Best track car geometry? Front/ rear camber amount?

[Gaz-m]

For a track clio, whats the kind of camber you run front and rear?

Id be running 888s or slicks.

Obviously best way for me to find best setup is by using it on track and measuring tyre temps across the tyre, but was hoping for a good starting point?

I have camber adjustable coilovers and will purchase rear shims.

 

[willcrook]

This is a question very much on my mind at the moment.

Putting some Cooksports on the Trophy next week, which runs on RSR's on track.

Thinking about starting with -2.5 degrees camber on the front and leaving the rears as they are (at around -1.5 degrees)

Maybe a small amount of toe out (5 minutes) on the front and leave the rears parallel.

I would also be interested in the opinions of the Cliosport Guru's on this.

 

[...]

for a start cooksports are way to soft for track , and i would say moreso on sticky rubber

settings depend on how you drive , but they like camber on the front

as for running slicks , what are your shocks and springs at the moment ?

what arb's are you running.

what slicks are you looking to run ?

the answer to your question is not really a single defined answer.

 

[Gaz-m]

for a start cooksports are way to soft for track , and i would say moreso on sticky rubber

settings depend on how you drive , but they like camber on the front

as for running slicks , what are your shocks and springs at the moment ?

what arb's are you running.

what slicks are you looking to run ?

the answer to your question is not really a single defined answer.

Fk Konigsport coilovers (koni shocks, fk springs), solid top mounts, polybush lower arm.

Dunlop SP slicks and also R888s.

standard ARBs but i hear wWhiteline rear is a good upgrade?

 

[...]

Proberbly ok on 888's don't run it to low ...2.5 to 3 degrees neg and slight toe out .... square up the rear and see how you get on
The answer then is tell us how the car behaves and we van advise accordingly ..... one of the other racers will be along shortly and maybe add a little but i start with a factory base setup and then set up the car occording to my style and how it reacts

There is no magic answer

I could say on slicks run 4 degs front 2.5 rear neg and you either hate it or not work it hard enough to generate heat and bin it.

Does that make sense ?

 

[Tony Hunter]

I don't know where to start.

But Harv's not far off, so give that a go.

Do you like it understeering/oversteering, lively backend etc?

 

[Gaz-m]

Proberbly ok on 888's don't run it to low ...2.5 to 3 degrees neg and slight toe out .... square up the rear and see how you get on
The answer then is tell us how the car behaves and we van advise accordingly ..... one of the other racers will be along shortly and maybe add a little but i start with a factory base setup and then set up the car occording to my style and how it reacts

There is no magic answer

I could say on slicks run 4 degs front 2.5 rear neg and you either hate it or not work it hard enough to generate heat and bin it.

Does that make sense ?

Car is quite low, what negative effect does that have to handling?

id have thought rear needed little or no camber as there will be no tyre roll surely?

I don't know where to start.

But Harv's not far off, so give that a go.

Do you like it understeering/oversteering, lively backend etc?

Id rather have it completely planted with minimal understeer or oversteer! Dont like either, they only occur once youve lost grip ! :race:

 

[Fraser.J.]

I ran -2.5 on the front, a little toe out, then the rear standard.

Also oversteer makes you faster

The minis that race up there run 60 psi rear tyres so the back end is a little more lively

 

[Tony Hunter]

Car is quite low, what negative effect does that have to handling?

id have thought rear needed little or no camber as there will be no tyre roll surely?


Id rather have it completely planted with minimal understeer or oversteer! Dont like either, they only occur once youve lost grip ! :race:

Yes you will need some rear camber, unless you're not going to try hard enough.

Wouldn't we all.

 

[Gaz-m]

Cheers, im actually getting Tim Sleigh who runs 5 (of the top) minis at Knockhill to set it up and corner weight it now. But good to know anyway.

It will be working hard alright, what rear camber then, 1 degree? Ill purchase shims just now.

 

[...]

Its got about 1.5 as standard ... minis are a different thing to set up depending on what minis your talking about but he will talk you through option.

Planted with no under or oversteer ? Not sure that exists truely outside of slicks and wings ..... where you can use downforce to get close but then you can always push past that.

A balanced car can be acheived but like Tony said where do we start.

Track setup is never black and white and there are always compromises due to design.

Speak to your mini guy and develop things one step at a time

Not trying to be evasive but its just not a case of saying do this this and this

 

[Gaz-m]

Was merely after some suggestions from experience, not after a race winning setup over the internet.

 

[Fraser.J.]

2 degrees up front, little toe out, leave the rear standard

 

[...]

Was merely after some suggestions from experience, not after a race winning setup over the internet.

What i was trying to say gaz is what i first posted was a start .... go from there .

 

[NorthloopCup]

Saint. Patience of a. harvsurrey

 

[...]

Saint. Patience of a. harvsurrey

I understand that people done have in depth knowlage of how and why ... and nothing wrong in asking,but as you know its a question there is no answer to.

When i ran my westfield (see the track cars thread) i listened to the forum and race gurus .... tried it and to me it was awfull
These guys had been sprinting these setups for years

I developed my own based on feel and my knowlage .... it was genuinely awesome but had a few compromises due to the diff i ran

I sold it to a well known northern member who was well respected .... he drove it at croft and was stunned .... and for years i have been repeatedly asked for the setup (i still get emails now ) however ... its not for everyone.

