tried to access the set up guide for the brake light but couldn't get onto it for some reason! Could someone please post this guide so as I can access it.

 

[MicKPM]

You need to be a paid member chap... honestly, its the best £12 you'll spend!

 

[Gray]

You need to be a paid member chap... honestly, its the best £12 you'll spend!

I cannot echo this enough!

 

[Largey1988]

That will do for me then, I'll get my ass in and paid lol. Cheers folks.

 

[Oggy182]

Hiya chaps!

Despite doing a lot of reading on here I rarely get chance to post (as you can tell). However, I've been amazed by how much I've achieved with the 182 over the last couple of days. From a quote in excess of 300 for a wheel bearing and to sort out the three dreaded lights (ESP, SERV and ABS), I managed to replace the rear discs and pads (with bearings pressed in) at 70 quid and after stopping here and reading your thread I paid the 12 nicker for membership. I used the guide and this thread and, touch wood, the lights have been out since! I can't believe something that simple has been giving me such a headache for months. As has been said: the best 12 quid I have spent. However, re what you mentioned about:

The noise that I thought was the ABS pump was infact in my head (am I going mad?!

My car's ABS does tend to fire at will under very light braking (i.e. pumps at a very slow rate) which is also the time at which it decided to throw the lights due to the conflict in signals you mentioned in your post. When I've checked under the car the front off-side reluctor / ABS ring appears to be goosed (teeth missing). My next job is to (try) to replace the ring and see if this solves the problem. What I was wondering was if you'd had any problems in the past with ABS rings or sensors, and if your cruise control works, because mine definitely doesn't!? Either way, I'm glad I found this post because it's been a massive help.

Cheers,

Oggy

 

[Largey1988]

Hi Oggy

First off all I'll start off by saying that my clio's cruise control was defo not working full stop, the speed limiter was though. My ABS and service light were intermittently coming on and turing the car off reset these lights. This week I've done a full service (including cam belt, tensioners and pre tensioner with aux belt) lower ball joints and track rod ends. Whilst doing this I was keeping an eye out for anything iffy that could cause theses lights and hey presto I found a snapped CV boot clip sat on my ABS ring!!!! TW*T!!! So whilst in that area I've replaced it with a jubilee clip and there hasn't been any lights come on since (touch wood). I've got a mate who works at Reno so I got on the blower and got the old girl plugged into CLIP and low and behold CLIP told me that the front N/S ABS sensor was at fault...(that's where the snapped CV clip was). If these lights persist to come on I would start by checking all the ABS rings for debris, snapped clips, missing teeth or anything that's amiss. If this doesn't rectifiy your problem you'll defo need to get it plugged into CLIP at a Reno garage as the ABS sensors ain't cheap...! And the front and rear are different so buying one and swapping it from wheel to wheel won't work. Spend £30 for a diagnostic test (or free of u know a Reno tech ; ) haha) and save yourself a few bob.

If you need any further assistance I'll try my best to help.

Cheers Andy

 

[Oggy182]

Cheers for that, sound advice. Lights are still out but my cruise control and speed limiter don't work at all now I've sorted the brake switch (used to select and maintain speed fine but bounce out when you released rocker switch). I'm putting my money on that front ring, but gonna get it on a CLIP as you've suggested. Got a pink looking xenon to sort in the meantime too, endless fun with these

Thanks again mate,

Oggy

 

[Largey1988]

No problem at all mate, pink xenon!! I replaced mine not too long ago. I suggest that you don't buy off Reno and don't buy the osram bulbs they come with as standard...far too expensive and if you replace one it will be a different colour to the other one for sure...! I bought mine off eBay and they sell a variety of temperatures (colours) so ull get a nice bulb, give me an hour or two and ill post a link on here for you. Oh by the way CLIP is renaults own diagnostic equipment. Any more issues drop me an email or post on here.

​Cheers Andy.

 

[Largey1988]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/D2S-HID-X...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item562d349a34

Hi oggy, this is the link for the bulbs I bought. They are off ebay so any issues will be sorted with ease. I've not had any issues with my bulbs and one if my mates has bought off these and not had any issues so as for the quality form these guys it's been second to none up to now. They are only £12.99 (pair) including postage so a real bargain even if they only last 1-2 years against £40-£50 for ONE osram bulb. Can't go wrong with them mate.

