Britain’s new GTi champ - CLIP CUP (according to Autoca

[172Cup]

Its (nearly!!) official.

Todays Autocar (7/8/02) has a road test between the Cooper S and the Cup and the Cup wins,,,,, hands down.

Quote: -
"Take this together with its bold styling, superior driving position and undeniable charm as an object to ogle and what we said eight weeks ago still stands now, that the Mini Cooper S remains the most complete hot hatch ever built. Question is: do you want completeness in your hot hatch or do you want outright fun from it, warts and all"

The Cup wins!!!!

Plus points, performance (Mini in brackets):-
0 - 60: 6.5 (7.6)
0 - 100: 16.9 (21.9)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
30 - 70: 6.7 (7.2)
50 - 70 in top: 7.9 (13.3)!!!!!!!!!!!!

Negative points: -
Lack of control from the seat: Im changing to the same ones in my Scooby so no worries here.

Initial lack of handling feedback:- Ill put 17"s on. That should sort it.

Lets hope that the car in real life is indeed true to a magazine test!!!!

 

[BenR]

lack of feed back!
then why put 17s on? then youll only feel the ants on the road and not what the car is doin!

 

[172Cup]

On the Impreza, bigger wheels improve the actual control and feedback although it does ruin the ride comfort and also makes it niggly and follows cambers etc. For me this is how I like to drive. It suits my style knowing exactly where I am on the road. Im not bothered about loosing some comfort.

 

[Captain Slarty]

but, does it improve things..... ?

I consider that if you make it niggly and follows cambers etc then you have upset the handling, not improved it.

??

there is a lot to be said for learning to drive the car as is so that objective comparisons can be made.

Joe

 

[172Cup]

Do not disagree and will be doing some testing when I get the car. I am going to develop a lightweight TechnoMagnesio wheel (mag alloy)with the correct offsets etc for the 172/172 Cup (assuming the offsets on both are the same),,,,

,,,,So will report back which is the most compliant, as if I can reduce the unsprung weight, it may improve the feedback without the usual downsides.

 

[Captain Slarty]

the feedback is not so dependent on the unsprung weight m8..
the unsprung weigh reduction will allow better contact profile and faster reaction (with an appropriate shock absorber - may need to be lighter than normal in dampening terms ?)

the feedback is probably better sorted by castor angles as they have already attempted on the cup.

considering the feedback on a 172 is already pretty bloody good then the subtle changes renault have made to the lower mount may well be enough.

Joe

 

[172Cup]

Having only test drove a demo 172, which I felt was like driving dead wood (a Ka was better) I still plumped for a Clio as I felt this is an area that I know I can improve upon. This may have only been that one Clio and is not necessarily applied to all 172s. I need to drive another to be sure.

What are the feelings re the seats? The ones in the 172 (Cup is same but in cloth only I believe) were not very good, too high, wrong position etc that I will change them. Had the same problem in the Impreza01. Standard seats were sh*te, so we developed a leather/Alcantara seat with Cobra that cost £2,100 (including the rears) and are so bad, we refused to deal with them as they would not change and were no way similar to the test seats. These have now been dumped for Konig seats which have so far been proven to be excellent and they do the frames for a 172 already.

 

[Captain Slarty]

you will notice absolutely no difference in performance between 172 std and 172 cup bargain basement.

If you have not been in a std 172, then you have missed out..

where are you located ?.. I am sure someone will take you for a realistic appraisal, as the test drive you had seems to have been a problem.

the seats btw, are excellent, no adverse comments at all. and leather / alcantra as std.. lol..



Joe

 

[Colin_S]

172 up, who do you work for. I keep seeing that you developed seats and are devolping wheels. Can you supply the Technomagnesio Wheels to the Trade?

 

[172Cup]

Yes. I am a director of a company that is the offcial UK importer for Technomagnesio. The seats were for a Scooby and is for another company concentrating on Subarus.

 

[ChavyBoy]

Ok do we get a special discount cause we can show you are Clioposrt membership cards ?

Seriouly are they expensive for say a 17" that looks similar to a Super Leggy ?

 

[BenR]

agree with capt,
seats are great and even on a track you probably wont see any diff between a std 172 and a cup. if it had another 40bhp then thats another matter, but they didnt bother with the engine!
i dont care abuot 3mm lower etc. although the increased castor could be beneficial on a track.

the driving position is high? then use the height adjusters!!!

and you only really need ot sit low in a race car, C of G as you know, its not for the view. I sit fairly high so i knowexactly what is goin on in/on the road.

 

[ChavyBoy]

BenR,

I dont think the cup seats are height adjustable.

 

[geordiepaul]

The seat do adjust for height but they also tilt slightly too!

 

[ChavyBoy]

Sorry m8 you are right but I am sure I see it somewehere that it didnt, I must have been thinking about the rear seats not spliting.

 

[OutKa5t]

Just bought the Mag and its nice to see such a convincing win for the Clio

Dave

 

[JoZeFF]

Hey 172 Cup...

Do u have an impreza WRX?? (the turbocharged one...) if so how does it compare with the 172?? just curious... as many say theres not much in it around twisties etc between a new model WRX and a Clio 172 even thou the WRX is faster

 

[172Cup]

With the caveat "it depends on the competence of each driver",,, I can say with complete conviction that an Impreza is quicker than a 172. Period!!!

 

[GR7]

"...by the time they reach 60mph the Clio has already humiliated the Cooper, thrashing it with a punishing 1.1 sec quicker time of 6.5 sec.

