Airbag computer

[tidyclio]

I've posted a few question on here recently about immobiliser problems and it not starting. It went into Renault the other day and they phoned me yesterday and the girl says we looked into it and you need a new key but can't get the part until Monday so pick it up then at 5, no probs.

This morning got another phone call this time from who I think was the service manager asking if my car had been in an accident. Story goes that I set off the passenger seat airbag back in January and have replaced all the parts apart from the computer so told him this. He said well that's the fault it's bringing up on the computer and we can't proceed any further until it's gone.

My queries were why did somebody phone me saying it was the key and to this he said he had no idea.

Why did it work for 6 months no problems and he avoided the question.

I also made the point that obviously a code is going to show up about the airbag computer since it's been set off but he never made it clear if they could confirm this is definately why it isn't starting.

So I said I will get back to him first thing Monday and was wondering if before then anybody could answer me 2 questions.

1. Obviously the later Mk2 ph2 including mine have no inertia switch to cut the fuel in a bump so this must be integrated into the computer somehow. Does anybody know anything about this? I've had 2 airbags go off on it and the first time it ran no problems and the second time until now seemingly.

2. How much is an airbag computer?

Thanks in advance

 

[richy]

is/was your airbag/serv light on the dash? normally if the airbags have been triggered it leaves a permanent fault in the airbag computer which indicates it needs the computer replacing, this was the same on my mates old 172 which had a side impact and triggered the n/s airbags and required a new computer/airbags etc (doesnt mean that is always the case, but most common)

the computer is usually around the £200 mark but i havent checked on dialogys in ages and dont have access now untill monday at work.

if its just a key it needs this shouldnt be a problem to code as its coded to the UCH(computer under n/s dash), they should still be able to code keys in as its a different computer.

 

[tidyclio]

Yeah the service and airbag light have been on ever since it happened back in January. £200 I could maybe cope with if I knew changing it would get it started but i've been reading talk of £350.

They did say it was the key then somebody else phoned me today saying it was the airbag computer, the lack of communication isn't exactly confidence inspiring when I was told it had already been looked at.

I just thought that if the airbag computer was going to stop it starting it would have done it when the airbag went off.

 

[richy]

since the lights are on then it will need a computer for that to be sorted, as said on price im not sure tbh, also add labour for it to be fitted/configured etc

but as said that shouldnt effect it starting, what is the symptons of it not starting? does the immobiliser light flash quickly when u put the ignition on and crank not fire up?

 

[tidyclio]

Thought as much if I have to I will just send it to one of the people who reset them only downside to that is i've already paid £40 to have it towed once it will be another £40 back and if it turns out it's not the computer £40 back again!

It just every so often it seems to not start. The immobiliser light stays on solid red and the fuel pump is not priming. Sometimes it just seems to fire up out the blue but couldn't get it too at all the last few days. I've changed nearly all sensors engine wise and everything else that people recommend.

 

[bmh.01]

Its not the airbag computer preventing it from starting, I didn't have mine connected at all for a few days whilst I was working on the 1.6 and barring the lack of airbags and the serv and airbag light it didn't effect the running of the car.

Theres a place on ebay that'll reset your airbag computer for £60 instead of getting a new one.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/airbag-contro...91QQihZ002QQcategoryZ9889QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[tidyclio]

That's what I thought aswell. I guess the only question I need to answer now is would having a triggered airbag computer make it impossible for them to get any other faults out of the system?

Thanks for that link that might be where it ends up going.

 

[lemonnobby]

That aint going to have any affect on starting, or coding a key in. Air bag computers are £220 with VAT plus and hours fitting and programming.

 

[bmh.01]

An hours fitting for 4 bolts and 1 connector .

 

[quikshine]

The "SERV" light is on on my car.. When I got the car it was on as the drivers seat airbag was deployed at sometime before I was the owner.

Does this need a new computer so that this light goes out or can it simply be reset? Since then the seat has been repaired and a new airbag fitted.

Also when the "SERV" light is on will this stop the airbags from working should the car be involved in another accident? I wouldnt want them not to work should the worst ever happen.

Sorry to hi-jack this thread but I thought these were questions that would be useful to everyone.

cheers..

