Aux belt slip, PAS squeal

[Stoatinacoat]

Hi Car is a 172 mk2 with AC. Stock belt setup.

I have used many threads on here to get to the point I am now so firstly, thank you to everyone who took the time to explain how the tensioner on the belt works, how to remove bits and where all the bolts are! It has been invaluable and the car would be gently burning by now without it.

So... My aux belt started squeaking and making a horrific noise on full lock. Ah well, was overdue anyway. Transpired the belt was actually stopping when loading the steering up, hence the noise. I changed the tensioner and the belt first following advice on here which was a fun job and it made no real difference. Annoying but the PAS pump has been whining for a while so I set out to start again and change that. The fact the fluid went black within a week of changing the belt reinforced my dead pump theory, or so I thought.

Stripped the car again a week after repair 1 and replaced the PAS pump. Put it all back together, filled with the right fluid and after a week the problem is back with a vengeance and getting worse.

To summarise, replaced the aux belt, tensioner and PAS pump and the belt still squeaks on start up and on full lock. Crank pulley "seems" fine to me with no play and doesn't look obviously f**ked, old pump definitely shagged when compared to it's replacement, genuine Renault parts used. Car starts fine so I'm assuming battery/alt fine and there are no water leaks from anywhere so I've ruled out the water pump? and it's not and never did leak PAS fluid. It has stayed red though which is nice. I have used the same belt for repair 1 and repair 2. If this is my issue I will change it again I'm just sick of ripping it apart and the thing still pissing me about.

I am fairly confident with cars/tools and have done many repairs on old sheds over the years but this car and it's ridiculous design is close to beating me.

TL,DR: Changed things, broke car, should have paid someone else to do it, considering application of fire as permanent repair.

 

[bloke]

did you make sure the mounting face for the tensioner was clean?
have seen a few that have been corroded stopping it from moving easily.

 

[Stoatinacoat]

did you make sure the mounting face for the tensioner was clean?
have seen a few that have been corroded stopping it from moving easily.

Hmmm. Not really. Back of the old tensioner looks nice and clean and there seems to be good (s**t loads) of tension in the belt. I will check this when inevitably it all has to come apart again. Maybe it would be worth a blob of grease between the mounting face and the back on the tensioner? Can't see it doing any harm as it's going to be all covered when reassembled anyway?

 

[Rob669]

Did you change the fixed roller, it should come as part of the kit and is the below the aircon pump pulley? Also did you torque the bolts correctly?

 

[AlexW]

I'd be inclined to check the water pump, alternator and A/C pump rotate freely.

My thought is the tensioner though.

 

[Stoatinacoat]

It occurred to me yesterday that I didn't change the roller thing as it didn't come with my belt kit. Looks like it's going to be a complete pain in the arse to get off and require engine mount off AGAIN but I shall do this and report back. Everything seemed to rotate happily but without anything to compare it with it's difficult to know if it's buggered.

 

[AlexW]

I use a short 13mm then a wobble end extension.

 

[Stoatinacoat]

Clever. Thank you! Sees obvious now

Now to see if Renault will sell me one of those on its own.

 

[Dan@SJM]

Cheaper to buy the whole aux kit.

 

[Stoatinacoat]

Already bought what I was told was the whole kit and replaced the belt and tensioner. You're right though, that wheel on its own is £45!

Apparently this was "left out" of my kit and another one is being ordered in for me to collect. Soon hopefully.

What I kinda want to know but am dreading the answer being "no" is that is that pulley likely or even possible to cause my symptoms?

 

[Andyrg@ ClioTurbo]

I have a spare idler... send me your address and I'll post u one.

I ended up selling half a kit to a lad who didn't have much money and was left with a bare belt and a idler.

 

[Stoatinacoat]

Thanks for the offer mate, much appreciated! Managed to convince my local Renault dealer to give me the one I should have had before though so got one now. Car is still mucking about though and having got someone else to go from lock to lock while I take a look it's still the PAS pump slowing down under load causing the belt to skip over it.

Noticed the revs aren't coming up when dry steering and it does stop squeaking when revved so going to change the valve thing now but if it isn't that I'm completely out of ideas. I'm now assuming I've fitted something wrong to be honest but I don't really see how it can be done any other way.