At 100mph the Renault is LONG GONE, screaming past three figures in a genuinely impressive 16.9 sec, exactly five seconds quicker than the Cooper!!"

 

[BenR]

um, thanks GR?

 

[GR7]

Have you got your bits sorted Ben?

 

[Eddd]

Off to the dealer. I was debating with myself until now. The top gear acceleration is decieving though as the MINI Cooper S has a 6th gear. Id be willing to bet it is a bit taller than the Cups and 172s but I havent seen the figures side by side. I would think that the naturally aspirated engine in the Cup will last longer than the supercharged lump in the MINI Cooper S.

And Scoobys are really fast especially the Sti versions and the RA stripper is fairly light as well. But my Evo 6 Tommi Makinen wil see most of them off. Too bad the authorities here wont matriculate the shaggin thing!

 

[teady172]

Where do they get the 979KG from, thats about the 4th different weight I have seen quoted!!

 

[Matbrown]

Going back to people saying that you can make the 172 lose enough weight to match the clio cup.
I just cant see it!
The cup has a lot of toys missing and i think that renault have underestimated thw weight they have saved, we all know how good they are with scales!?!

Mat.

 

[Matbrown]

Going back to people saying that you can make the 172 lose enough weight to match the clio cup.
I just cant see it!
The cup has a lot of toys missing and i think that renault have underestimated the weight they have saved, we all know how good they are with scales!?!

Mat.

 

[JoZeFF]

Ohh okay... so how much faster is the wrx?? on a scale of 1-10 (10 being completely killing the clio), how much faster is it overall? sorry to bug u man.. just curious thats all...

 

[geordiepaul]

That would be a 0!!

 

[172Cup]

Ok, lets expand this caveat:-
1) It depends on the driver
2) It depends on the conditions.

With the same driver over the same course, standard 172 and standard WRX (dont think ive ever seen one) the following conditions will realise the following: -

1) Dry - Not that much in all due respect

2) Wet - No contest. The Impreza is a massively capable machine in all conditions and in these conditions (very common in the UK) the performance advantage is huge.

Also, there are simple mods that, made to an Impreza, will liberate major power increases. Also the BHP quoted in a standard WRX, 215, is not correct. Standard cars dynoed show 225 - 230 BHP. Modified with an exhaust will provide up to 255 BHP. There are dynos to prove it.

 

[Leigh]

So with you all arguing about this !! Are any of you actually gonna get one ??
I see that the chap with the scooby and the lotus has ordered one from somewhere !!

From what I can see !! The big difference between the cup and the 172 is weight and lack of toys !! Slightly wider track and a better castor angle.
Oh and did i forget to mention QUICKER !!

All in all i MAKE IT THE THINKING MANS 172.
nO ABS oh what joy !! nO PART ALCANTRA, EXCELLENT !! oH AND NO SAD HEADLAMP WASHER JETS THAT STICK OUT. INSTEAD NICE LITTLE RETACTABLE ONES THAT ARE OUT OF HARMS WAY !!

wHILST YOU LOT ARGUE ABOUT EM !! Ill have fun selling em!! Laters dudes
!!

 

[Pugboy]

yes, me.

 

[Tim Lennox]

Ive also bought one - great!!! Captain Slarty seems to think their is no difference between the standard 172 and the cup - I beg to differ, along with the emgineers and designers at Renault Sport etc etc oh and all the mags - any car that d0 100 in 16.7secs and in doing so matching the scooby wrx Sti cant be bad in my books. Drove the standard 172 for a test drive with the knowledge that yes it is incredible but the cup will defo better the best!!??

 

[Tim Lennox]

PS We should get the Renault sport engineers to explain properly to those sceptics on the forum who think that the cup is no different whatsoever to the standard 172...........Im sure they would sort out a few things

 

[Pillesnoppen]

172Cup, what MY is your scooby? Mines on Paul Strongs Dyno site, came out 245bhp on the rollers at Power Engineering, with a Scoobysport rear box and Ramair filter. Bloody awesome in the wet, it was.

I wasnt so taken by the new scooby, too heavy and not as explosive, so Ive sort of gone off them now, which is a shame.

 

[172Cup]

The MY is 2001. This is my 6th Scooby and yes, its the heaviest, but its actually a faster car in terms of cross country driving or on track as its much stiffer so one can load up the suspension better. Seeing as its as much a development car, were working on improving the BHP & torque to +300 levels with a system that can switch to different modes, i.e. normal (230ish), performance (300ish) and maybe valet mode (max of 4,000 rpm - so not as to let theives/unauthorised driver thrashing the nuts off it), but at these levels things like brakes, suspension must be uprated. No internals/gearbox/clutch etc need to be uprated. Will only work for MY2001+ cars.

 

[teady172]

Any car that can do 0-100 in 17.3 is fast as well!(MK2 172)

 

[Captain Slarty]

Hi Leigh

oH AND NO SAD HEADLAMP WASHER JETS THAT STICK OUT. INSTEAD NICE LITTLE RETACTABLE ONES THAT ARE OUT OF HARMS WAY !!


hmmmmmmmmm lol .. as with most things (or lack of) on the thinking mans cup... the washers are SOOOOOOOO retractable that they have been retracted back to the reno factory dood.....

A real man would, of course, be able to live with that omission....



Joe

 

[blaze]

TOUCHEEEEEEE!!!!!!!

Captn

 

[Rich-D]

"Any car that can do 0-100 in 17.3 is fast as well!(MK2 172)"


Good point mate!

Have been looking at buying summat that does 0-100 in the 15s today though...