Best way to get power out of a 1*2

[RSTuning]

What about a custom super charger ?????
I just don't see where all the cost come from £4000???????

For our kit:

Rotrex 1700
Pro Alloy Rad/Cooler Combo - 800 (or so cant remember from the top of my head)
Oil Cooler 60
Injectors 240
Brackets 250
Pipework 200+-
Filter 50
Labour
Mapping
etc

Straight away the parts cost is pretty high plus the mapping, the above is just from the top of my head. We make next to nothing on our kit once fitted and mapped. You can do it cheaper with other intercoolers and having modded radiators but not by that much!

 

[focrs]

I no way am i knocking what it cost you. You have to buy all parts new where we can buy off ebay and have the risk factor of our parts.
As you say there could be some savings from the coolers and rad as pro alloy are crazy money . Have you thought about getting a fab shop to make these parts or trying airtech they are better made cheaper????

 

[RSTuning]

If people are not interested in our kit as it stands then thats how it is. We offer a quality kit with the right parts, no junk from ebay here.....

 

[focrs]

If people are not interested in our kit as it stands then thats how it is. We offer a quality kit with the right parts, no junk from ebay here.....

iam sure kit is the best mate and air enough but about ebay mate. But as you said there is savings on the coolers. Pro alloy stuff which is really over priced and i would say just because it is cost the most don't make it the best.

 

[jack_kemp]

I'm certain it would cost me less money in the long run to get you guys to do it... But where's the fun in that

 

[Tony Hunter]

I think to decide how and if a power increase is required you first need to look at what application the car will be used for. If it's a road car a bit of boost makes sense as it's fairly low duty cycle and a stock engine will last well. If it's a track/race car then the added throttle response, lower fuel burn rate and of course series/championship rules means ITB's make sense, especialy when circa 200bhp is available from a stock scrap yard engine (so no expensive internals etc.).

It's horses for courses, there is no one correct answer. For me an ITB'd Clio on circuit is a joy to drive especialy with some sticky tyres and trick dampers as they pick up and handle so well. My everyday road car would destroy one in a straight line but is no where near as much fun on track!

Sounds familiar hey Matt.

 

[Icarus]

Sounds familiar hey Matt.

You boys demonstrate how to do club motorsport IMHO! A £12K engine is not club racing, it's semi-pro!!

 

[Tony Hunter]

 

[bomber]

I can't be reading all of this because I'm on the phone. I'm currently mid-build in my own supercharged clio and once mapped and finished won't be too short of £4k so can fully see how rstunings kit comes at about £4k, only difference is I've managed to include a TDF EC1 rather than stock ecu.

You won't charge it for cheap, we've tried it and it doesn't happen unless your lucky enough to find some 2nd hand parts. If you've got £4k to spend do it, if not, I'm with Icarus and Tony with 200bhp itb'd lump and some tasty suspension

 

[jack_kemp]

I can't be reading all of this because I'm on the phone. I'm currently mid-build in my own supercharged clio and once mapped and finished won't be too short of £4k so can fully see how rstunings kit comes at about £4k, only difference is I've managed to include a TDF EC1 rather than stock ecu.

You won't charge it for cheap, we've tried it and it doesn't happen unless your lucky enough to find some 2nd hand parts. If you've got £4k to spend do it, if not, I'm with Icarus and Tony with 200bhp itb'd lump and some tasty suspension

Itb's and coilies would end up close to £4k anyway!
I can't justify the £2,500 odd for itb's for 20hp.

I think it's going to be between turbo and s/c. Is there any significant difference in figures between the two?
They seem to be pretty equal in every respect, cost/power/reliability etc. The only thing I can see being an advantage is the option to take the turbo build further using a lot of the same parts.

 

[jenic]

I haven't read all this thread but imo ITB's are the way to go.

Few reasons, mainly because they are easy to reverse and put back to standard, then you can sell the bodies for little loss. The throttle response and sound is amazing and most charged clio's dont seem very reliable at all. Theres a few exceptions but those exceptions seem to have cost the owners a lot more than the £4k that gets battered around to get them to the level of reliability they have.

If your still after more power then ITB's+cams

 

[jack_kemp]

I haven't read all this thread but imo ITB's are the way to go.

