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Anyone done standalone mgmt on valver/willy
- Thread starter Mark One
- Start date
haha, sorry Bex!!!
and yeah, Craig seems very good as well, but if you're getting an Omex there's only one UK approved dealer, fitter and mapper, and that's Andy.
For cams you can run shrick or CAT. Still yet to see any evidence of shrick being worth the extra money as they use weird cam measurements so hard to compare directly, but CAT are the ones to go for imo, the blow the likes of Piper and Kent out the water. Speak to Andy about the spec's, as the ones I had in my old Williams are your best bet.
Oh, noticed you have a 1.8 too, this seems like a good time to put a Megane F7R bottom end in for a massive power increase. With the cams as well as Omex and breathing mods I reckon you'll be knocking on the door of 190bhp and a s**t load of usable torque
and yeah, Craig seems very good as well, but if you're getting an Omex there's only one UK approved dealer, fitter and mapper, and that's Andy.
For cams you can run shrick or CAT. Still yet to see any evidence of shrick being worth the extra money as they use weird cam measurements so hard to compare directly, but CAT are the ones to go for imo, the blow the likes of Piper and Kent out the water. Speak to Andy about the spec's, as the ones I had in my old Williams are your best bet.
Oh, noticed you have a 1.8 too, this seems like a good time to put a Megane F7R bottom end in for a massive power increase. With the cams as well as Omex and breathing mods I reckon you'll be knocking on the door of 190bhp and a s**t load of usable torque
To answer the question (sales pitches aside)...
Theres a number of managment systems available to suit all budgets. Most people will suggest a system based on merits supported by who they are "in bed with", and not necessarily the technical advantages/disadvantages of a system. Personally I use KMS and Emerald depending on the application and budget of the customer. Both are very good value for money, and other powerful engine control which exceeds the requirments of 99.9% of people using this forum. There many other systems out there, but I find these two have the best balance of software control and hardware functionality.
Fitting is relatively straight forward, so long as you look at it in a methodical manner, and take it for what it is......a bunch of 20 odd wires all going to a specific place/sensor in the engine bay...so if you follow the wiring diagram and have an ounce of common sense/technical ability, you wont go far wrong. This is from my point of view with experience of fitting many systems..."its easy for you to say" may be applicable, but If youve got any querries just pm/email for a bit of advice.
As for cams, theres a couple of decent brands available. I use/supply Catcams. They offer several "off-the-shelf" grinds for the F7 engines, depending on the spec of the rest of the engine. By using after-market engine control your ditching one of the limiting factors, which is the MAP sensor. Beyond this you will encounter mechanical restraints, though none of which cant be remedied if your budget allows.
Hope this helps.
Theres a number of managment systems available to suit all budgets. Most people will suggest a system based on merits supported by who they are "in bed with", and not necessarily the technical advantages/disadvantages of a system. Personally I use KMS and Emerald depending on the application and budget of the customer. Both are very good value for money, and other powerful engine control which exceeds the requirments of 99.9% of people using this forum. There many other systems out there, but I find these two have the best balance of software control and hardware functionality.
Fitting is relatively straight forward, so long as you look at it in a methodical manner, and take it for what it is......a bunch of 20 odd wires all going to a specific place/sensor in the engine bay...so if you follow the wiring diagram and have an ounce of common sense/technical ability, you wont go far wrong. This is from my point of view with experience of fitting many systems..."its easy for you to say" may be applicable, but If youve got any querries just pm/email for a bit of advice.
As for cams, theres a couple of decent brands available. I use/supply Catcams. They offer several "off-the-shelf" grinds for the F7 engines, depending on the spec of the rest of the engine. By using after-market engine control your ditching one of the limiting factors, which is the MAP sensor. Beyond this you will encounter mechanical restraints, though none of which cant be remedied if your budget allows.
Hope this helps.
ValverInBits
cheers stan
That seems like really sound advice mate, much aprechiated.
I would love to go emerald, but I've seen the prices, and it's really out of the equation.
Will look at KMS also.
I have very limited experience with management and I need to get a feel for the market and what i'm looking for.
All the advice really helps, cheers
Anyone know what am i likely to pay for OMEX or KMS? I know they are not likely to be a cheap as something like megasquirt but then I think megasquirt requires a lot of putting-together.
That seems like really sound advice mate, much aprechiated.
I would love to go emerald, but I've seen the prices, and it's really out of the equation.
