Ok so heres the scenario….
Purchased the other half a present 3 years ago in the shape of a Dynamique S Mk3.
Was easily the most stressless car ownership ever, 1 visit to a dealership in its time of ownership for a service and to fix a ticking noise from a fan. However, as the 3 year deal was ending it was time to review other new choices.
There was some schools of thought on a change of marque, but my other half was happy with the clio size and shape. Given my own fascination with the RS range (owning a mk2 172 from new and having done 20k in a meg 175 lux) I have always liked the mk3 RS shape and felt it would be worth looking into.
SO, we found a localish 09 reg lux 197, perfect for a butchers at. Went and was impressed with the product, but lack of cup chassis and movement on price ended the interest. Therefore the search continued, rather strangely we did quite like the lux, so looked at a 2nd bite at the cherry, by asking another employee of the group to try and source a better deal. This sadly wasn’t possible owing to franchise setup, however was alerted to a 57 reg R27 in my favourite R27 colour of Nimbus.
An innocent visit to look at it and have a potter around in it, ended somewhat surprisingly in its purchase, which wasn’t the proposal at the outset of the day, So now that’s a month ago I thought id be good to review the Mk3 197 R27 v the Mk2 172.
With a gap of 4 years between the two cars it makes for interesting reading, summarised as below: -
Mk2 172 - 53 reg - 77k miles V Mk3 R27 - 57 reg - 13k miles
Styling – Interior
The 172 is let down by the silly sized bus like steering wheel, which really does now look out of place. The dark blue shades are also a little long in the tooth. However it is relatively well kitted out for the money at the time (£12,5k). Usual build quality matters with rattly noisy buzzing fan unit in light cluster and general creeks and the like.
R27 is a strange one, benefits from the optional folding mirrors, which is class, but is robbed of the climate its older brother had, whilst that isn’t the end of the world, the central console in silver is nice, but ruined by the lazyness of the start stop button on the wrong side, but its nice to have a keyless environment.
Steering wheel is chunky, nice to hold and streets ahead of the 172. So weighing it up bar the ‘black’ air vents its first blood to the R27 – and that’s without even whispering the word recaros!! Which are superb, hard to get in and out of if your bit clumsy, but avoid snagging the bolster and you are tucked in with a good driving position, adding to the sense of special ness of this limited run car.
Styling – Exterior
The 172 is streets ahead of the standard car with the xenons, ‘RS’ grille and optional cup splitter, it makes an aggressive package. Combined with the added ‘decked’ appearance on coilovers it’s a good looking pup, if a million miles away from the current Clio 200.
On the side skirts its nice to see flared profiles and a different arch, 2.0 bullets complete the profile, if a little lost on the silver paint. Rear is tastefully finished by the ‘trophy’ spoiler and boot struts, more presence to what is otherwise a boggo standard Clio rear end.
The R27 in front on guise is very appealing with the optional graphics retained, however owing to lack of aftermarket splitter and a naked mk3 rear end, its lacking the same sense of occasion as the 172. That said an optional Elia spoiler and splitter will certainly bring this on, however it’s the side skirts and detailing that are more impressive with the clever appearance of a side vent in each arch, which shows creative beyond the 172s original approach.
However, the 172 still edges it, even with the diffuser on the 197 its lack of rear spoiler is a mistake from Renault, which again is apparent in the 200, with the lesser GT looking more the part with the ‘GT’ spoiler. Kinda reminds me of the Megane RS Dci 175, which did without a rear spoiler (WHY?)
So 1-1 and now onto the interesting stuff… the ride.
Ride – Handling and Chassis.
The 172 was created in an era undominated by Cup chassis, cup wheels, cup spoilers, cup splitters. There was clarity in the range. The mk2 172 and the mk2 172 Cup (aka the light one), yes we’ve all heard the stories about the cup beating Ferraris, R8s, pagani zondas and the like, but it’s a good bit of kit as has been shown in fairly okish residuals for a 7-8 year old ‘hot hatch’.
However the 172 in standard guise was still a great package, good tight handling in corners, without being too crashy or abrasive. The car in question has coilovers though and these raise the game somewhat, lower by some margin, ability to corner at great speed, they really do make you believe you are on rails.
There is a compromise to this however, they are brick hard and for every day use the car is a bit of a mare in town environments and can get a tad tiresome in heavy residential areas and when lumbered with this fantastic countries potted and rutted roads. So it’s a love hate affair. Great when in the mood and sailing down a B road, but annoying when not.
R27 – believe the hype im afraid. The chassis for a standard car is quite simply a peach. Show it any corner with great gusto and you are rewarded by a surefooted chassis and nimble handling which rewards an aggressive approach to cornering. Dabbing the 4 pot brembos to lose steam the chassis rarely feels out of its depth and could easily handle more speed if the 2.0 n/a could breathe a bit more and have a more punchy bit of fire in its belly.
So in standard like for like guise the R27 romps it. With the coilovered 172 its different, but purely for the day to day live-a-bility- factor the R27 just shades it, but not by much.