 

[Oggy182]

Again, thanks very much for the help pal. Put an order in today. Seen a lot of advice to get it on a CLIP so I'll book it in ASAP.

Cheers,

Oggy

 

[Guy]

Exactly as above... without diagnostics or at least scoping the wheel sensors you're just not going to know as theres loads of items on that system able to throw those lights on.

During a trackday recently my ABS Serv and ESP lights came on on my 182 cup. My front right wheel was hot enough to melt the wheel spiggot ring to the hub so I assumed I had also melted the abs sensor... Anyway I got out a fluke scope and connected it to all 4 sensors one at a time. The rears match each other and went up to around 150mv when turning the wheel by hand in a nice sinusoidal wave. To do the front two I jacked the car up and put it in first gear after connecting to the sensors. They both only seemed to go to around 10mv still with a decent sin wave. Putting it in second gear it rose to about 40mv.

Are the front and rear sensors supposed to be different?
What else puts the three lights on?

Car is currently SORN'd so can't easily pop to the Stealership.

 

[Guy]

And the front and rear are different so buying one and swapping it from wheel to wheel won't work.

Think that answers part of my question..

 

[MicKPM]

During a trackday recently my ABS Serv and ESP lights came on on my 182 cup. My front right wheel was hot enough to melt the wheel spiggot ring to the hub so I assumed I had also melted the abs sensor... Anyway I got out a fluke scope and connected it to all 4 sensors one at a time. The rears match each other and went up to around 150mv when turning the wheel by hand in a nice sinusoidal wave. To do the front two I jacked the car up and put it in first gear after connecting to the sensors. They both only seemed to go to around 10mv still with a decent sin wave. Putting it in second gear it rose to about 40mv.

Are the front and rear sensors supposed to be different?
What else puts the three lights on?

Car is currently SORN'd so can't easily pop to the Stealership.

No, they should all be the same but if the front wheels were spinning faster/slower it would obviously alter the output reading. Seeing as you are getting a reading/wave generation though I'd say that's unlikely to be your issue.

 

[Guy]

Ok Ta, i think I've managed to borrow a proper snapon code reader. It also shows all 4 abs sensor readings while driving aparantly. So hopefully will have it pinpointed by next week.

thinking it may be the brake switch

 

[MicKPM]

Its more likely as that's the common cause but it may also be to do with the steering angle sensor so run a gault code check on the ABS first.

 

[Craig]

My abs serve light and traction control light have started coming on aswell and
When i break my clocks go dim. Stupid cars costing a fortune

 

[Guy]

Its more likely as that's the common cause but it may also be to do with the steering angle sensor so run a gault code check on the ABS first.

Had a snapon machine on it, Front left abs wiring fault. The bloke said its rare the car wiring loom plays up so will probably be the abs sensor. Ive ordered a non genuine replacement off ebay but it's the wrong one (male connector) so will have to try get it exchanged for a female version and hope that cures it.

Still a bit weary as I was getting the waveform scope reading from the sensor itself...

 

[Guy]

Right, My problem has gone up a level..

Original problem was front left ABS sensor, Purchased a non genuine sensor off ebay.
Connected it to the front left and get: Front left sensor and front right sensor.
Reconnect old genuine left sensor and get: Front left sensor

Anyway.. go to right hand side and fit the non genuine sensor on there: Front left sensor
Disconnect sensor from front right and still get: front left sensor


So it appears that
A) non genuine sensor doesnt work and
B) the snapon modis is showing the left and right wrong and it is indeed my front right sensor. This would seem correct as my front right wheel was VERY hot on the trackday when it started playing up.

The other thing is on the live data screen 3 sensors show 0.3kmh speed but the rear left shows 0. Tried jacking it up and spinning the wheels but no change on any of the readouts.

So tomorrow's task is to connect the modis up and take it for a drive to see what speeds show up. Unless the sensor wiring fault stops all of them outputting a reading?

Then looks like I need to splash out on a genuine sensor

 

[weeshawzy]

How much are these brake sensors roughly? Does replacing them an did we find that resetting take away the engine management light?