Will look at KMS also.
I have very limited experience with management and I need to get a feel for the market and what i'm looking for.
All the advice really helps, cheers
Anyone know what am i likely to pay for OMEX or KMS? I know they are not likely to be a cheap as something like megasquirt but then I think megasquirt requires a lot of putting-together.
Stan, works both ways, I'm sure you tuners will only recommend what you sell also 
lol
tbh the Omex is the most proven stand alone system and as with most things in life, you pay for what you get. Omex is probably the most expensive Point8... pretty certain it is.
Emerald I've only ever heard bad things about, but I've never used one. 2 live has one on his throttle bodied Williams.
loltbh the Omex is the most proven stand alone system and as with most things in life, you pay for what you get. Omex is probably the most expensive Point8... pretty certain it is.
Emerald I've only ever heard bad things about, but I've never used one. 2 live has one on his throttle bodied Williams.
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seriously though, I'd imagine half of that depends on the mapper and who fitted it and wired it all lol
edit: jon!
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Most proven in what respect??!
Unlike many people, I recommend/sell/USE what I believe works best for a situation. Not just based on business partners, cost prices/deals etc. Im not denying Omex is good, but unproven statements like "omex is most proven" make me laugh. Yes you pay for what you get, but the systems ive mentioned do the job just as well as Omex, so you may aswell save yourself £100 in the process!
If I remember rightly, you and Mark (and a few others im sure) have had problems with Omex, or rather Omex fitted/calibrated at GDI. Now im not slagging anyone/thing...but that doesnt bode well for sales let alone functionality?
And as for "worlds only Omex approved mapper"...well, lol, Dave Walker only recommends the bloke who maps my engines (or whos dyno I use)...so should I use that in attempt to gain custom?!
I understand your going to be biased as your friend Andy sells them, but lets not start bitching, the lad asked for advice, not to be fed a load of blurb to gain extra sales.
Unlike many people, I recommend/sell/USE what I believe works best for a situation. Not just based on business partners, cost prices/deals etc. Im not denying Omex is good, but unproven statements like "omex is most proven" make me laugh. Yes you pay for what you get, but the systems ive mentioned do the job just as well as Omex, so you may aswell save yourself £100 in the process!
If I remember rightly, you and Mark (and a few others im sure) have had problems with Omex, or rather Omex fitted/calibrated at GDI. Now im not slagging anyone/thing...but that doesnt bode well for sales let alone functionality?
And as for "worlds only Omex approved mapper"...well, lol, Dave Walker only recommends the bloke who maps my engines (or whos dyno I use)...so should I use that in attempt to gain custom?!
I understand your going to be biased as your friend Andy sells them, but lets not start bitching, the lad asked for advice, not to be fed a load of blurb to gain extra sales.
Emerald are around the circa 550+vat mark off the top of my head, and KMS is 470+vat inc their own coil-pack.
You wont really get any cheaper for hardware worth talking about.
See if you can find the 2-piece review on KMS in "Race Engine Tech"
periodical, that will open your eyes as to what these systems are capable of
Most proven on Clio's if we are to be anal then, but the fact is all the biggest power Clio's run them. You are saying these other ones are just as good, so hows that any different from you plugging something you sell? I'm a customer, I dont work for GDI or get paid by GDI, so I'd say I'm more impartial than someone recommending a product they are trying to get off their shelf whilst quoting prices! I mean are you for real!? lol
Andy's been in the tuning game before you went to college and has used the Emerald and his opinion echo's all the others I've heard who have used them, so I'd imagine he's picked Omex for a good reason. Either way, it's on my car and most other cars on here that run standalone also use them and I've had no issues with it, so that's my pick like it or lump it. I've not slagged you or any other makes off yet you seem more concerned in taking pot shots at another tuner to make yourself look good... sorry youth, it only makes you look unprofessional and desperate.