 

[Amos91]

Think its fairly normal for you to notice the load on the PAS steering when at full lock and it will slow down slightly.

 

[Stoatinacoat]

It never used to make the belt scream though. The crank is clearly spinning faster than the PAS pump. Somehow. Basically the pump slows right down under load and the belt gets dragged around it which is exactly the same problem I had before I changed the whiney and definitely shagged pump for this one. I'm wondering if when the old pump ate itself and turned the fluid to watery black shite it knackered something else.

Or I've put it back together wrong three consecutive times which is entirely possible I suppose. The revs are definitely not moving when steering on idle though so I assume the valve is dead so needs changing regardless.

 

[Rob669]

By valve I think you mean the sensor on the steering pump, right? When my sensor failed it didn't make the belt squeal, it caused the revs to drop and the engine would stall. If Renault didn't supply a full kit with an idler I'd be wondering if the rest of it was right, is the belt the right length I wonder, is the tensioner seized etc!

 

[Stoatinacoat]

Was wondering the same. Tensioner isn't seized at least as when I last had the front off you can see it moving when you yank the belt between the alternator and the AC compressor. I did check the length against the old one but if it was only a bit different I wouldn't have noticed to be honest.

Got to be worth another belt I suppose and I can probably do just a belt in about an hour now! I did mean the load sensor on the pipe that goes to the PAS pump and the car isn't stalling.

 

[Stoatinacoat]

Ok, I've changed the belt again and it's still the same. Having done loads of reading and searching on here I'm beginning to think the crank pulley might be my issue.

I understand the the bolt that holds this pulley in place holds the cambelt pulley in place as well. I don't have the tools to do a cambelt change but I gather there is a hole in the block somewhere I can use to lock the crank with a screwdriver, remove the pulley, wack a new one on then torque it up properly. Will I knock the timing out doing this?

I need the car to work and am at the end of my tether now so any recommendations of someone who can do this in the Maidstone area if I AM at risk of destroying my engine myself would be much appreciated.

 

[Vaughan]

The power steering flex pipes may be restricted and need changing. IIRC the 182s and possibly late-172 (with ESP) have a different, higher capacity power steering flex pipe that can be retro-fitted to the older 172s.

 

[Stoatinacoat]

Ok... This would be preferable to pissing about with the crank. Rubber pipe that goes into the pump?

Mine has ESP but I'm willing to give it a whirl.

 

[Rob669]

I wouldn't do this because it isn't the right way to lock it all up. What about Michael Woodford Motorsport over in Staines, I got my remap via them.

Ok, I've changed the belt again and it's still the same. Having done loads of reading and searching on here I'm beginning to think the crank pulley might be my issue.

I understand the the bolt that holds this pulley in place holds the cambelt pulley in place as well. I don't have the tools to do a cambelt change but I gather there is a hole in the block somewhere I can use to lock the crank with a screwdriver, remove the pulley, wack a new one on then torque it up properly. Will I knock the timing out doing this?

I need the car to work and am at the end of my tether now so any recommendations of someone who can do this in the Maidstone area if I AM at risk of destroying my engine myself would be much appreciated.

 

[Nickle1988]

I have exactly the same problem as this any idea of the cause yet

 

[Stoatinacoat]

Nope. Been told it isn't the crank pulley by Ren7oaks and they reckon it's another duff pump which is just marvellous and a little bit odd because it's showing exactly the same issue. It seems to be getting more intermittent and some days it doesn't do it at all but to be honest I haven't driven the car for a few days and I hope when I go to check it has been stolen.

 

[Stoatinacoat]

For the benefit of anybody searching this in the future this is now SOLVED. I can't seem to change the title to that though...

After much arsing around and pumps/tensioners/belts it turned out to be the crank pulley. Even though it looked ok another one was fitted to see and the problem went away. Thank you to Ren7oaks, highly recommended if you are a spanner with a spanner and have had enough of trying to fix things yourself!

 

[ldubl]

Thanks for posting your solution, having a similar squeal and new aux kit is going on, glad to hear you got yours sorted eventually!

 

[karol_SVK]

Nice you got it solved. Just wanted to advice you to make a line throu crank pulley so you could see if the outer part slips or not.
Dont burn it