Ross

 

[edde]

The "SERV" light is on on my car.. When I got the car it was on as the drivers seat airbag was deployed at sometime before I was the owner.

Does this need a new computer so that this light goes out or can it simply be reset? Since then the seat has been repaired and a new airbag fitted.

Also when the "SERV" light is on will this stop the airbags from working should the car be involved in another accident? I wouldnt want them not to work should the worst ever happen.

Sorry to hi-jack this thread but I thought these were questions that would be useful to everyone.

You could have doen a search this has been covered before.

Yes you need either a nw computer or the one ones crack fault codes cleaing.

And yes airbags won't go off until you have the fault cleared.

 

[quikshine]

You could have doen a search this has been covered before.

Yes you need either a nw computer or the one ones crack fault codes cleaing.

And yes airbags won't go off until you have the fault cleared.

Thank you edde...

I did post my own tread about this but didnt really get the answers I was looking for.. And as I said I thought the questions I asked would be useful to other users, not just myself..

thanks for your help.

Ross

 

[tidyclio]

That aint going to have any affect on starting, or coding a key in. Air bag computers are £220 with VAT plus and hours fitting and programming.

The guy said he needed to computer replaced and then PROCEED from there by that wording it's like he's saying it probably isn't the computer but we need to change it first.

He said that is the fault coming up but assuming it's the key or the uch lost it's code would there be a fault code?Can they still check if it's recieving a code or not with the airbag fault code there then yeah?

 

[lemonnobby]

there will be a fault code due to the air bag, in the air bag system of the test, if your cars has problems starting i would even look in airbag computer it would be eirther immob, injection or uch, never heard of uch loosing a code.

 

[lemonnobby]

An hours fitting for 4 bolts and 1 connector .

We go on the times set by renault. Do you want a monkey to rush? or take his time not break anything and do it right.

 

[tidyclio]

I just heard that if the UCH is disconnected for a while they can need recoded and I had taken the fuse out for two weeks while I was on hols. It's intermittent though so i'm thinking it would either work all the time or never at all. The red immobiliser light stays on now.

Do you choose what the clip tests then or does it automatically test everything? Would it automatically check the key/immobiliser code is being recieved? Thanks for your help it's hard to get information about this and I need to phone the guy back tomorrow and having an understanding on it will help me know if the guy is talking crap or not.

 

[lemonnobby]

No when your no the clip, you go in to each seperate computer. i have never heard of the uch looseing codes, i disconnected my battery why i was away never done anything. when your in clip you can read if the key is in the iginition and it is validated and such if its not saying its in the ignition what we normally do is eirther get one of our own keys and swap the blades and try ir or borrow a decoder ring to try.

 

[tidyclio]

I had changed the decoder ring before it went in and it never helped. When I take the circuit board out the key the immobiliser lights flashes and when I put it back it stays on solid so I think it does recognise it. I've changed nearly every part i've been told it could everybody says if the light is on solid it can't be the key is that right?

Just seems weird the girl phoned me saying they had looked into it and it was the key then the service manager phoned me the next day and says he doesn't know why anybody phoned and said that.

 

[tidyclio]

Right just spoke to the guy again and what he is saying is that they're pretty sure the airbag computers can lock the injection computer. He is saying that it isn't letting them into the injection computer and that they can't go any further without changing the airbag computer but he can't be 100% sure this is the problem. I said is it not a bit stange it worked for so long then and he just said yeah it's a funny set up.

Anybody care to comment?

 

[richy]

the clip should be able to talk to the injection computer/airbag computer and all other computers if the airbag computer has locked itself due to impact, that wont stop it doing so, the most likely reason clip wont talk to the injection computer is if they have lost a feed/earth to the inj computer, or there is a multiplex system fault, sometimes its the clip version used and they may have to revert back to a older version! renault always say the lastest version should be do everything but often they wont be able to code this or that, or talk to certain computers/configurations!(useless eh!!)

the problem you are on about is most likely either they key(s) are playing up or the uch needs replacing, btw do you have a 2nd key and has this been checked>? is it just the same or does that work ok if you have one?

usually if the key has totally died then when you put the ignition on the immob light flash's rapidly as it does not recognise what key has been inserted!, they can use the clip to check the parameters to see if it recognise's the the key, they can see if they key is inserted/registered and validated.

can i ask which dealer you are using btw?

also lemonnobby1 who do you work for?? im guessing renault but what dealer

 

[tidyclio]

It's Reg Vardy Renault in Livingston just outside Edinburgh.