Making comments that I've had problems with it and trying to show it up as unrealiable just shows your age, naivity and unprofessional attitude, which wont get you very far in business. I've not had a problem with the Omex, it was a crank and air temp sensor that failed, but Omex kindly upgraded the ECU free of charge anyway. Your starting to sound like another know it all tuner type, when the lad has simply asked for a recommendation on a stand alone system and my recommendation differs to yours. Strange you have no issue with me recommending Cat cams
I gain nothing out of saying Omex, you stand to make money from plugging your business, so how you can have the arrogance to accuse me of plugging things for some kind of gain is just ridiculous. I've simply provided my opinion based on experience of practical application. I've driven 17k hassle free now on my Omex and I'm recommending a tuner with more experience than you. Sorry if this makes you feel insecure, but actions speak louder than words, so I'll wait for your cars to be featured and have tuning advice columns to be featured month after month in magazines which I'm sure you dont do because you're bigger than that already
So the only b**ching has been your attempts to make someone else look incompetent and yourself look good in the process, but reading between the lines I think anyone smart enough can see what you are doing and will just find it unprofessional, but I've seen it before. Small companies using whatever they can use to try and gain favour and advantages. Admirable, but pathetic all the same.
And Jon isn't running a DTA, it's either an Emerald or whatever comes with the Webber Alpha kit, which I thought was Emerald. Guess not by the sounds of it.
Im not trying to do anything mate, read between whatever lines you want.
I just find it frustrating when I read between your lines.....
In any case...we seem to be getting each others backs up here, so I'll do the adult ( ) thing, and leave it there.
Yes your right actually, Jon is running Webcon.
I just find it frustrating when I read between your lines.....
In any case...we seem to be getting each others backs up here, so I'll do the adult (
) thing, and leave it there.Yes your right actually, Jon is running Webcon.
One final thing...as for different ecu's...I could guarantee you could drive 5 different cars with 5 different ECU's, and if they were all mapped properly, you/I/any one else WOULDNT be able to tell the difference.
Thats the main thing that winds me up when people give hype for such products without any sturdy info.....
And as for power...explain to me how an Omex ecu will make more power than any other capable ecu?
Thats the main thing that winds me up when people give hype for such products without any sturdy info.....
And as for power...explain to me how an Omex ecu will make more power than any other capable ecu?
OMEX isn't exactly a market leader, i think Motec might piss on most stuff going
after the experiences i've had with omex i wouldn't use them again, nothing wrong with their products though
Emerald and KMS are very very good
an ecu has f**k all to do with "power output", at the end of the day you could have 5grands worth of motec gear on board and it could be mapped by a complete mong, waste of time
its like buying coilovers and then not setting them up properly
after the experiences i've had with omex i wouldn't use them again, nothing wrong with their products though
Emerald and KMS are very very good
an ecu has f**k all to do with "power output", at the end of the day you could have 5grands worth of motec gear on board and it could be mapped by a complete mong, waste of time
its like buying coilovers and then not setting them up properly
IF they are mapped properly then yeah, but top end ECU's give more functionality over others.
No ones hyped anything Stan, the lad asked for info on someone running standalone on a Mk1, I gave him an example and said Omex based on my time with the 600 unit. No one ever said it will make more power, but that's subjective, as I could take my car to someone else get it mapped, take it back to Andy and make 10bhp for example.
Fred, totally agree RE: the coilover thing, best £2-300 I ever spent!
As far as im concerned an engine/ecu is only as good as who ever mapped it. though as stan says the ecus's he has recommended are both proven to work, as is omex, but omex is also £600+ compared to 550 for kms.
Yup thats right functionality is the main difference.
KMS and Emerald and Omex all have "the usual" boost control, traction control, anti-lag, full throttle shift. Emerald and KMS both have adaptive mapping facilities...Omex 600 doesnt have this. Omex does have datalogging (i dont know how many chanels, or time limits)...Emerald and KMS dont have this.
So based on the above, its safe to say all three which have been mentioned are up to the job of 99.9999999% of clio owners (and I'd extend that to all marques in all honesty).
Out of the 3, the Emeralds software IMO is the easiest to use (this is as important as the functionality when fitting/mapping).
So after that we have price. KMS offers best value for money IMO, second would be Emerald, then Omex.
So in short, you pays your money you takes your choice.
The way I read it you were bigging up the Omex system based on no solid evidence. If you disagree, thats fine...im just saying what I personally think.
If you read what I originally put which led you to go off on one you'll see I didn't 'big' anything up, I never said it was the best, I just said what I use and what I have seen used on a Mk1. If I'd seen a APD car with standalone I'd have mentioned that too, but I haven't, so didn't.
