Building a Server?

[Chapster5]

Ok guys never done this before... but since im no stranger to computer systems a friend of mine has asked me to build a Server for his business (starting small of about upto 5 client computers).

Now I've never dabbled with servers... never needed to. Always run small home networks through my router which has built in DHCP. Now where do I start is it a case of building a normal computer but with Windows Server 2008 software on? What would be a recommended software to go with. Do I need a server shell or can a normal computer case suffice. I have been told I need a switch (been advised a HP 1080) then run this way...

Internet into Server

Server and Clients into Switch.

Now the server must be easily expandable as the business grows (in 5 years time up to 10 clients roughly)

Also with Server 2008 do all clients need to run Vista? Or is XP / 7 Ok too?

Many thanks for answer... Server Virgin here...

Nick

 

[Adam.]

XP/7/Vista will all work. Even Mac OSX.

What is his budget?

 

[Chapster5]

He doesn't as such have a budget, he says he will pay what he needs to pay really. Cheap and cheerful as possible though. He knows you have to spend money to get quality.

Cheers mate

Nick

 

[sargey]

Buy one from Dell, with SBS Standard on it.

Job done.

No point in scrimping if it's going to run the business.

 

[Silent_Scone]

If his needs are fairly small, a reliable system will do just fine...Depends on his budget. What sort of storage requirement is he looking at? UPS? What are the needs, will they be memory hungry... etc.

You may just be better off pointing him in DELLs direction. If not only for warranty reasons. It's all well and good building someones life line for billy bob rates and then when the PSU goes up in smoke he's calling you a so and so

 

[Chapster5]

He's having me run his server and his computers. Employing me so I would rather know the system in and out for future references...

That's another thing, storage I have found this

http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalog?q=network+storage&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=13444248015014707963&sa=X&ei=-1QpT6c3griEB6ytgbYF&ved=0CJ4BEPICMAI

Which I could just put a couple of 1TB HDDs in would that work? He would need something to store files on the network but also for it to backup as it goes along without much human intervention. As I say ive never touched this before but I am very keen to learn. Its not going to be a memory hungry server, he will be running a parts cataloguing software and emails and ability to print off the network. Real simple basic server stuff I guess.

Cheers guys

Nick

 

[KDF]

Buy one from Dell, with SBS Standard on it.

Job done.

No point in scrimping if it's going to run the business.

This.

 

[Adam.]

Hmm... lol

 

[sargey]

He's having me run his server and his computers. Employing me so I would rather know the system in and out for future references...

That's another thing, storage I have found this

http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalog?q=network+storage&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=13444248015014707963&sa=X&ei=-1QpT6c3griEB6ytgbYF&ved=0CJ4BEPICMAI

Which I could just put a couple of 1TB HDDs in would that work? He would need something to store files on the network but also for it to backup as it goes along without much human intervention. As I say ive never touched this before but I am very keen to learn. Its not going to be a memory hungry server, he will be running a parts cataloguing software and emails and ability to print off the network. Real simple basic server stuff I guess.

Cheers guys

Nick

He's getting someone with no server experience to look after his server?

:quiet:

 

[Chapster5]

Yep,

Im the only guy he knows who is as good as computers as I am and he trusts me... Its a no brainer.

Since im a fast learner I told him I will do it all for him anyway computers... EASY... Server just need the basics in place for a decent enough simple small business network... File Sharing, Printer Sharing, Possible applications run off the server to Clients. Doesnt seem a tall order to learn now does it?

Nick

 

[Gray]

www.Dell.co.uk

Less hassle and warranty.

 

[Chapster5]

Been looking at Dell... Looking at one of these...

http://www.dell.com/uk/business/p/poweredge-t310/pd?oc=sv4t310&model_id=poweredge-t310&

Comes with

Microsoft SBS 2011, Essentials Edition,

Intel Core I3-540 CPU and 4GB RAM

Should be good to start from?

Nick

 

[Adam.]

Do you know what Active Directory is?

Do you know what RAID is?

Without touching Google....

 

[The Fatty]

Do you know what Active Directory is?

Do you know what RAID is?

Without touching Google....

+1, also if you only want basic services like file sharing/printer sharing, surely he would be better off with a NAS drive (or an old SNAP server)? I also dont see why you would need to route the internet through the server if your not going to monitor the usage etc? And any make of switch will work for such a simple setup (just make sure its a gigabit switch).

 

[The Fatty]

P.S, are you planning on using active directory and setting up a domain at all? Or does he just want it for users to dial into (over RDP)?

 

[mace¬]

If his motto is it costs what it costs for both of your sakes tell him to get a pro in.Thats my advice.

 

[Chapster5]

Do you know what Active Directory is?

Do you know what RAID is?

Without touching Google....

Not really and I know raid has something to do with the hard drives

Never looked into either never had to

And fatty,

I'd prefer to start early in routing the Internet through the server so when expansion inevitably comes its a case of adding a client permission to the Internet than having to change all the routing of the clients to the server then set permissions. I have no idea what a snap server is

Nick

 

[The Fatty]

If his motto is it costs what it costs for both of your sakes tell him to get a pro in.Thats my advice.

