advice on getting 200bhp per ton from 172

[keithjames84@gmail.c]

Hi guys ive got a 172 and is pretty much standard, it had a aftermarket exhaust on when i got it , though i dont think its anything special as its mild steel, and sits under the body work. So going to assume standard performance still.

Basically i have been thinking when the time comes to modification i would like to see if can get about 200bhp per ton out of this car with out doing anything crazy like turbos or supercharging. as standard is something like 165bhp per ton. so just need 35bhp per ton.


Ive been very tempted by the group buy on inlet matching, but thinking i may go for AWT inlet instead as my rents live in cambridgeshire so will be easyer when coming to do it or get it fitted.

Anyhow i was thinking , maybe a new inlet system viper maybe, ilet matching, 4 2 1 manifold sport can k tec stealth exhaust and a re map.
so basicaly working on the breathing.

what do you guys think these mods would get me ? and is it possible to get up to the 200bhp per ton mark while still keeping standard ecu?

 

[broster@JAM-Sport]

Take some weight out of it aswell

 

[davM]

Exactly. Strip it and it'll be not too far from 200bhp/ton

 

[Bazzon]

Take weight out is the only sensible way of doing it.

Our track car is at over 225 per ton, but that has 202bhp and weighs less that 910KGs

 

[keithjames84@gmail.c]

you lot will hate this but want to keep the interior as want it for every day use im dowting with the list ive said ill get to the 200bhp per ton mark . but with out stripping out to a shell what you guys think?

 

[172Ben]

ITB's and cams

 

[BenR]

With it over the ton by a large margin in stock trim, you'll have to be well over 200bhp at the flywheel. Which isnt cheap.

 

[mark123]

With the mods you list plus cams you'll probably get mid 190s from the engine (not per tonne).

You either need to lose weight or spend big bucks.

 

[Munson]

Is it a Ph I? 165bhp/ton sounds a bit optimistic as a starting point. That's about what a 182 FF would be IF it had 182bhp, which by all acounts none do.

 

[keithjames84@gmail.c]

bit of a question for broster as well really, the jam sport inlet match is machining the inlets out to the gasket size, when i was reading the AWT site about there inlet match they dont do this as they think its to much creating a over size bore and isnt optimal for performance increase, so there is slightly smaller 15 thou i think dont quote me on that though.
Understandably machining out to the gasket size gives an easy template and guide to what size and if its 90% of the optimal solution then will be good enough in most cases and enables to do the hole thing by post as apposed to a matching car to car basis , especilay when the cylinder head it attaches to is cnc machined anyhow so veriation is small.
But would you think there is much differnce between one that is matched to the size of the gasket and one that is from AWT?

 

[keithjames84@gmail.c]

bit more of a rough estimate really off the top of my head 172/ 1.035 approx weight and approx power

 

[172Ben]

what power are you currently running?

 

[Munson]

bit more of a rough estimate really off the top of my head 172/ 1.035 approx weight and approx power

Yeah I get what you mean, but firstly it will probably more likely have around 165bhp, and if it's a ph II it will be heavier than 1100kg. Not knocking your motives fella, just making sure you're realistic about your starting point Pretty sure a ph II 172 works out at around 155bhp/ton, and that's asuming stock bhp of 172...which again by all accounts none have.

Anyway yeah, as everyone has said, stripping it bare is the most cost effective way of getting you on your way to the magic figure.

 

[Munson]

I imagine the best balance is going to be 1000kg and 200bhp, which is bound to involve cams/decat/remap/inlet match etc. at the very least?

 

[BenR]

Stock engine, just boost it.....its better VFM.

 

[Fred@BTM]

Mark is 200bhp per ton, virtually stock engine

 

[BenR]

cams, inlets, or bodies, standalone etc.......

A charged stock engine is more 'stock' than that lot lol.

