Rusty Cup
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182
davo172
ClioSport Club Member
TCR'd 172
Wth correct offset and a low weight (I run pro race 1.2) wheel and not silly low handling is better than 16s.
mine Does NOT tramline either
Please explain how a 17" wheel has LESS grip than a 16" wheel when they run same tyres size !!!
both 205 's,:S
makes no sense to me AT ALL same surface area in contact with ground should equal same grip on same tyres ??
IS this not obvious or am I missing something ??
Evo 5 RS
Excessive tramlining from lower profile tyres especially where the tyre does not have enough flex and the force is transfered into the wheel rim, this is where tramlining will be detectable from the steering wheel. You basically steer and get very little feedback, not as much as you would normally.
Basically your car will handle like a bag of s**t when cornering
Basically your car will handle like a bag of s**t when cornering
phase 1 flamer 172
Have to say i think 15 inch rims on a clio do look too small, i will probably be keeping mine because as said tyres in this size are cheapest. like the look of 17,inch better, and yes the ride on low profiles will be harsh but dont see why they offer less grip, suspect competition cars run larger dia wheels as this allows for bigger brakes.
Evo 5 RS
Have you seen a mk2 Clio competition car with 17" alloys?
All cars tramline. Depends on just how much you notice it...I'm just saying running lower profile tyres to fit 17"s on is going to give you a whole lot more
182
i would say that the less the tyre flexes the better it would be? Obviously undsteer would be a major factor! so smaller wheels larger aspect ratio'd tyres would cause poor handling also due to how the tyre rolls/flexes also causing understeer??
^^something like that lol
seems like there is no winner in wheel size its just down to personal choice/ following others and the size of your wallet for tyre replacement
imo 16s and 17s look alot better than 15s unless its on its arse in which can also cause handling problems on the road but is awesome on track
^^something like that lol
seems like there is no winner in wheel size its just down to personal choice/ following others and the size of your wallet for tyre replacement
imo 16s and 17s look alot better than 15s unless its on its arse in which can also cause handling problems on the road but is awesome on track
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RB 182 Cup
A certain amount of tyre flex helps grip and also assisting in warming the tyre up to temp quicker.
A lower aspect ration / less sidewall flex will also mean a less progressive break away when you reach the limit of the tyre grip. In the wet this could range between alarming and expensive!
A lower aspect ration / less sidewall flex will also mean a less progressive break away when you reach the limit of the tyre grip. In the wet this could range between alarming and expensive!
Evo 5 RS
No, the less flex there is the more likely it will tramline. Not sure this is the greatest example but imagine rolling a penny in the middle of the road, it will follow the layout and camber, basically it's a similar affect with tramlining. Obviously with your tyres it's not THAT bad but the lower the profile the worse the affects will be, especially on a lighter car (than they were intended for)
182
^^great example
A right can of worms this thread lol.
good discussion though
also the effects of tramling can be down to tyre pressures right and alot of other factors.
but you can't exactly lower pressures in low profile tyres on the road to gain abit of flex/grip due to rim damage,but would it work on track?
i have lost myself:S
RB 182 Cup
I also see someone has mentioned unsprung weight, cheap heavy big wheels are a surefire way to ruin the handling and feel of a car.
Every 1kg of unsprung weight is equivalent to approximately 4kg of sprung weight.
If you increase your wheel weight (unsprung weight) it will mean that the engine has to work harder to rotate / accelerate the wheel and the brakes will have to work harder to slow the rotation. Heavier wheels will also numb the response of the shock absorbers / springs which means your tyres are not in contact with the ground as much as they could / should be.
I've gone from standard 16" 182 rims to 15" Clio Williams Speedlines which only weight about 7kg as apposed to 9.6kg of the standard and I really noticed the difference. The car feels so much lighter on its toes. Ignoring the tyres, this will make my car drive as though it's ((2.6 (wheel weight difference) x 4 (number of wheels) x 4 (ratio)) 41.6kg lighter overall.
Every 1kg of unsprung weight is equivalent to approximately 4kg of sprung weight.
If you increase your wheel weight (unsprung weight) it will mean that the engine has to work harder to rotate / accelerate the wheel and the brakes will have to work harder to slow the rotation. Heavier wheels will also numb the response of the shock absorbers / springs which means your tyres are not in contact with the ground as much as they could / should be.
I've gone from standard 16" 182 rims to 15" Clio Williams Speedlines which only weight about 7kg as apposed to 9.6kg of the standard and I really noticed the difference. The car feels so much lighter on its toes. Ignoring the tyres, this will make my car drive as though it's ((2.6 (wheel weight difference) x 4 (number of wheels) x 4 (ratio)) 41.6kg lighter overall.