I don't have a 2nd key but I did ask if they had checked the key and he went away and got the guy who must be working on it to confirm then said something along the lines off we tried another plip but it still wouldn't start. I think this is crap as i'm sure the keys can only be used once and I doubt they would be able to try one that they are not charging me for.

It does work sometimes then just takes spells where it refuses to work for days it's confusing that's why I checked most stuff I could but without having the clip it's hard and with me not knowing to much about it i'm at there mercy really.

I've been left with no option really apart from to say to replace the airbag computer this is getting done tomorrow. He even said he can't guarantee it will work or that after changing it they will find anymore fault codes. I'd love to be able to argue my points with him but without knowledge of how the clip works like yourself or Lemonbobby the guy just says things I can't argue with as I don't know whether they are true or not. There are no speciallists around here either with the clip so I will just have to see what happens tomorrow might need some more advice then depending on what the outcome is.

 

[C.slicker]

Have you checked all the relays/fuses?

Do you hear a whine around the engine bay even when it doesn't start?

 

[tidyclio]

Yeah checked them all and swapped them for extras I had even tried WD40 on it no difference.

There is no whine that I can hear, are you meaning when i'm trying to turn it over?

Still waiting on the guy calling me to tell me how it went anyway if he isn't calling me to tell me it's fixed he better be calling me with a cheap solution.

 

[tidyclio]

Right just spoke to the guy and he's left me fuming. He says the airbag computer has been done and the cars ready to pick up and I asked how much I was due them and he said £534!! I asked how the hell it's this much and he said that for the airbag computer the hours labour to programe it and diagnosing it and also a new plip key.

I asked why the hell there is a new key after all the initial confusing off him knowing nothing about the key. He said the key was made up before anybody even phoned me on Friday going by the timesheet. He said the key deactivated the immobiliser but then the car still wouldn't start that's when they found the airbag problem and that it must have been linked.

I then asked so what if I put the old key in will the car start and he said no. I think the guy has fcuked me with this airbag computer and it really doesn't make much sense. Can anybody work out how that bill would come to that much?

 

[edde]

airbag computer the hours labour to programe it and diagnosing it and also a new plip key.

Can anybody work out how that bill would come to that much?

Airbag computer £350
Key £120 or so for all the bits.
£60 or so for the labour.

 

[lemonnobby]

also lemonnobby1 who do you work for?? im guessing renault but what dealer

I work for S J Cook and Sons,
I have a mate who works out are bodyshop he had a small prang and his airbag light was on this never caused this to happen. I have never heard of airbag computer locking injection systems, as richy said if they cant comunicate which injection then its down to the injection computer or its earth in most cases. Some versions of clip do not work with some models and you have to be very careful.

 

[richy]

ah i work for evans halshaw(was reg vardys!!)

the airbag computer wont have caused the non-start, i ran a 172 with locked airbag computer after a prang for 2month! ( i fixed it in the end tho, new computer and configured etc)

going off what you said tbh it sounds like all it needed was the key for the non-start, but as they have done a clip test they have found the airbag computer locked and also put down for this, why they told you it was this causing the fault i dont know!

also were u asked if the old key would work if u tryed then it wont unless they also coded it in at the same time(if it wasnt faulty), any keys to be coded must all be done at the same time otherwise they overwrite the ones not coded!

when you go to pick the car up they should explain the bill fully and what each cost is etc, if not ask them to, you will know exactly how much labour they have charged etc

 

[tidyclio]

Edde thanks the airbag computers must have come down in price though it was £185 plus the hours labour at £65. If it had been £350 I could understand it I work the parts includging the hours labour for the computer £365. Not sure if they include vat on there quotes probably not though it still doesn't really add up.