Yes I have seen a lot of servers which have been setup by dablers and they have been a nightmaire; group policys that contradict each other, lack of security policys etc!

 

[The Fatty]

Not really and I know raid has something to do with the hard drives

Never looked into either never had to

And fatty,

I'd prefer to start early in routing the Internet through the server so when expansion inevitably comes its a case of adding a client permission to the Internet than having to change all the routing of the clients to the server then set permissions. I have no idea what a snap server is

Nick

You dont need to route the traffic via the server to do that, a domain controller with a user/group security policy would do this...

 

[The Fatty]

also im not saying dont do it, just make sure its well planned out before you start and you know about all the relivant things you need to know about. you will find people do thing in different ways (for exanmple I prefer RAID-10 as opposed to RAID-5 as this gives a faster recuvery time if one of the drives fail), you just need to make sure the way you have chossen works best for the ompany and meets the needs. If they just want basic file sharing at the moment, then a NAS server (such as freeNAS, which is free) would fit the bill better than a fully fledged 2008 SBS system.

 

[Chapster5]

See this is why I'm here... To learn before I make any mistakes. He wouldn't get a pro in for the fact he wants to keep his business close quartered between family and friends.

I want to learn and not be palmed off with answers such as... Get a pro what will I learn from that?

Nick

 

[The Fatty]

also in referance to my last post, a freeNAS box wouldnt need the most powerful hardware, I actually know people that have it running on old 400Mhz systems without problems (not sure if this ouwl help remove your need to make sure the hardware is future proof)

 

[Chapster5]

Cheers fatty that's the kind of advice I need

Where to start so to speak I still have around 3 weeks to a month before he is fitting systems into his office (as its still under construction )

I need to know what systems would be best for the setup he needs and what OS and what kind of setup like you say don't run clients through the server for the internet

Nick

 

[mace¬]

See this is why I'm here... To learn before I make any mistakes. He wouldn't get a pro in for the fact he wants to keep his business close quartered between family and friends.

I want to learn and not be palmed off with answers such as... Get a pro what will I learn from that?

Nick

OK, fair enough but why not get him to get someone in and you shadow them. With work tight at the moment there must be independant looking for work who need the work and would be willing.

That way he gets both of best worlds

 

[Chapster5]

OK, fair enough but why not get him to get someone in and you shadow them. With work tight at the moment there must be independant looking for work who need the work and would be willing.

That way he gets both of best worlds

I suppose he could I will have to mention it to him since there is still a bit of time I could pretty much learn what to do in that time and how to go about it so hopefully wouldn't come to that but just incase the option is always there. Fatty that freeNAS I've had a quick look do you know if it can host applications and clients can boot from the application on the server rather than have it locally on the machine.

Thanks

Nick

 

[The Fatty]

Network wise, I would always run 2 NICs inside the server connected back the switch and have them load balancing, this allows multiple clients to acces the server at the same time without causing too much of a bottleneck at the server. As for the client machines, if they are to be fat clients (which i expect they are), I would install Windows 7 prof (this allows RDP to be used ot each machine, meaning they can connect to there computer from home with the aid of either port forwarding or a VPN). Regarding the server, you need to really find out the full requierments before I can advise. If they do want a VPN, then Windows Server would be a good option as it is fairly easy to setup when compaired to a Linux system, works well with Windows clients, has active directory and allows for you to setup a VPN termination point. However, like I siad before, if it really is just file sharing, then I would suggest freeNAS of the likes of. Printers can be shared from the client computers or even better, buy network enabled printers.

 

[sbridgey]

So you have never touched windows server before and your setting it up!

TBH the basics aren't too difficult but i have heard MS Exchange is a pig to set up.

Active Directory is the system used on a windows based network to authenticate and authorise user logins within the domain. User accounts are setup within the active directory on the server so users can login at any machine in the domain.

RAID is usually used for backup purposes using either mirroring or parity blocks, it can also be used for speed by striping data across hard discs, it usually supported on the motherboard but is also supported in the operating system as software RAID, hardware RAID (on the motherboard or add in card) is better in most cases.

You know anything about switches?

 

[Chapster5]

Big thanks guys now we are cooking

Fatty,

That is great info ill take it into account I'll post up later tomorrow when I have a meeting with my friend I'll list everything he expects from the server and what he wants to do with it.

Sbridgey,

Many thanks for that information! I have defiantly heard of active directory then only I've heard it called roaming profiles. As for raid am I best getting an external network raid stack which will back up the network 24/7 just incase of emergency? Like the one I posted earlier.

As for switches I'm a 100% network virgin but I have a great ability to absorb information like a sponge in these kind of things. Ive also always wanted to learn this side of computers also wanted a job in it and since one has cropped up I'm jumping at the opportunity and also to impress

Thank you guys so much!

Nick

 

[sbridgey]

Right switches can either be very very easy or very complicated to setup depending on what you want to do with them.

Personally i would go with a cisco one as i know how to set them up.

Your switch should have security on it to stop end users destroying the network!

You can setup VLAN's to divide traffic up so managers and staff can access different parts of the network.