 

[NorthloopCup]

Yeah me too mate, and giving someone a starting point is all I try to do. It's just a shame it gets covered so many times. Search function should bring all the old discussions up. No offence meant to the OP either btw.

 

[...]

Its something that comes up over and again on every car forum .... and searching google brings little definative advise on how to set up tin tops .

The fact there is little definative advice answers the question to some extent ...

 

[Gaz-m]

Cheers!!

 

[Tony Hunter]

Boom!!

 

[willcrook]

for a start cooksports are way to soft for track , and i would say moreso on sticky rubber

Maybe you're right - but we have got a set spare - and we would like to get the car riding a bit lower, as ride height seems to have increased on the standard springs because of our weight reduction measures.

I think you can see it on this picture using the standard Trophy springs at Oulton Park last year :

 

[mikeh]

I found quite an improvement from adding camber to the rear, but as Tony says, I guess you really need to be trying hard to take advantage of it

I have -2.5 front and rear, which seemed pretty good - I think the front could do with going up to -3, though.

 

[Gaz-m]

I found quite an improvement from adding camber to the rear, but as Tony says, I guess you really need to be trying hard to take advantage of it

I have -2.5 front and rear, which seemed pretty good - I think the front could do with going up to -3, though.

Cheers, ive set it up to give it a shot- 4 degrees neg camber front, 2 degrees neg rear. 10min toe out.

Havent had corner weights done, will be done at some point, probably once its ballasted up for Super lap scotland!

 

[MG cup]

Cheers, ive set it up to give it a shot- 4 degrees neg camber front, 2 degrees neg rear. 10min toe out.

Havent had corner weights done, will be done at some point, probably once its ballasted up for Super lap scotland!

Aye you'll probably need all of that 4 deg too, I ran 5 with just springs and managed to get outside edge wear lol. Knockhill is funny as the corners aren't high speed but you get massive compressions in normal direction.

Is that 10' toe out on the rear Gaz? Do you have a RARB as well?

 

[Gaz-m]

Aye you'll probably need all of that 4 deg too, I ran 5 with just springs and managed to get outside edge wear lol. Knockhill is funny as the corners aren't high speed but you get massive compressions in normal direction.

Is that 10' toe out on the rear Gaz? Do you have a RARB as well?

You were running RSRs though werent you? Think they roll a lot more than 88s! Toyo advise 5deg max!

Toe is on front, havent checked rear nor do i have any way of checking it. How do you go about adjusting rear toe if needed!??

 

[MG cup]

You were running RSRs though werent you? Think they roll a lot more than 88s! Toyo advise 5deg max!

Toe is on front, havent checked rear nor do i have any way of checking it. How do you go about adjusting rear toe if needed!??

Yeah it was RS-R's and they wear shoulders for fun.

Rear toe is adjustable with shims behind the stub axle and you also get rear hub spacers for in there so its the best way to widen the track if you plan to. Saves messing with wheel spacers and will prolong the bearings.

If your there on the 1st I can bring my rig and quickly check it for you then you can buy shims and spacers to suit.

And did you do your tracking yourself, one of my cups maxed at at parallel front and this one maxes out at 10' as the tie rod bottoms out on the track rod. Just wondering if you had similar?

 

[Gaz-m]

Yeah it was RS-R's and they wear shoulders for fun.

Rear toe is adjustable with shims behind the stub axle and you also get rear hub spacers for in there so its the best way to widen the track if you plan to. Saves messing with wheel spacers and will prolong the bearings.

If your there on the 1st I can bring my rig and quickly check it for you then you can buy shims and spacers to suit.

And did you do your tracking yourself, one of my cups maxed at at parallel front and this one maxes out at 10' as the tie rod bottoms out on the track rod. Just wondering if you had similar?

Ah right just same as camber shims.

Thanks a lot for offer, appreciate it. Im going to get it properly checked and corner weighted soon enough. If you have it with you anyway it could be interesting to see it set up too though.

I done it all yeh, my track rods are fine, think theyre about 20 turns on.

Check that Cup ones arent different, i think i maybe read that somewhere. Maybe thats your problem.

 

[MG cup]

Ah right just same as camber shims.

Thanks a lot for offer, appreciate it. Im going to get it properly checked and corner weighted soon enough. If you have it with you anyway it could be interesting to see it set up too though.

I done it all yeh, my track rods are fine, think theyre about 20 turns on.

Check that Cup ones arent different, i think i maybe read that somewhere. Maybe thats your problem.

Aye just camber shims.

Yeah cup tie rods are specific to the cup (longest ones) and the track rods ends are all the same. I have had it twice now where the thread bottoms out in the TRE with anything more than parallel and toe out.

I'll be bringing it anyway so its there if you want.

 

[Gaz-m]

Are cup wishbones longer too? If so, maybe the 2 you had problems with had accidentaly had standard replacement wishbones, meaning to correct tracking the tre's would need wound further in and hence bottoming out?

My bottom arms are both stamped RS so still original and as i say, no problem with bottoming out!

 

[Gaz-m]

Ordered a rear anti roll bar now too, hopefully handle good and just need to mess about with dampening and RARB.

What do people run in the wet, RARB disconnected?