Performance.
Well looking at 0-60 times and top speeds there isn’t much in it really. 7.2 to 60 v 6.9 to 60. So what does that mean? Not a lot. Lets look at it from an evolution point of view.
Tougher regulations on emissions have played havoc with things, the requirement for renaultsport to offer a cutting edge engine but as well as retain value for money has sort of been maintained, but for me the value aspect sees a tick in the 172s box.
Quite simply with the 5k kick, 168bhp or so in standard guise it’s a great package and doesn’t have a load of weight to lug around. It is hampered by its lack of top end and will die at 120mph or so, but that loses the essence of what this car is about, it’s a B road basher, not a straight line cruiser. Couple 30-38mpg or so and it’s a competitive and hard to beat package.
Step forward the R27, sounds great on paper ‘25’bhp more than the 172, so it must slaughter it? Err not quite. Ok it has the revised 6 speed box, but the 25bhp is not even remotely noticeable. Instead it has a nice growl to it when cruising and moving along at pace, it certainly on the same wavelength as the 172 with the lack of top end speed obvious, but for me the standard 197 map is pretty poor, too many flat spots and its not evolved as much as I would have liked.
My own 172 isnt standard so its not fair to compare on that basis, but id say that based on the poorer Mpg of the 197 and no real big gain in performance that I can see, it’s a feather in the 172s cap.
Gearbox
Never a Renault strong point this one.
But in the 172, it’s a sloppy pretty poor affair and not got a very short throw or precise feel to it, could be so much better. Gearing has been identified in reviews as being snarling and at 4k in 5th its 80mpg, which isn’t unusual for a n/a petrol it can be a tad wearing, but not that unusual.
R27 is a different affair, with this matter the 4 year gap is more noticeable between these cars, the 6 speed box is a little oddly stacked with 3rd to 4th being a bit pointless and skipping of gears in town pretty much required as otherwise you end up with a left thigh muscle like a bodybuilder constantly strring the box.
For this one the R27 wins, it’s a nice tight box and has a good feel to it.
So 3-2 the R27.
In 4 years its moved on, but give the car a slightly more aggressive look, better mpg (im getting 28/29 off the R27 which is decent, but 36 off the 172 all day easily!) and a little more attention to detail interior wise and it’s a clear winner, however as it stands the mk2 172 is still worthy to be considered in the same breath as the R27.
Just a shame that the R27 will have the edge with its limited status and its only 1 of 23 of its type!
Will hopefully get a few videos versus them at some point. The 172 im guessing with its wee tweaks will be ahead.
Purchased the other half a present 3 years ago in the shape of a Dynamique S Mk3.
Was easily the most stressless car ownership ever, 1 visit to a dealership in its time of ownership for a service and to fix a ticking noise from a fan. However, as the 3 year deal was ending it was time to review other new choices.
There was some schools of thought on a change of marque, but my other half was happy with the clio size and shape. Given my own fascination with the RS range (owning a mk2 172 from new and having done 20k in a meg 175 lux) I have always liked the mk3 RS shape and felt it would be worth looking into.
SO, we found a localish 09 reg lux 197, perfect for a butchers at. Went and was impressed with the product, but lack of cup chassis and movement on price ended the interest. Therefore the search continued, rather strangely we did quite like the lux, so looked at a 2nd bite at the cherry, by asking another employee of the group to try and source a better deal. This sadly wasn’t possible owing to franchise setup, however was alerted to a 57 reg R27 in my favourite R27 colour of Nimbus.
An innocent visit to look at it and have a potter around in it, ended somewhat surprisingly in its purchase, which wasn’t the proposal at the outset of the day, So now that’s a month ago I thought id be good to review the Mk3 197 R27 v the Mk2 172.
With a gap of 4 years between the two cars it makes for interesting reading, summarised as below: -
Mk2 172 - 53 reg - 77k miles V Mk3 R27 - 57 reg - 13k miles
Styling – Interior
The 172 is let down by the silly sized bus like steering wheel, which really does now look out of place. The dark blue shades are also a little long in the tooth. However it is relatively well kitted out for the money at the time (£12,5k). Usual build quality matters with rattly noisy buzzing fan unit in light cluster and general creeks and the like.
R27 is a strange one, benefits from the optional folding mirrors, which is class, but is robbed of the climate its older brother had, whilst that isn’t the end of the world, the central console in silver is nice, but ruined by the lazyness of the start stop button on the wrong side, but its nice to have a keyless environment.
Steering wheel is chunky, nice to hold and streets ahead of the 172. So weighing it up bar the ‘black’ air vents its first blood to the R27 – and that’s without even whispering the word recaros!! Which are superb, hard to get in and out of if your bit clumsy, but avoid snagging the bolster and you are tucked in with a good driving position, adding to the sense of special ness of this limited run car.
Styling – Exterior
The 172 is streets ahead of the standard car with the xenons, ‘RS’ grille and optional cup splitter, it makes an aggressive package. Combined with the added ‘decked’ appearance on coilovers it’s a good looking pup, if a million miles away from the current Clio 200.
