best torque gaining mods?

[dunlop]

my car has a larger tb, 421 cams, and inlets, i've got a 182 manifold to get fitted, just want to know anyway of gaining more torque as its dead below 5000rpm. i get left behind by 1.2's if i'm out of the power band.

 

[mini-valver]

Get the timing checked. 421's are quite peaky anyway but they shouldn't be that bad. Standard ecu??

 

[dunlop]

no omex. timing is good, had the cambelt changed by renault.

 

[JoedotwasT5phy]

As above - have you check your induction? sounds far more reluctant than most

 

[dunlop]

its got an itg filter on it, it goes very well when its on cam, but nout before hand. majorty of the time have to drop it 2 cogs to get it up and above 5000

 

[Russ_16v]

if you have the cash throttle body it chap, you will gain LOADS of torque

 

[dunlop]

don't think i could afford to run a t/b'd one. it won't do more than 300 miles to a tank on a steady run. on a hard tank it'll do around 180!

 

[Andyman]

if you have the cash throttle body it chap, you will gain LOADS of torque

You can still have a very quick N/A set up if its 'set up' is spot on. (see youtube vid on N/A Cup vs TB'd ph1 172)



More work on the map maybe ?? Cams will take away bottom end driveability to some extent but not as much as described

 

[mini-valver]

I'm gonna get flamed and points for this but it sounds like a GDI car*, so get in touch with them. If the timing is ok (Check it anyway) then I'd put money on it being mapping or a sensor somewhere. To have to drop 2 gears to get above 5k isn't normal.


*The large throttle body package. Not because the car sounds fucked.

 

[Andyman]

I was told by a experienced Saxo modder, to map a standalone 100% properly would take days not a couple of hours like most tuners doo

 

[dunlop]

I've heard good and bad things about them, I won't say the bad things, as Its not my place to, but I want someone else to map it...

I'm in talks with angelworks to get a vems fitted.

 

[mini-valver]

True to an extent. You can get it so anything that could be finely adjusted, wouldnt be noticeable when being driven, which is what most people do.


I think, lol.

 

[mini-valver]

I've heard good and bad things about them, I won't say the bad things, as Its not my place to, but I want someone else to map it...

I'm in talks with angelworks to get a vems fitted.

I have a VEMS on mine, first impressions are good and it was considerable cheaper than the OMEX. Time will tell how good the map is though I guess! Paul@RStuning mapped mine.....

Cant hurt giving GDI a ring mate, see what they say as it's one of there cars....

 

[dunlop]

Have spoken to them, the work wasn't a year old and they still wanted money to correct a faulty map.

 

[172Ben]

I was told by a experienced Saxo modder, to map a standalone 100% properly would take days not a couple of hours like most tuners doo

Spot on, took mine a full day of mapping to get it right.

 

[Christopher]

Difference between VEMS and Omex?

 

[Andyman]

Get the car on a RR and see whats going on with the AFR etc

Could be a simple explanation or possible fault elsewhere on the car

 

[mini-valver]

Omex is E marked, which to me makes next to no difference.

VEMS is cheaper, and has the same features, argueably more IIRC.

 

[dunlop]

Difference between VEMS and Omex?

For starters from what ben was saying vems has wideband, which helps alot and its alot more suited to road going cars than a clubman ecu like omex.

 

[Christopher]

Aye, i thought so! So you're just paying for the E marking really?

Which really means bugger all as it's invalidated most of the time anyway?

Edit - Cheers dunlop

 

[mini-valver]

Yeah, OMEX uses knock to control ignition timing. I'm running the wideband which is miles better for setting the ignition and fueling maps.

I'm sure someone will come and give an in-depth analysis though, lol.


Re. E marking- Omex are saying your insurance will be invalid if the ecu is'nt e marked but when you declare the ecu to your broker, they dont ask make and model. "I have an aftermarket ecu"......."Thats £25 exrta on your premium sir"

 

[dunlop]

24000 post's :O you must live on here!

