ALL CUP OWNERS

[pete172]

hi folks

just got home from renault. i took my cup in for them to sort out the noise from the rear brakes and i too had a brake limit valve with missing bits. they checked 3 other new cups that where there and they were the same, but had never been on the road as they had no reg plates on.

i showed the service manager a few print outs from here to show its a common problem. so anyone with a cup you HAVE got to take it in to be checked, it is dangerous.

which brings me to the second part. i crashed my cup a couple of months ago cup trying to stop in the wet. i said at the time and still do that i had not done anything different to usual. i just tried to stop.

i am going to write to renault and my insurance with as much information as possible. so if anyone who has taken there cup in about the brakes or is about to could you please email me information about what was wrong and the outcome. not after names or personal info just faults and dealership taken to for fault find.

thanks for any help guys. not losing my no claims over renault. no way

email address is in my profile

 

[kefkef]

Is it possible to find out if the bits are missing just by looking at the cup?

 

[pete172]

sorry mate i dont know. all he said was that a rod? was missing that joins the valve to the axle. when the car is loaded it pushes the valve via the rod to change the bias from 75/25 to 50/50. so mine is set 50/50 all the time.

i will try and get a photo of my valve tomorrow then people can compare it to their cups.

but 90 % sure they will all be the same

 

[Rich-D]

Me thinks Ill be having a look under the car tomorrow...

 

[pete172]

it was one of your posts i took with me Rich-D. have you got yours sorted.

got the cup badges on at last which is good for another 5 bhp just a shame ive got to drive like a pensioner

 

[NickB]

after reading these posts i asked Lookers at Chester to check on this. Mycar hasnt got the rod and they checked with Reno and ACTIS and they say the cup doesnt have one.

Not too happy with this, Ive had a couple of big moments with the back almost coming round braking v.hard. How would one know if it has the wrong valve fitted?

 

[Cuppy 172]

Yes, you can find out if the part is missing. The service manager put mine on the ramps and showed me. On the rear right hand brake (behind the wheel) underneath the car they should be a small spring (not very technical). If that is missing you are fcuked. Get it changed or you will crash

Hope this info helps

 

[swelch]

You will see I have put a couple of recent posts about this. Reno did not believe me, but because I was insistant that they booked it in as it was dangerous, they did and said I was right and it was a safety issue. Valve replaced now and working fine. Braking characteristics are very different now. You can feel the weight transfer to the front wheels when braking.

 

[D-CUP]

Are you sure this is a fault? If the CUPs dont have that part then maybe it is because they want them to have different braking charactersitics?

 

[CHRIS172CUP]

Have you got a clear picture of what I could look for? I just had a look underneath and didnt really have a clue.

 

[RobFenn]

Why would you want the rear brakes taking 50% of the strain? Theyre tiny!

 

[Rich-D]

Quote: Originally posted by pete172 on 17 October 2003


it was one of your posts i took with me Rich-D. have you got yours sorted.

Had my reg numbewr checked on the ACTIS system and its all clear...

The "clunk" noise you can hear from the back of the car is the bias valve, but they all do it (apparently) so just becuase your Cup makes that sound it does not necessarily mean it has a problem.

 

[Rich-D]

Quote: Originally posted by Cuppy 172 on 23 October 2003


On the rear right hand brake (behind the wheel) underneath the car they should be a small spring (not very technical). If that is missing you are fcuked

We could do with a pic of this for people to reference...

 

[TheCake]

Yes a picture of with/without spring would help immensely.

Thanks

SImon

 

[paulous2k]

Just checked mine (brand new, only got it on monday). Cant see any spring. Now Im worried! I really would like to see a photo!! I reckon my dealer will laugh at me if I just say Ive heard on the internet that there should be a spring on there somewhere!

 

[swelch]

If the brakes are 50/50 they are wrong !. That is the whole point of having them checked. 50/50 braking is for ABS as it is able to stop the wheels locking up.

The reason the handling is unsafe braking on corners at speed is because the rear brakes are operating too hard, thus dragging the rear end and bordeline on locking them up. Not good if you are on the track. The brake compensator valve (if it is the correct one) will bias the brakes with the emphasis on the fronts. This shifts the weight forward, while braking, on to the front wheels giving better grip, it will also inturn offer a tad of oversteer. The back wheels at this point are braking with miniman effort just to help keep the rear wheels behind you with good traction.

I hope this makes it all clearer.

Just to clarify: would you really want to carry a bit too much speed into a corner (worse when wet) have to brake and as the rear wheels lighten lock them up because they are getting as much braking force as the fronts ? I thought not.

 

[pete172]

i still dont know whats happening with my cup. renault got back in touch with me saying that according to renault uk and renault france, my brakes are as designed. the valve is not supposed to be attached to the axle as the renault mechanic told me during the check. they have told me that they can replace the valve if it is ott noisey but otherwise should be ok. so still feel p1ssed off with the car as it doesnt feel right when braking, feels like the back end wants to overtake me.

not heard anything about a spring before but i will ask the garage to check

just hope a cup owner doesnt get hurt or ends up hurting someone else whilst renault continue to scratch their heads

 

[Rich-D]

Quote: Originally posted by swelch on 23 October 2003


If the brakes are 50/50 they are wrong !

Yup, it should be a 60/40 split front/rear...

 

[paulous2k]

*PLEASE* can someone give a definitive answer as to how to check for this? Preferably while the car is stationery! I dont want to discover I have the problem as Im going sideways at 50mph.

