BBPT Why Would They

[Ballcrusher]

over thre last few weeks found out that bbtunning alter there rolliong road graphs to make it seem that you have more bhp. as im awere on all graphs the bhp line and torqe line should cross each other at 5250rpm but bbtunnings cross at 6000rpm now ive spoke to a number of tunning companys and they say all that does is makes the car look like its got more bhp.at my last rolling road day at bb my williams pulled more bhp than ever before. shame realy as i thought they were a honest tunning company

 

[edde]

lb torque and hp sound be identical number wise at 5252rpm otherwise the RR is wrong.

 

[LegoHead]

over thre last few weeks found out that bbtunning alter there rolliong road graphs to make it seem that you have more bhp. as im awere on all graphs the bhp line and torqe line should cross each other at 5250rpm but bbtunnings cross at 6000rpm now ive spoke to a number of tunning companys and they say all that does is makes the car look like its got more bhp.at my last rolling road day at bb my williams pulled more bhp than ever before. shame realy as i thought they were a honest tunning company

do you have evidence of them doing this?

 

[gazcaddy]

I always thought that was the case too, but just been looking at my Renaultsport brochure and the Clio 182 power and torque curves cross at about 3800rpm and the Megane 225 cross at about 4750rpm. Maybe it just the way the graphs are drawn i.e not accurate

 

[Ian_182]

Thats a bit cheeky,sort of makes you wonder why they would do that

ian

 

[Batman]

knowone can judge without the evidence

 

[Ballcrusher]

Well A Friend Of Mine Just Had A Cams Fitted At Bb And Got 198bhp On There Rollers Wen He Went To Another Tunning Company He Got Far Less And They Told Us That 5250rpm Is The Correct Rpm So To Make Sure I Rang Around About 5 Other Tunners And They All Said The Same Thing 6000rpm Makes Ya Car Look Like Its Got More Bhp And Wen He Told Bb All They Said Was They Are All Wrong Noe Theese Companys Are Well Respacted

 

[White16valver]

Surely the power and torque lines will just cross where they cross?

There are different scales on each side of the graph for each line, so why would where they cross matter?

*confused*

lol

 

[Ballcrusher]

well i thought the same but all tunners that i spoke to today said wen they set up the rollers and put the details in at the end they all come out at 5250 rpm and i should have put n/a cars we didnt speek about turbo cars

 

[edde]

I always thought that was the case too, but just been looking at my Renaultsport brochure and the Clio 182 power and torque curves cross at about 3800rpm and the Megane 225 cross at about 4750rpm. Maybe it just the way the graphs are drawn i.e not accurate

Thats just down to the scales used.
50lb or torque at 5252hp is 50hp,
2000lb torque at 5252rpm is 2000hp.

 

[Liquidcool]

Thats a bit cheeky,sort of makes you wonder why they would do that

ian

There fools to try and con you with false figures and then tell you that all the other tuners are wrong and they are right! makes everyone else aware now! good post.

 

[White16valver]

I still don't get the logic.

But then I'm dumb. lol

BB are online sometime so might well spot this and respond

 

[Ballcrusher]

well figures will be posted soon as the cars going in to another company soon to have the work done properly

 

[Revels]

Every rolling road is different and can be changed very easily to give totally different results!

As proved on one CS rolling road outing!

 

[Martin]

I still don't get the logic.

But then I'm dumb. lol

BB are online sometime so might well spot this and respond

torque is directly proportional to bhp...

 

[beatjunkie]

Just looked at my print out from bb done on the same day as ballcrusher's, my cars only a 1.4 probly makes no difference but my lines cross at 4750rpm by the looks of it, what the hell does this mean eh?

Ryan

 

[davebigfoot]

Just looked at my print out from bb done on the same day as ballcrusher's, my cars only a 1.4 probly makes no difference but my lines cross at 4750rpm by the looks of it, what the hell does this mean eh?

Ryan

Can you post a copy of the graph so we can see? I'm betting either:

1) the scales are different e.g the power graph axis is ranged from 0-200bhp but the torque axis is from 0-150lb ft. Then the power and torque figures may be equal at 5252rpm but the lines will cross on the graph at a different engine speed.

or 2) the torque is expressed in Nm instead of lb ft.

Dave

 

[TheCake]

Steady on people this is verging on libel.

 

[john s]

dont think they would do it they are top blokes never had any problems with them had a very big renault 5 built by them with efi and my printouts where fine and im very sure it had the power they said/made

 

[jamesy]

so is a14 bbt really the most powerfull 5???

 

[dave b]

your all getting het up over what may be nothing.................the torque and bhp crossing at 5250 is correct but it only works if the graph is set out in a certain way ,you can do it any number of different ways and the lines wont cross at 5250 but that doesnt mean the graphs not accurate ...........................if rollers can ever be called accurate!! never imo.

dont bother with rollers for bhp numbers ,total waste of time ,get down to santa pod if you want to see if your cars quick.
Ive seen a standard zs 180 supposedly make 175 bhp on the rollers and then supposedly do 14.9 run at the pod still standard ,then it was fitted with a supercharger and was rollered at supposedly 240 bhp ,again it went to pod and best it could do was 14.3 ....so with another 65 bhp it only gained 6 tenths up the strip,yeah right, rollers my ar5e ,power is proved on the blacktop,,sometimes the shocking truth of the pod comes hard to folk boasting of big bhp numbers!!

 

[Gweebs]

Shame, I always considered BBPT a cut above the rest....

 

[Waitey]

LMAO they aren't cheating anyone. They are just using differing scales at either side of the graph. A lot of companies do it for a more neat looking graph.

 

[ChrisR]

er yeah surely it's all a matter of the scales used??