Thanks for all the help Rich and Lemonbobby i'm going to see him in the morning though it's hard to argue with him as he may just cover up exactly what has happened. I really need my car back so will have to pay it but if I do pay it would it then be to late to put a complaint into Renault customer services?

I have an old airbag computer in the garage that is locked after a crash. I'm really tempted to put it in the car and see if it still starts as this would prove they never needed to replace it I think. Would it be ok to try that it won't mess up any the coding for the new one will it?

 

[C.slicker]

If I were you I would do what you outline in the last para.

I think they are just bullshitting you to squeeze more money from you mate.

Sam

 

[tidyclio]

Yeah I think I will do it if Richy or Lemonbobby can confirm when I put the new one back in it will still work ok. Then I will be onto Renault customer services if i'm right and also complain about the lack of communication and how much of a mess the whole situation has become basically.

Think you are right on the second part though. Problem is I gave the ok for the airbag computer without being aware they had made up the key. The key is the part I never authorised but apparantly the part that I need so can't really tell them to stick it. Think I will just have to pay it get my car back and take it up with Renault.

 

[richy]

is the airbag computer you have spare off this car? the problem with fitting it if it isnt is that the airbag computer is one of the 2 main multiplex computers on clios, and has to be specificly configured to the car otherwise it wont work.

if it is and you do decide to try and fit it, make sure you disconnect the battery and leave it for about a hour first, you are suppose to lock the airbag computers with the clip to prevent aciidently triggering all airbags/pre-tensioners! so unplug it before unbolting it and moving the computer!

one of the techs didnt lock a computer and set off all the airbags/pre-tensioners etc ! expensive mistake lol

also you can ring customer services and ask them, what year is your car regarding warrenty, im guessing its out of warrenty??

but customer services sometimes will contribute or send you vouchers etc

 

[tidyclio]

No it's from another car. Really though if they are saying the airbag computer stops the car starting if I was to unplug the new one it shouldn't start right?

The part about setting off the airbags puts me off and to get access to it I will have to have paid the bill so probably to late for any comeback then anyway, might give it a miss.

It is out of warranty now unfortunetly. It's a 52 plate.

I spoke to the service manager again today and he is not prepared to investigate or find any solution or even a goodwill gesture so i've left the car there. I have phoned customer services today and gone through the whole story with them and they agree something doesn't sound right so they are going to contact the garage and get back to me tomorrow. I hope they have unbiased technical experts they can ask about the airbag computer. Regardless of that though they have lied and I don't believe they are not trying to rip me off somehow so the car is staying there until something is worked out.

It's a shame because up until now i've been happy with my car but after all this and the amount of dealer complaints and immobiliser problems i've read as much as i'd love something like a 197 I just don't think I could go for another Renault.

 

[bmh.01]

The airbag computer does not have any part in the immobilser, unplug it and the car will still start. Take it out and show them if they keep spinning you along.

 

[tidyclio]

I did think of that aswell hopefully though Renault customer services will have somebody who can confirm either way if it can or can't do this. I would be happy to pay the bill but not when they are trying to lie and rip me off.

The only thing that I can think of though is that when they did away with the inertia switches and started with the multiplexing is that somehow the airbag computers can act as an inertia switch aswell. Even if that was the case it worked no problem for months but i'm just trying to second guess what they may try to get out of this.

 

[tidyclio]

Hi again Rich or Lemonbobby I have been into Renault today and asked for a full investigation report and all I have been given is a printout of the display on the clip showing the airbag module needs changed. I have asked for the printouts to show that the original key was not recognised/unlocking the immobiliser and the one after with the new key to show what difference it made. The idiot service manager said I could have them but it was to late today but i'm going back tomorrow for them so we will see if he gives me them.
I have also asked for a printout of the page that shows either evidence that the airbag computer had locked the injection computer or a printout that says it could not get into the injection computer.
He did say he was going to get the first lot so my question is when you go through any diagnostics on a car is it all saved i.e all the pages you have seen on the clip?

I am entitled to an investigation report Renault UK tell me but he has not provided this. I am going to ask for one but if it's not satisfactory then say for example when you are diagnosing a fault like this and replacing parts do you guys keep a job card that has step by step what you have done?