Few reasons, mainly because they are easy to reverse and put back to standard, then you can sell the bodies for little loss. The throttle response and sound is amazing and most charged clio's dont seem very reliable at all. Theres a few exceptions but those exceptions seem to have cost the owners a lot more than the £4k that gets battered around to get them to the level of reliability they have.

If your still after more power then ITB's+cams

Itb's and cams still don't see much over 200hp though do they? Plus, that would realistically be the same price as a SC anyway. The only huge thing that pulls me towards itb's or jms manifold is the engine note. From the videos I've seen, they sound fantastic.

I'm not bothered about resale as I'm planning to keep it as a long term track b**ch. I'm just trying to get some ideas/opinions on the best way of getting power for the least time/money.

 

[Fletcher]

Itb's and cams still don't see much over 200hp though do they? Plus, that would realistically be the same price as a SC anyway. The only huge thing that pulls me towards itb's or jms manifold is the engine note. From the videos I've seen, they sound fantastic.

I'm not bothered about resale as I'm planning to keep it as a long term track b**ch. I'm just trying to get some ideas/opinions on the best way of getting power for the least time/money.

If you fitted some ITB's and cams, and strippage it would be a awesome track b**ch.

IMO people are too hung up on actual bhp figures rather then how it drives.

 

[rampantreaper]

can someone tell me exactly what is a jms manifold, what it does and how much! cheers.

 

[jack_kemp]

can someone tell me exactly what is a jms manifold, what it does and how much! cheers.

Have a look in the jms trader section.

 

[rampantreaper]

thnx jack and by the way dont go boring itb s go 4wd meggy power or something else interesting!!

 

[jack_kemp]

If you fitted some ITB's and cams, and strippage it would be a awesome track b**ch.

IMO people are too hung up on actual bhp figures rather then how it drives.

I'm hopefully going to get a drive in a cup with a jms manifold and a supercharged one in the near future so that'll be the decision maker for me.

The only thing that puts me off itb's is the huge cost/gain. But as you say, its the useable power that you get that makes it worthwhile.

 

[jack_kemp]

thnx jack and by the way dont go boring itb s go 4wd meggy power or something else interesting!!

4wd! Lol! That would insane.... Unfortunately I don't have £20,000 to throw at a clio.
I think I'm going to end up going for itb's / jms manifold on the cup and buying another engine to satisfy my urge to take on a silly money pit project. At least that way I'll still have a car to use!

 

[rampantreaper]

if you take it off the road for a year to do it you will save.lol. think of all the money you wont be giving the government

 

[172Ben]

I wouldnt bother. Just fit some decent suspension, uprate the brakes, good tyres and strip it.

Thats what ill be doing if i ever get another clio.

Ive had ITB's before so i can vouch for money/sound etc.

 

[sideways danny]

I wouldnt bother. Just fit some decent suspension, uprate the brakes, good tyres and strip it.

stripping cars makes people hate them very quickly, then sell up. Moar powahz > less interior

 

[rampantreaper]

but didnt top gear strip a 206 and it wasnt any fasster cos it upset the cars balance?

 

[jack_kemp]

I wouldnt bother. Just fit some decent suspension, uprate the brakes, good tyres and strip it.

Thats what ill be doing if i ever get another clio.

Ive had ITB's before so i can vouch for money/sound etc.

I've got mintex disks and ds2500 pads already. Only way up is 4 pots really.
Ordering kw v2's on payday and stripping as soon as the mrs gets a new car and i'm given permission

I'm really just looking for a project for the fun of doing it.

Danny, ill be investing in a lovely little diesel daily so it will be ok otherwise, it would be keeping its insides.

 

[bomber]

stripping cars makes people hate them very quickly, then sell up. Moar powahz > less interior

Boost + strippage = even more fun ;-)

 

[shiyan]

Itb's and cams still don't see much over 200hp though do they? Plus, that would realistically be the same price as a SC anyway. The only huge thing that pulls me towards itb's or jms manifold is the engine note. From the videos I've seen, they sound fantastic.

I'm not bothered about resale as I'm planning to keep it as a long term track b**ch. I'm just trying to get some ideas/opinions on the best way of getting power for the least time/money.