On the side skirts its nice to see flared profiles and a different arch, 2.0 bullets complete the profile, if a little lost on the silver paint. Rear is tastefully finished by the ‘trophy’ spoiler and boot struts, more presence to what is otherwise a boggo standard Clio rear end.
The R27 in front on guise is very appealing with the optional graphics retained, however owing to lack of aftermarket splitter and a naked mk3 rear end, its lacking the same sense of occasion as the 172. That said an optional Elia spoiler and splitter will certainly bring this on, however it’s the side skirts and detailing that are more impressive with the clever appearance of a side vent in each arch, which shows creative beyond the 172s original approach.
However, the 172 still edges it, even with the diffuser on the 197 its lack of rear spoiler is a mistake from Renault, which again is apparent in the 200, with the lesser GT looking more the part with the ‘GT’ spoiler. Kinda reminds me of the Megane RS Dci 175, which did without a rear spoiler (WHY?)
So 1-1 and now onto the interesting stuff… the ride.
Ride – Handling and Chassis.
The 172 was created in an era undominated by Cup chassis, cup wheels, cup spoilers, cup splitters. There was clarity in the range. The mk2 172 and the mk2 172 Cup (aka the light one), yes we’ve all heard the stories about the cup beating Ferraris, R8s, pagani zondas and the like, but it’s a good bit of kit as has been shown in fairly okish residuals for a 7-8 year old ‘hot hatch’.
However the 172 in standard guise was still a great package, good tight handling in corners, without being too crashy or abrasive. The car in question has coilovers though and these raise the game somewhat, lower by some margin, ability to corner at great speed, they really do make you believe you are on rails.
There is a compromise to this however, they are brick hard and for every day use the car is a bit of a mare in town environments and can get a tad tiresome in heavy residential areas and when lumbered with this fantastic countries potted and rutted roads. So it’s a love hate affair. Great when in the mood and sailing down a B road, but annoying when not.
R27 – believe the hype im afraid. The chassis for a standard car is quite simply a peach. Show it any corner with great gusto and you are rewarded by a surefooted chassis and nimble handling which rewards an aggressive approach to cornering. Dabbing the 4 pot brembos to lose steam the chassis rarely feels out of its depth and could easily handle more speed if the 2.0 n/a could breathe a bit more and have a more punchy bit of fire in its belly.
So in standard like for like guise the R27 romps it. With the coilovered 172 its different, but purely for the day to day live-a-bility- factor the R27 just shades it, but not by much.
Performance.
Well looking at 0-60 times and top speeds there isn’t much in it really. 7.2 to 60 v 6.9 to 60. So what does that mean? Not a lot. Lets look at it from an evolution point of view.
Tougher regulations on emissions have played havoc with things, the requirement for renaultsport to offer a cutting edge engine but as well as retain value for money has sort of been maintained, but for me the value aspect sees a tick in the 172s box.
Quite simply with the 5k kick, 168bhp or so in standard guise it’s a great package and doesn’t have a load of weight to lug around. It is hampered by its lack of top end and will die at 120mph or so, but that loses the essence of what this car is about, it’s a B road basher, not a straight line cruiser. Couple 30-38mpg or so and it’s a competitive and hard to beat package.
Step forward the R27, sounds great on paper ‘25’bhp more than the 172, so it must slaughter it? Err not quite. Ok it has the revised 6 speed box, but the 25bhp is not even remotely noticeable. Instead it has a nice growl to it when cruising and moving along at pace, it certainly on the same wavelength as the 172 with the lack of top end speed obvious, but for me the standard 197 map is pretty poor, too many flat spots and its not evolved as much as I would have liked.
My own 172 isnt standard so its not fair to compare on that basis, but id say that based on the poorer Mpg of the 197 and no real big gain in performance that I can see, it’s a feather in the 172s cap.
Gearbox
Never a Renault strong point this one.
But in the 172, it’s a sloppy pretty poor affair and not got a very short throw or precise feel to it, could be so much better. Gearing has been identified in reviews as being snarling and at 4k in 5th its 80mpg, which isn’t unusual for a n/a petrol it can be a tad wearing, but not that unusual.
R27 is a different affair, with this matter the 4 year gap is more noticeable between these cars, the 6 speed box is a little oddly stacked with 3rd to 4th being a bit pointless and skipping of gears in town pretty much required as otherwise you end up with a left thigh muscle like a bodybuilder constantly strring the box.
For this one the R27 wins, it’s a nice tight box and has a good feel to it.
So 3-2 the R27.
In 4 years its moved on, but give the car a slightly more aggressive look, better mpg (im getting 28/29 off the R27 which is decent, but 36 off the 172 all day easily!) and a little more attention to detail interior wise and it’s a clear winner, however as it stands the mk2 172 is still worthy to be considered in the same breath as the R27.
Just a shame that the R27 will have the edge with its limited status and its only 1 of 23 of its type!
Will hopefully get a few videos versus them at some point. The 172 im guessing with its wee tweaks will be ahead.
