Best cams for rs2 xtra

[Mack182]

So had a little search and not found much on what cams will suit my rs2 xtra the best ?

I know the 197 cams are good but they drop the torque figure quite a bit for a few extra bhp, really I wanted to try and keep the torque as high as possible.

Any ideas and suggestions would be great cheers.

 

[Nick172Cup]

I'd personally leave the standard cams myself, apart from the C&B's that James from JMS had I've not seen cams make a good amount of difference for the price.

What power has it made now its been mapped mate?

 

[Chip-mk1]

The only cams anyone has ever actually yet run on the rs2 extra are the standard ones, so you wont get an answer to this, the best any of us can do is guess.

Personally I really like the standard RS2 with 197 cams, I would expect the extra to do basically the same thing but with slightly more torque all the way due to the extra inlet runner length, but I havent done it to prove that theory, and things dont always function exactly as they would logically be expected to do so.

197 cams would be what I would try first personally, although I'd also like to see how an RS2 reacts to a set of 438 including trying some different cam timing settings, but thats going to be expensive to try, first thing to do if trying that would be put it on aftermarket IMHO so as to make the mapping easier each time, its a bit of a ballache on the standard management.

 

[Mack182]

I'd personally leave the standard cams myself, apart from the C&B's that James from JMS had I've not seen cams make a good amount of difference for the price.

What power has it made now its been mapped mate?

i didn't get a rolling road figure in the end nick due to the maf boss falling off the inlet under load but since has been fixed and had no problems, but still Haven't had a chance to get back up to mike to get the map tweaked and a rolling road figure. Am hoping for mid to high 190s

 

[Mack182]

The only cams anyone has ever actually yet run on the rs2 extra are the standard ones, so you wont get an answer to this, the best any of us can do is guess.

Personally I really like the standard RS2 with 197 cams, I would expect the extra to do basically the same thing but with slightly more torque all the way due to the extra inlet runner length, but I havent done it to prove that theory, and things dont always function exactly as they would logically be expected to do so.

197 cams would be what I would try first personally, although I'd also like to see how an RS2 reacts to a set of 438 including trying some different cam timing settings, but thats going to be expensive to try, first thing to do if trying that would be put it on aftermarket IMHO so as to make the mapping easier each time, its a bit of a ballache on the standard management.

I think that's what I'm gonna try is the 197 cams as there isn't really a answer to my question as the rs2 xtra is a bit of a black hole as their isn't many of them about

Mike did say whilst mapping that he thinks the extra would benefit from a set of the 197 cams.

 

[mr.pink87]

Can you retain the 1*2 cam phaser with the 197 cams?

 

[bozothenutter]

wouldn't the increased runnerlength compensate for the shift in torque to the upper rev range a bit?
or am I talking b****cks?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Can you retain the 1*2 cam phaser with the 197 cams?

Yes, all the ones we have done now use the 172 dephasor and 197 cams, it still works perfectly well like that, but you have to adjust the base timing on the 197 cams as they are designed to work with more movement on the dephasor than the 172 one can provide (197 ones move further).

Ive done a couple, Mikes done a few, and Danlp6 has done one, all seem to have worked well, and 3 of those were on RS2's, 2 of them have been on the rollers (at two different sets of rollers, TSR and Surrey Rolling Road) and both of them made 200bhp.

I think for 200bhp though a decent decatted exhaust is an absolutely must, my mrs car is the 3rd one with an RS2 and 197 cams I doubt that is much over 190bhp as its running a cat still and only a ktec stealth exhaust which isnt the best in terms of flow but she likes it being quiet so wont let me upgrade it just so she gains 5bhp that realistically you wont really notice when driving anyway, and TBH she does kind of have a point, lol

 

[mr.pink87]

Thanks Chip. Do you have any data on the 197 cams as duration lift etc.? Might be interesting to compare these to my 428s.

 

[Chip-mk1]

wouldn't the increased runnerlength compensate for the shift in torque to the upper rev range a bit?
or am I talking b****cks?

You are correct that his car with the longer runner length should be making more torque on the 197 cams than the rest of us with 197 cams and standard RS2 manifolds.