If it's going to be a track car, here are some things to consider:
- in my 172 ph1, with the 45L tank, I can do 10 sub 9 minute laps of the 'Ring. A Megane 250 Cup is about half a minute faster but does 5 laps with 60 litres. Boost pretty much tripled the fuel consumption (I had no idea this was the case and was pretty amazed by a thread on Northloop about how many laps people got per tank). Getting more power while staying NA would increase fuel consumption a bit, but not the way a turbo or compressor would.
- besides the greatly increased fuel consumption, the greatly increased power will have some other consequences: your gearbox/driveshaft reliability might suffer, you'll probably need a LSD to help put the power down, 4 pot brake caliper conversion to cope with stopping from higher speeds, bigger rims to fit the calipers, tires will be more expensive due to the larger rims...
- when you eventually get bored with it, you'll probably take a bigger loss than if you didn't modify it as much.

From a financial point of view a turbo 1*2 track car doesn't make much sense, unless you're loaded and it's just a pet project. More sense to save the money to buy a more powerful car.

 

[Gouldy]

unless it is a die hard track car/race car i would not strip it.

i stripped out my old track car before i got another daily and i regretted it after the novelty wore off

 

[jack_kemp]

Shiyan, you make a very good point about the fuel consumption....
What sort of mpg are people seeing from itb'd cars?

I'm not loaded, but I do like to spend what money I do have, on my car. I'm not worried about resale etc as I'm planning to keep it.

 

[Tony Hunter]

In a race we burn 1ltr per min.

 

[justin_]

unless it is a die hard track car/race car i would not strip it.

i stripped out my old track car before i got another daily and i regretted it after the novelty wore off

ii strippedmy mk1 clio after a week tyou get pissed off hearing all the road noises and it gets pretty cold

 

[Tony Hunter]

Might find this interesting.

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?554450-TDF-Hero-content

 

[Šįk]

My advice would be to simpy get a V6 box and decent elbow (no CAF). Matched inlets, decat and finally a custom map to suit.

Done!

Otherwise ul spend ££££'s on only 10bhp more. Put the rest of the money to decent brakes (braided lines, ds2500's and brembo HC's) and coilovers (2nd hand, don't buy new!)

 

[Nick172Cup]

My advice would be to simpy get a V6 box and decent elbow (no CAF). Matched inlets, decat and finally a custom map to suit.

Done!

Otherwise ul spend ££££'s on only 10bhp more. Put the rest of the money to decent brakes (braided lines, ds2500's and brembo HC's) and coilovers (2nd hand, don't buy new!)

As much as i'm a fanboy of the JMS manifold, doing all that work like matched inlets does make a difference but if you work out how much you spend on all of that for the a little extra you could for an RS-2.

Matched inlets - £150
V6 Airbox/ITG filter/Silicon bend - £150
Decat - £70
Cat-back exhaust - £300
Getting it live mapped - £350

Total -£1020.

For the extra £500 pound say you get a completely different power delivery (which makes the car feel a lot faster!), great mpg, reliability and a rather nice induction note

 

[Nick172Cup]

Or you could just buy this.... http://www.cliosport.net/forum/show....5-1-CR-428-s-JE-Pistons-Cat-Rods-NEWLY-BUILT

I'm sure eventually he'll let this go for around £2500 and then you have a seriously powerful car!

 

[172Ben]

I've got mintex disks and ds2500 pads already. Only way up is 4 pots really.
Ordering kw v2's on payday and stripping as soon as the mrs gets a new car and i'm given permission

I'm really just looking for a project for the fun of doing it.

Danny, ill be investing in a lovely little diesel daily so it will be ok otherwise, it would be keeping its insides.

I had 4 pots.

Not needed again really, although they looked cool.

stripping cars makes people hate them very quickly, then sell up. Moar powahz > less interior

I only sold mine as the engine was fooked. Burnt 2.5 litres of oil in about 500 miles, and was like a chimney!

 

[Fred@BTM]

In a race we burn 1ltr per min.

so calling one of those dodgy phone numbers out of the paper is cheaper than racing?

 

[Tony Hunter]

so calling one of those dodgy phone numbers out of the paper is cheaper than racing?

Only just,but not as much fun.