 

[keithjames84@gmail.c]

yeah its a ph II i figured it would be rather optimistic starting point! so basically need to look at more then just breathing. i dont really want to go down the charging route looked at the k tec kit 6k alot of money.
though im sure fancy intake inlet match cams free flowing exhaust with manifold + de cat then a re map will be pricy but still prob less then the turbo kit.
Alot of these little mods im seeing are claiming 8bhp hear and there, im just wondering what people are getting from there engines when they are all combined.

That way i can start getting a budget in mind for getting bit more , i mean 200bhp ton is a nice sounding target but really im more intrested in getting the power band to start earlyer , my car seems to drive like a standard 2.0l below 4k then once get to 4k just takes off , would be nice if it comes in lower then that, stop needing to rag its nutts off all the time .

 

[Fred@BTM]

what with this idea that you have to mess about with the engine to hit 200bhp per ton??

look at Mark's car!!!

 

[BenR]

he wants full interior.

Read my boy!

 

[Fred@BTM]

sorry dad!

strip the car bare = free

leave the interior in and spend £5K

hum.......................

 

[BenR]

true....but i'm getting old.

I'd have a full interior.

 

[Fred@BTM]

Mark is about 60 *runs*

 

[keithjames84@gmail.c]

With the mods you list plus cams you'll probably get mid 190s from the engine (not per tonne).

You either need to lose weight or spend big bucks.

So basically with my original idea i would be looking at mid 190s with full interior say 1100kgs , will be 195/1.1 so ermm 177bpt not to bad .

 

[Munson]

Sell it and buy a super charged EP3 CTR?

 

[rich_1989]

2 k will see ya near enough 200bhp from TB's which will come with a omex, why so bothered about standard ecu? then its jus decent cams and propa set up and maybe moderate stripping such as spare wheel and various other s**t and some lightwight componants and wheels and you will be seing very near the 200 per ton mark imo

 

[keithjames84@gmail.c]

well only reason why i was saying about the original ecu is im presuming if that goes you looses some of the touches that come with the 172 like the trip computer and what not.
Just be nice to try keep some of the features and interior and comfort while trying to increase the power , but if it cant be done with a standard ecu then it cant be done.

 

[keithjames84@gmail.c]

2k is not a bad budget though ill have to have a look into the TB route. Obviously when looking at TB the length of the intakes is changing alot form standard, what does that do for the torque of the engine? will it just be all high end power ?

 

[Bazzon]

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=364943&page=9

Have a look at our ITB graph on there.

 

[Fred@BTM]

for £2K i'd sort the suspension and the brakes, wouldn't touch the engine

 

[ForceIndia]

2 k will see ya near enough 200bhp from TB's which will come with a omex, why so bothered about standard ecu? then its jus decent cams and propa set up and maybe moderate stripping such as spare wheel and various other s**t and some lightwight componants and wheels and you will be seing very near the 200 per ton mark imo

To drop to a genuine, ready to drive 1000kg 172, would take a bit more stripping than that.

 

[ForceIndia]

for £2K i'd sort the suspension and the brakes, wouldn't touch the engine

Do it to the derv. Do it.

 

[keithjames84@gmail.c]

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=364943&page=9

Have a look at our ITB graph on there.

just had a look at your link very nice car indeed , and i see your torque did inprove over the rev range with the tb , spose if you wanted peak to be lower in the range just a case of longer trumpets on there. but yeah very good results. alot of work gone into it must be well chuffed!

i had a look through your postings at hte beginng you mentioned your other mods , so for the car now your running the
tb's and new ecu
slightly differnt cams 420s
the powerflow exhaust , anything else?

 

[Bazzon]

just had a look at your link very nice car indeed , and i see your torque did inprove over the rev range with the tb , spose if you wanted peak to be lower in the range just a case of longer trumpets on there. but yeah very good results. alot of work gone into it must be well chuffed!

i had a look through your postings at hte beginng you mentioned your other mods , so for the car now your running the
tb's and new ecu
slightly differnt cams 420s
the powerflow exhaust , anything else?