From a technical point of view I dont know what does what over another ECU, all I know is that full throttle mapping to go fast can be done on even the shittest of ECU's. I like my Omex because when I start the car up it doesn't matter how hot/cold the weather is, it starts up first time everytime, idles fine and drives fine. I'm perfectly happy considering it's only ever been road mapped since I've had it and drives and idles sweet. Will be even better after more mods :evil:
From a technical point of view I dont know what does what over another ECU, all I know is that full throttle mapping to go fast can be done on even the shittest of ECU's. I like my Omex because when I start the car up it doesn't matter how hot/cold the weather is, it starts up first time everytime, idles fine and drives fine. I'm perfectly happy considering it's only ever been road mapped since I've had it and drives and idles sweet. Will be even better after more mods :evil:
renault clio: resale value £100.
oh wait its usually well over priced
£10,000
oh wait its usually well over priced
£10,000
Not top trumps lad, just making the point that others have been used with success!
You do talk some absolute rubish. Can you back that up with anything other than a personal vendetta you seem to have?
I pay GDI to do work on my car just as Laura does. I've spent a fair old amount there (none of which is your business or anyone elses) for work to be done and have a reasonable technical grasp based on knowing what does and doesn't make a quick Clio. I've got the Omex software and deal with obscure software all the time, I work with it, so while I cant and wouldn't dream of mapping an engine I do have a fair idea of what is involved.
I can also tell you that the majority of Clio Sport's highest power F series engines are all running an Omex too. GDI's 182, mine, yozza's 172, luckys, awt white 16v, foxen etc etc ALL run on Omex. There are faster cars due to things like having no weight etc, but these are some of the highest output engines in the club whether you like it or not Mark.
Bex has also said nothing about the Omex to promote it other than she has one on her car and loves it, so I dont really see what your problem is... well I do, you're a tool :rasp: hugs and kisses
lol @ all that^^^^^^^^^^^^
no one seems to have mentioned dta. another decent standalone thats well proven in motorsports.
stan n jesus......chill man.
but to be fair jon , you dont have the experience of living with or fitting a standalone to the mk1......which is what the guys asking about tbh.
to whoever posted the original question....sorry forgot your name reading through all the BS lol.....
depends how far your taking the engine as a whole in my opinion. yes my throttle bodied williams runs a standalone, wen its running the bodies, when its on the std inlet, i use a remapped std ecu.
if your on a budget, and dont plan much more than simple breathing mods, poss slightly higher lift cam etc, then id recommend getting your ecu mapped to suit those mods. standalone, imo, is alright, and will be better the more mods added, but a simple remapped ecu will suffice. and be a lot cheaper, dont forget, looms etc will more often than not be extra cost.
my other williams 1 was running 260 cams, reworked valves, it ran perfectly well with the remapped ecu, and is in fact still reknowned as 1 of the quickest in uk.
the ecu was remapped by wayne, aka chip wizards. top guy, knows his s**t , no BS figures, well worth sounding out if you want independant unbiased advice on what to use also.
oh...im not a tuner......dont sell anyones products.....dont often recommend any tuner as imo they all out for a buck, some more so than others, stan is very good, and competitvely priced. knows the mk1s almost as well as me
seriously tho....id look into what spec ur engines going to be before deciding.
no one seems to have mentioned dta. another decent standalone thats well proven in motorsports.
stan n jesus......chill man.
but to be fair jon , you dont have the experience of living with or fitting a standalone to the mk1......which is what the guys asking about tbh.
to whoever posted the original question....sorry forgot your name reading through all the BS lol.....
depends how far your taking the engine as a whole in my opinion. yes my throttle bodied williams runs a standalone, wen its running the bodies, when its on the std inlet, i use a remapped std ecu.
if your on a budget, and dont plan much more than simple breathing mods, poss slightly higher lift cam etc, then id recommend getting your ecu mapped to suit those mods. standalone, imo, is alright, and will be better the more mods added, but a simple remapped ecu will suffice. and be a lot cheaper, dont forget, looms etc will more often than not be extra cost.
my other williams 1 was running 260 cams, reworked valves, it ran perfectly well with the remapped ecu, and is in fact still reknowned as 1 of the quickest in uk.
the ecu was remapped by wayne, aka chip wizards. top guy, knows his s**t , no BS figures, well worth sounding out if you want independant unbiased advice on what to use also.
oh...im not a tuner......dont sell anyones products.....dont often recommend any tuner as imo they all out for a buck, some more so than others, stan is very good, and competitvely priced. knows the mk1s almost as well as me
seriously tho....id look into what spec ur engines going to be before deciding.