Although as is always the case with these engines, the engine can vary by so much in the first place that you cant compare 2 different engines with slightly different specs and think its the spec difference that definately causes the difference, like Millerins cup I always mention that makes 182bhp and 165lbft on surrey rolling road and yet is the same spec engine as my mrs car was (previous to her installing an RS2 on it) when it made 169bhp and 145lbft on the same rollers.
So if you fitted red bolts to his rocker cover and that was the only difference, and you put them both on the rollers to see the effect of the red bolts, it would look like they gave 20lbft and 13bhp if you were trying to use hers as a before and his as an after.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Thanks Chip. Do you have any data on the 197 cams as duration lift etc.? Might be interesting to compare these to my 428s.

IIRC Catcams (i think it was them anyway) do a group N cam for the 197, if you look that up then the figures should only be very very slightly different to a standard 197 set.
Ive not got the figures to hand personally though, we just could see they were bigger by looking at them side by side.

 

[mr.pink87]

Just had a look. Inlet cam seems a bit more "wilder" on the 197 and the exhaust cam is a bit "milder" compared to the 428s. Might consider a set if they come up on here. How do you correctly time them in (due to the rocker cover design of the F4R)?

 

[jonnyrobert]

Iirc there was a thread on clio trophy were a lad had an rs2 and 428's but they didn't match well.

 

[Fred@BTM]

197 dephaser on a 172, hum......

 

[MG cup]

Where can I buy these red bolts?

 

[Dan@SJM]

197 dephaser on a 172, hum......

Hullo inlet valves!

 

[Chip-mk1]

Just had a look. Inlet cam seems a bit more "wilder" on the 197 and the exhaust cam is a bit "milder" compared to the 428s. Might consider a set if they come up on here. How do you correctly time them in (due to the rocker cover design of the F4R)?

You make a tool to do it.
Or in my case you borrow it from Mike at MWM, lol

 

[mr.pink87]

Similar to the tool Catcams offer? Something to clamp the cams down without installing the rocker cover?

 

[Chip-mk1]

No, similar to the standard horseshoe, but with the cams angled differently.

 

[Korky]

Chip, do you have and dimensions angles etc for this tool, I'd happily pay for a drawing of it?

Wanting to install some 197 cams but don't want to be down on power with standard timing until mapping

 

[Chip-mk1]

No mate I am afraid I cant help you with that, the only person with permission to share Mikes figures is Mike and I am sure he would sooner not share them after all the rolling road time it took on various settings to get them to work, other people who have tried them in the past have found no gains with them because they didnt put enough effort into trying different timing settings.

 

[Korky]

Understandable mate. Cheers.

 

[WhiteDevil]

I drive a 64mm throttle on my 172 ph1...is it possible to drive it on the rs2?

 

[Chip-mk1]

I drive a 64mm throttle on my 172 ph1...is it possible to drive it on the rs2?

I cant remember the exact sizes off the top of my head, but the standard Ph1 body will fit with minimal modification to the mounting holes. Or have you pointlessly fitted an even larger than standard throttle body (Im calling it pointless on the basis that the standard one happily flows over 200bhp anyway)

 

[WhiteDevil]

I cant remember the exact sizes off the top of my head, but the standard Ph1 body will fit with minimal modification to the mounting holes. Or have you pointlessly fitted an even larger than standard throttle body (Im calling it pointless on the basis that the standard one happily flows over 200bhp anyway)

I reduced the intake restrictive with the 64mm butterfly -the v6 airbox outlet have a 64mm inner diameter. It´s a stock throttle with enlarged butterfly.
The other parts are, E&D cams, upgraded valve springs and forge silicon hose in the moment.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Would fit fine then mate.

You might struggle for fuelling on the standard Ecu and injectors with rs2 and those cams. Not sure how close to 100 percent duty the standard Ecu will go and you need to be pretty close with that combination I would think as I'd expect it to breeze past 200bhp. Expect a less flat torque curve though of course.

 

[ozclio03]

You make a tool to do it.
Or in my case you borrow it from Mike at MWM, lol

so if I was to get a set of 197 cams for my RS2'd 182 I would struggle to find any one in Australia to correctly set up the timing?

 

[Saner]

If you can't make the tool someone else in Aus could!