Can someone who has the correct part fitted please take a digi photo and post it on here?

 

[Mike@Rentech]

This is a rather bad safety issue, To check all you have to do is look at the rear axle on you car, you should have a link (on the nearside from memory) that goes from the axle to the body of the car, if you have no link or are not sure then get it down to your dealer ASAP, When I inspected swelchs clio cup I was rather shocked that the link was missing, but as he said we sorted the problem out as soon as we could and yes it make a load of diiffence to the braking system.

Get it checked and have the item replaced it is covered under warranty, Im going to let Renault technical know about this problem as it is a potential life treatening fault , hopefully a recall will be released.
We all know that the cup has this problem but if no one informs Renault about it then they cant do nothing about it.
When I get another cup in for a service or any other problem this particular item will be high on my list of items to check even if the customer has not asked for it.

 

[Mike@Rentech]

Oh an one other thing I will take a picture of mine and post it on here so you people know what to look for.

 

[paulous2k]

Thankyou! A photo would be excellent.

 

[Rich-D]

Quote: Originally posted by Mike172sport on 23 October 2003

Oh an one other thing I will take a picture of mine and post it on here so you people know what to look for.

Good lad...

 

[aledw]

Yup! I can see it, or rather see where its meant to be, on the beam, in line with the rear silencer, theres a small bracket pointing forwards. Up above theres a mounting bracket with a large hole topmost. I guess the valve should be located in between the two brackets...

 

[paulous2k]

Found the same thing on mine... nothing between the two brackets. Ill wait for the photo to confirm this is the right thing though.

 

[Jim172CUP]

i got a load of "snotty woman on the service desk" this afternoon when i phoned up to check theyd got me booked in for Wed. I asked them to look into this area for me and she said well is it broken?? whats wrong with it?? I got a bit short with her and said well i dont know im not a mechanic i just want you to look into brake bias valve and see its there/working.

Needless to say they hadnt got me down as needing a courtesy car, mailto:tw@ts">tw@ts, glad i checked as id be stuck not being able to get into work.

 

[chris79]

please get a photo someone !! thanks to everyone who contributes to this thread, you might have saved someones life or stopped them crashing.

 

[swelch]

Mike172 sport - If you are the chap that worked on my cup the last couple of times I have asked to see you but you were not in on the couple of days I popped in. Just wanted to thank you for sorting out my CUP on the last 2 visits. It has been suffering from a drop in performance for months, well, ever since it was overfilled with oil at 3000miles (bout 1.5 inches on dipstick) and it wasnt booked in to sort it for about 2 weeks. Not sure what you did (I now what I listed for you) but it has been going like Sh*t off a shovel again for the last few weeks. Im well chuffed with it agian, I was strating to feel quite down about it.

Thanks again !

To other Cliosport uses:- Listen to Mike172sport as as far as I am concerned he knows about 172s / Cups. Its nice to see a Reno Mechanic / RTE that has a 172 of his own.

 

[visceral]

is that Mike in Warrington?

 

[swelch]

If it was my car then it is on the sout coast

 

[abbs_172]

This is bad I ve had my car back to reno on a number of occasions and they try to tell me there is no such probblem and the noise is due to the banging from the suspension turrets, which have now been fixed on the actis up date!

So after a long discussion with a reno women they promise me there is nothing wrong, however, she was only a receptionist!

So if anyone could show me a actis update letter regarding this problem it would help my cause greatly as I fear I have this problem!!!

This is very worrying as I nearly re-ended someone in the wet yesterday!

 

[TheCake]

Picture someone PLEASE!

 

[ak_uk]

Someone had posted a scan of this update but I cant find it. My car is at Herds in Hounslow - they didnt seem to know what the Aktis/Actis?? system was.....

 

[Rich-D]

See my new thread with a pic and where to look...

 

[Rich-D]

Quote: Originally posted by Mike172sport on 23 October 2003


This is a rather bad safety issue, To check all you have to do is look at the rear axle on you car, you should have a link (on the nearside from memory) that goes from the axle to the body of the car, if you have no link or are not sure then get it down to your dealer ASAP, When I inspected swelchs clio cup I was rather shocked that the link was missing, but as he said we sorted the problem out as soon as we could and yes it make a load of diiffence to the braking system.

Get it checked and have the item replaced it is covered under warranty, Im going to let Renault technical know about this problem as it is a potential life treatening fault , hopefully a recall will be released.
We all know that the cup has this problem but if no one informs Renault about it then they cant do nothing about it.
When I get another cup in for a service or any other problem this particular item will be high on my list of items to check even if the customer has not asked for it.

Just to let you all know that I have checked with Renault technical and also checked the ACTIS system and the link is NOT meant to be there on a Cup!!!

Mike, you should not have fitted the link to the bias valve on the Cups, it aint meant to be there and I have see na Renault tech note with my own eyes that states this...

 

[Dootchy]

Ill be driving all the way down from Scotland to let Mike172 do any work mine needs!! Breath of fresh air to hear a Reno techie having a 172 of his own.

 

[swelch]

Well my Cup now has it fitted (by Mike172sport) and I tell you it now feels safe when braking and you can feel that the brakes are biased towards the front now. A totaly different car to drive. So unless I am told it has to come out for safety reason it will stay firmly in place thank you very much !

Anyone at donnington can have a look at mine if they like.