Can someone eplain why "the lines not crossing at 5250 (or whatever)" means the power figures are out?

 

[edde]

er yeah surely it's all a matter of the scales used??

Can someone eplain why "the lines not crossing at 5250 (or whatever)" means the power figures are out?

Its 5252 as 1lb or torque at 5252rpm is 1hp

1hp is equal to 745.69987158227022 watts or 33,000 ft·lbf·min-1. This is roughly equivalent to lifting 147,000 Newtons (the weight of a 15,000 kg mass) at a speed of 0.005 metre per second. This is the same power at 1lb or torque gives at 5252rpm.
If you give 1lb or torqaue above 5252rpm you have more than 1hp.
if you have 1lb or torque at 50504rpm you have 2hp.

 

[ChrisR]

Its 5252 as 1lb or torque at 5252rpm is 1hp

1hp is equal to 745.69987158227022 watts or 33,000 ft·lbf·min-1. This is roughly equivalent to lifting 147,000 Newtons (the weight of a 15,000 kg mass) at a speed of 0.005 metre per second. This is the same power at 1lb or torque gives at 5252rpm.
If you give 1lb or torqaue above 5252rpm you have more than 1hp.
if you have 1lb or torque at 50504rpm you have 2hp.

I understand the formulae etc, but what I'm saying is why does it matter they use their scales differently (er that kinda makes sense )?

Yes 1lb of torque at 50504rpm you have 2hp, but on the graph the axis for the torque would look silly

You can see on a graph the revs, you know whta the car revs to, so surely the power can be seen clearly whatever the axis is for the torque?

I just don't see the problem in having different scales.

See this for example

Scales make it so the graph doens't even cross, but does it show the car has more power than it really does?

 

[ChrisR]

Its 5252 as 1lb or torque at 5252rpm is 1hp

1hp is equal to 745.69987158227022 watts or 33,000 ft·lbf·min-1. This is roughly equivalent to lifting 147,000 Newtons (the weight of a 15,000 kg mass) at a speed of 0.005 metre per second. This is the same power at 1lb or torque gives at 5252rpm.
If you give 1lb or torqaue above 5252rpm you have more than 1hp.
if you have 1lb or torque at 50504rpm you have 2hp.

I understand the formulae etc, but what I'm saying is why does it matter they use their scales differently (er that kinda makes sense )?

Yes 1lb of torque at 50504rpm you have 2hp, but on the graph the axis for the torque would look silly

You can see on a graph the revs, you know whta the car revs to, so surely the power can be seen clearly whatever the axis is for the torque?

I just don't see the problem in having different scales.

See this for example

Now yes they make the lines on the big power car cross at that point, and I see how it's wrong as whilst the rpm is right the values are not (i.e. they should be equal?).

Been a while since I did my degree and I was more of an elec man than mech, so didn't pay attention in the modules I did have to do in all this

I genuinely just don't get why this is a problem unless them "making" the lines not cross when calibrating the RR is seriously wrong.

 

[beatjunkie]

Im sure there just using different scales to the rest of the companies therefore the cross is at different intervals, as by comparing my bb one with the examples above i can see that its still acurate, surely we cant doubt bb, well i dont!

A top company!

 

[Wazza182]

ok ladies and gentleman, this is a rolling road printout from bb tuning. Analise the figures and see if mine makes sense.

 

[Fred@BTM]

what work did you have done as theirs a nice torque increase there!!

 

[jay s]

got an old graph from bb and on that my torque/bhp line is @ 6.2k, also got a graph from 2weeks before the bb run which was done at hillpower and the torque/bhp line is @ 5.2k. then got another one done at hillpower a few months later after a few mods and torque/bhp line is @ 5.2k again. was'nt to impressed with my bb run...
[IMGO]http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a117/jay16v-/DSCF1296Large.jpg[/IMGO]

before and after at hillpower

[IMGO]http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a117/jay16v-/DSCF1524Large.jpg[/IMGO]

 

[bass_direct]

the scales seem the same on your graphs jay

 

[Nik]

LOL, as others have said the point at which the lines will cross will depend on the scales of the axis.

Your all worrying about nothing as far as the graphs go.

 

[Wazza182]

what work did you have done as theirs a nice torque increase there!!

I uprated the spark plugs, magnacore 8.5mm ht leads, new dizzy cap + rotor arm, full mongoose stainless steel exhaust inc de-cat, green cotton induction kit, and bb tuning chip.

If you look on the graph there are two readings, it was the before and after the chip. induction kit now off replaced with standard air box.

 

[chiefsilverback]

Regardless of scales etc... the power and torque figures at 5252 should be identical?

With than in mind draw a vertical line through 5252 and the read the torque and power figures at those points, if they are the same then the graph is correct if not there's something wrong...

 

[2 live]

tis the oldest trick in the book...over reading r/rs to get better customer backing. as said above..r/r readouts are ok for checkin mods etc....but always use the same r/r.


lad bbpt ktec gdi kill power....all are guilty of this at some point.

 

[ChrisR]

mm can a mod delete the first of those double posts, site was going weird for me last night

 

[Guy]

from what ive seen the BBPT graphs scale the power and torque to fit the curve onto the graph as best they can.

so the scales for torque and power are different

if you look at the VALUES at 5250 rpm they are the same

 

[Clio_V6_255]

A quick lesson:

Engines create torque. HP is calculated from that using the following...

There is a direct relationship between horsepower and torque. You can convert torque to horsepower with the following equation:

HP = Torque * RPM / 5,252

Theres a clue in there!

Peter

 

[MrStabby]

Using the above method. My car got 145lbs/ft @ 5893 so this would equal 162.69bhp, not the 175bhp quoted on my graph...puzzled