182
41.6kg?? 10.4kg lighter overall
or that makes mine 56kg lighter!!which i very much doubt because thats the same weight as a sack of potatoes/small person
my weight saving is 14kg overall based on wheel weight
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RB 182 Cup
Absolutely, that is the actual weight saving, but because of where if has come from, if gives an overall effect similar to losing 56kg
182
RB 182 FF
he's saying 1k unsprung = 4k sprung
Knuckles
ClioSport Admin
Something to do with the force needed to rotate the wheel amiright? there was a great explination in mso's thread... cant remember it off the top of my head though
RB 182 Cup
http://www.boosttown.com/suspension/sprung_unsprung_weight.php
The above seems to say it's a 1:8 ratio, I always thought it was 1:4
http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/sprung-c.htm
It is rather confusing as my bit of Googling has just provided me with so much conflicting info!
It does make a difference though........... I think
The above seems to say it's a 1:8 ratio, I always thought it was 1:4
http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/sprung-c.htm
It is rather confusing as my bit of Googling has just provided me with so much conflicting info!
It does make a difference though........... I think
Rotating mass is the issue with things that rotate. Google it. Can't be arsed to explain.
Anyway, back on topic:
18's y0 !
17s are too big. 15s are the nicest to drive, but the right wheel makes the aesthetics work at the end of the day. 17" ultraleggera, in grey on a black Clio, won't look too big. The 17" silver things you have stick out like a sore thumb against the black of the car's paint.
Anyway, back on topic:
18's y0 !
17s are too big. 15s are the nicest to drive, but the right wheel makes the aesthetics work at the end of the day. 17" ultraleggera, in grey on a black Clio, won't look too big. The 17" silver things you have stick out like a sore thumb against the black of the car's paint.
M3, Cup racer'd 182
sheep?? .. he asked for opinions as thats what a `forum` is about
Yes that's what most other forum's are about, but this forum tends to slate people that don't go with the grain.
Sorry but just my opinion.
"Grip" was an innacurate choice of word by myself, but I'll stick with it to mean how much potential a car has to change direction. Grip depends on tyres (i.e. grip/width) and suspension response (also dictated by tyre profile and sidewall height). Keeping all else identical but getting those last two wrong (the typical example a being teenager slapping 17s on a tiny car deisnged for small wheels) it's definitely possible to have two identical wheels of different sizes with identical width/compound/brand/tread tyres and extract a different amount of grip from them.
So it's technically possible. Far more cruicial though, and I'm delighted you seem to have got these right/ok on your 17"s, are the 7 or 8 things which help to define handling (Off the top of my head I can think of: scrub radius, offset, ride height, centre of gravity, anti-roll stiffness, bump steer, track:wheelbase ratio, inertia, unsprung mass) that changing wheel size can have a massive effect on. Standard clios are optimised for 14/15/16" high/medium profile tyres so the above are all going to be changed quite a bit when you stick 17"s on.
182
Say these clios came with 14" alloys that come on many non sports etc.. And then you slapped 17's on i can understand the massive throw out of handling as you stated in the above.
in which the OP will get from his car due to drastic wheel size increase
But going from the standard size of 16" (on a sport model) - 17" is a very minimal hike in size, although yes it "may" cause slight tramlining and other tiny adverse effects to the drive, which on a road going car would to be honest go un-noticed.
Surely the same effects would come from going down a size to 15s
seems like were flogging a dead horse
in which the OP will get from his car due to drastic wheel size increase
But going from the standard size of 16" (on a sport model) - 17" is a very minimal hike in size, although yes it "may" cause slight tramlining and other tiny adverse effects to the drive, which on a road going car would to be honest go un-noticed.
Surely the same effects would come from going down a size to 15s
seems like were flogging a dead horse
Surely the same effects would come from going down a size to 15s
seems like were flogging a dead horse
The more crucial things tend to be the ones that get better with smaller sizes though (rotating mass, unsprung mass, centre of gravity, scrub radius, centre of pitch would improve too? [forgot about that one earlier!])
But yeah on the whole I agree. Plus/minus an inch, a KG, a % of suspension stiffness, a % of the "k" coefficient for heating up your tyres. Worth bothering over on the track, probably not worth bothering over for your weekly shop. Why not just fit the generally accepted optimum size and be done?
182
Thats the golden word there Steven unless its 15s/turinis/o.e.m. spec its not accepted on here lol.
But each to their own.
some good info there mate
mk2ph1 rsi 106rallye
i had 205/50 15s on and changed to 205/40 17s and day to day drive feels the same apart from slightly harder ride dosnt tramline dose not rub/catch even with passengers currently running 60mm drop all round i prefer the look of 17s than 15/16s but all depends on the style of wheel and ride hight.
op drop it 40 or 60mm will look alot better.
op drop it 40 or 60mm will look alot better.