 

[Christopher]

Yeah, OMEX uses knock to control ignition timing. I'm running the wideband which is miles better for setting the ignition and fueling maps.

I'm sure someone will come and give an in-depth analysis though, lol.


Re. E marking- Omex are saying your insurance will be invalid if the ecu is'nt e marked but when you declare the ecu to your broker, they dont ask make and model. "I have an aftermarket ecu"......."Thats £25 exrta on your premium sir"

LOL... so it's pretty much a technicality.

24000 post's :O you must live on here!

There's worse on here... thankfully.

 

[sideways danny]

Yeah, OMEX uses knock to control ignition timing. I'm running the wideband which is miles better for setting the ignition and fueling maps.

you what? wideband for timing adjustments? lol, I think not

Wideband is used for fueling, knock detection is used for measuring the limits of ignition advance at a load point. Without both you cannot map properly.

neither parameter have anything to do with what ECU you are using. You're confusing the fact your VEMS has wideband feedback direct into the ECU with how the ECU is mapped. Dont need self learning if you can map right to start with.

 

[sideways danny]

Have spoken to them, the work wasn't a year old and they still wanted money to correct a faulty map.

sorry, dont know who you are and no-one here can think who you are or remember speaking to you. Please give us a call, I've PM'd you. If there really was a fault or problem with the map than of course there'd be no charge

 

[mini-valver]

you what? wideband for timing adjustments? lol, I think not

Wideband is used for fueling, knock detection is used for measuring the limits of ignition advance at a load point. Without both you cannot map properly.

neither parameter have anything to do with what ECU you are using. You're confusing the fact your VEMS has wideband feedback direct into the ECU with how the ECU is mapped. Dont need self learning if you can map right to start with.

Ignition advance is part and parcel of the timing though?? Omex doesn't have wideband, so is mapped diffrently.

sorry, dont know who you are and no-one here can think who you are or remember speaking to you. Please give us a call, I've PM'd you. If there really was a fault or problem with the map than of course there'd be no charge

See

 

[sideways danny]

Ignition advance is part and parcel of the timing though?? Omex doesn't have wideband, so is mapped diffrently.

dude, honestly, step back. you dont need wideband built in to the ECU to use it for mapping. We have multiple wideband units for mapping cars. We also have multiple knock detection methods that are fitted to cars for mapping then removed once it's complete

 

[dunlop]

sorry, dont know who you are and no-one here can think who you are or remember speaking to you. Please give us a call, I've PM'd you. If there really was a fault or problem with the map than of course there'd be no charge

Pm returned.

 

[Reyes]

24000 post's :O you must live on here!

JESUS.. didnt notice that.

 

[mini-valver]

dude, honestly, step back. you dont need wideband built in to the ECU to use it for mapping. We have multiple wideband units for mapping cars. We also have multiple knock detection methods that are fitted to cars for mapping then removed once it's complete

I know, I never said you did! It's a difference between the ECU's though, which is what the Q was. I'm not gonna pretend I know the first thing about maping, just re-iterating what I've been told

 

[drhowser]

i thought omex had wideband capabilities, or is that only on the 710?

 

[sideways danny]

i thought omex had wideband capabilities, or is that only on the 710?

It has the capability, but it's not needed once the map is done. Narrowband is quite adequate for economy and off load fueling trim

 

[Fred@BTM]

i might have a 710 for sale if anyone wants one? (new)

 

[sideways danny]

I know, I never said you did! It's a difference between the ECU's though, which is what the Q was. I'm not gonna pretend I know the first thing about maping, just re-iterating what I've been told

wideband isn't used for timing AT ALL, EVER was my point

 

[mini-valver]

I can see my tail.....

 

[dunlop]

fitted the 182 manifold today. has inproved it slightly, but nothing compared to what I was hoping.

 

[Andyman]

Get it rolling roaded fella, see whats going on