Switch port security can be used to stop users plugging in their laptops and possibly harming the network, it will work using MAC addresses and you can set it so that it will only allow the MAC address of the NIC of the computer designated to that switch port and if the incorrect MAC addressed NIC connects the port is automatically disabled.

Many other things can be done to switches but it will take me an ages to teach you essentially CCNA 3 on an internet forum!

If you want to learn about switches download Cisco packet tracer, you will be able to set up your network virtually and set it all up.

 

[BruceTea]

There's clearly a lot of technical knowledge in here but the talk of VLAN'd Cisco gigabit switches serving dual NIC'd load balanced servers seems somewhat overkill for a 5 client setup!

Follow the Dell SBS bundle route, simple unmanaged switch, and get yourself a beginners guide to SBS. Forget about traffic management and people connecting rogue devices - in an office of 5, if you caught anyone touching anything just unplug the switch and ram it up their arse!

 

[The Fatty]

switches are only layer 2 of the ISO model (data link layer) and dont provide any form of real security. Are you talking about 'smart switches' which are a hybrid of a router and a switch that can inspect packets? :S Also I dont think VLANs are needed tbh!

For a business thats just getting setup on the IT side with only 5 users, I would not be spending big bucks on cisco hardware. You need just a simple gigabit network (making sure you use CAT6 cabling) via a normal switch (which is just plug and play, so nothing to setup as such). You will probably have a router built into the ADSL modem, which can be used for more advanced network security features beside MAC address filtering.

 

[The Fatty]

Fatty that freeNAS I've had a quick look do you know if it can host applications and clients can boot from the application on the server rather than have it locally on the machine.

Nick

If the application is a simple executable, then yes. If you mean applications which have to be installed, then no. The only way you can do this as far as I know is using a thin client setup (or using RDP into WS2008). Other please correct me if I am wrong on this...

 

[The Fatty]

If the application is a simple executable, then yes.

I should have said the executable gets run on the client machine in my previous post, althougth the file is launched from the server

 

[Adam.]

lol @ vlans for 5 client setup.

Get it all written out with what you want before you start then it will save you a headache in the future. I had a Mark Minassi book for Server 2003, not sure if he does one for 2008 but it was the best book I've ever bought.

I'm not gonna say don't do it as this is how I learned at the age of 13 and now it's my full time job.

Forget about routing the internet through the server. That is a serious ballache and not worth it. (for what it is worth, on some of the financial networks I manage, not one of them has internet filtering on).

Exchange....a bit over kill, stick with something like Google apps.

File sharing is a piece of piss as is printers but deploy the printers with group policy, that way you wont be running round 5 computers changing stuff.

A normal gigabit switch will be fine.

Also I'd spec Server 2008 R2 standard for the extra £230.

Oh and roaming profiles is completely different from active directory

 

[sbridgey]

lol @ vlans for 5 client setup.

He knows nothing about switches, i was just pointing out features that maybe useful either now or in the future.

 

[sbridgey]

switches are only layer 2 of the ISO model (data link layer) and dont provide any form of real security. Are you talking about 'smart switches' which are a hybrid of a router and a switch that can inspect packets? :S Also I dont think VLANs are needed tbh!

Incorrect, layer 2 switches used on the access layer should have security on them, you are thinking about IDS or something like i believe. I agree clan are not required, i was just explaining some features of switches.

 

[Chapster5]

Right it's all getting fun an games now

So many interesting factors to think about I think I'll be going with a basic gigabit switch for now as 2 computers will be plugged in for the first few months - a year then slowly going up from there. Router wise I'm assuming he will be using ADSL depending what Company he goes with do I could just plug the router into the switch and use its filter functions for MAC addresses as it progresses. As for the server if I do the above setup what would the server be good for? Just file storage and backup Im assuming? What would be a good method of going about backups EG using an external RAID stack with that hotswap feature so you don't have to switch it off to change hard drives about?

Thanks guys

Nick

 

[@Spoonie]

Don't take this the wrong way but reading some of the posts I think you are taking on too much at this stage. Why don't you have your friend get someone in and you shadow them?

Going forward you could maintain the system and build on the knowlege gained from someone experienced in these small deployments.

EDIT: Just saw this: "He wouldn't get a pro in for the fact he wants to keep his business close quartered between family and friends"

Strange... Is he a crime boss?

 

[Chapster5]

Don't take this the wrong way but reading some of the posts I think you are taking on too much at this stage. Why don't you have your friend get someone in and you shadow them?

Going forward you could maintain the system and build on the knowlege gained from someone experienced in these small deployments.

I understand what people are saying with this, get things setup and setup right first time, but with the time frame I have (I do have a fair amount of time on my hands to learn it seems) It wouldn't take me 3 - 4 weeks to learn this kind of thing I shouldn't imagine. Especially for such a small setup seems the perfect opportunity to learn how to do a network with such a small need. If by the end of the 3 - 4 weeks i'm still unsure (can't see me struggling by then) then obviously I will suggest getting a pro in and i'll shadow them. Since im a rather quick learner with computers I would like to take on the challenge myself

Thanks

Nick

 

[@Spoonie]

Has he given you a his reasons for wanting a server? EMail, Internet access etc?