Just a decat aircon removed then fully stripped.. There is somemore things we are thinking about but thats all for the moment.

 

[Barron]

Just a decat aircon removed then fully stripped.. There is somemore things we are thinking about but thats all for the moment.

and uprated injectors.

 

[2 live]

Hi guys ive got a 172 and is pretty much standard, it had a aftermarket exhaust on when i got it , though i dont think its anything special as its mild steel, and sits under the body work. So going to assume standard performance still.

Basically i have been thinking when the time comes to modification i would like to see if can get about 200bhp per ton out of this car with out doing anything crazy like turbos or supercharging. as standard is something like 165bhp per ton. so just need 35bhp per ton.


Ive been very tempted by the group buy on inlet matching, but thinking i may go for AWT inlet instead as my rents live in cambridgeshire so will be easyer when coming to do it or get it fitted.

Anyhow i was thinking , maybe a new inlet system viper maybe, ilet matching, 4 2 1 manifold sport can k tec stealth exhaust and a re map.
so basicaly working on the breathing.

what do you guys think these mods would get me ? and is it possible to get up to the 200bhp per ton mark while still keeping standard ecu?

cut the roof off, take the doors off, in fact just leave the floorpan and strut tops..200 bhp per ton easy then.

 

[Icarus]

Hi guys ive got a 172 and is pretty much standard, it had a aftermarket exhaust on when i got it , though i dont think its anything special as its mild steel, and sits under the body work. So going to assume standard performance still.

Basically i have been thinking when the time comes to modification i would like to see if can get about 200bhp per ton out of this car with out doing anything crazy like turbos or supercharging. as standard is something like 165bhp per ton. so just need 35bhp per ton.


Ive been very tempted by the group buy on inlet matching, but thinking i may go for AWT inlet instead as my rents live in cambridgeshire so will be easyer when coming to do it or get it fitted.

Anyhow i was thinking , maybe a new inlet system viper maybe, ilet matching, 4 2 1 manifold sport can k tec stealth exhaust and a re map.
so basicaly working on the breathing.

what do you guys think these mods would get me ? and is it possible to get up to the 200bhp per ton mark while still keeping standard ecu?

Good idea to keep the standard ECU IMHO, you maintain OBD2, CAN, DBW Throttle and as a result easy diagnostics for most garages, good cold start etc. etc. Standard ECU is easily capable of running a 200bhp F4R 730.

Viper type things aren't worth bothering with. Standard airbox with an ITG or similar panel filter in it or an ITG AB65 Airbox.

4-2-1 manifold ala 182 will improve midrange torque at the expense of top end power in my experience, as such I'd rule this out and keep your 4-1 172 manifold.

The biggest areas for gains are the inlet manifold (which is rubbish) and the cam profiles. With matched inlets and CAT428's you can see IRO 190bhp, maybe a touch over. Finding 10bhp more than that though with the standard inlet manifold and you'll be struggling.

Ben at AW has a great setup on the way that is being prototyped on my Cup and a Cup race car in the UAE, it maintains the standard DBW throttle butterfly and standard ECU, is a straight bolt on and with 428's will see 100bhp/tonne easily.

The other option is to start dumping bits of interior. I quite like having a road car though rather than a race car on the road. However chucking the rear seats out only takes 5 mins although it doesn't save a great deal of weight.

If you have a Cup then happy days, if not consider junking your air-con and going to a cup alternator setup. That'll save a fair bit of weight and remove the need for a 170 quid belt and tensioner kit everytime you need to change the aux belt.

Cheers
M

 

[Fred@BTM]

its £110 for the kit

and do you not respond to e-mails these days!

 

[Icarus]

It's gone down! ;-)

What e-mail? We have a mega aggresive spam checker, will make sure its not in there tomorrow.

Cheers
M

 

[Gez08]

Check out what they're doing with the clio 172 in the french car mag!! filter, gas flowed head, decat, stainless system, iridium plugs, omex ecu, catcams..useful info.