Buying : Cup or 172

[TheBeast]

Hi all. Well, it seems i have the chance to finally buy the car i have wanted for ages, Clio sport 172.

I will finally be able to get rid of the H reg Peugeot 205, 0.9 Litre ! We had some good times together, and i will miss it ....

But i dont know whether to get the Cup or 172, i love the blue colour on the Cup, am not too bothered about the air con, but my concern is about the lack of ABS. How good are the brakes without ABS ? Is it going to be on the edge ? My peugeot has never had ABS, never been a problem to me, but then it doesnt have quite the performance of a Cup....

Any thoughts / advice would be much appreciated...

ps: have driven bros Fiat coupe 20V Turbo a couple of times, but not much experience with fast cars...

 

[paul172cup]

I dont miss having ABS. Had it on my Megane coupe b4 i had my Cup but i prefer the feel of the Cups brakes.

Had no problems driving in the snow a couple of weeks ago.

If you have never had ABS then you wont miss it. Renaultsport have played with the Cups brakes to make them more progressive when on the limit.

Go for a test drive in both and see what you think b4 you make up your mind.

 

[TheBeast]

I guess youre right, if ive never had ABS then i wont miss it... I test drove the 172 twice before, found it fast, solid and great fun. Dont remember much about the brakes though... I guess ill make my mind up after i test drive the Cup. Am thinking of getting it from Renault garage, on their special Renault Finance deal, pay a deposit, then monthly payments, then a one off final payment, is this a good deal, i dont want a lot of hassle....

 

[Gareth]

for you reference TheBeast, if you are thinking of buying one from a Renault dealer, i got a good offer. I walked into Renault Liverpool and asked for a discount on a Clio Sport 172 (not cup) approx £14600 methinks, they asked if i had a car to trade in, i said no, they said oh good so i can give more discount and they offered me a brand new 172 (not cup) for £12995, the price of a cup!

 

[KDF]

I would say if you had the choice of a 172 or a Cup you should go for a 172

The Cup is only a few 10ths of a second quicker. And what do you get for those 10ths,

Thin glass
Less sound deadning
No Aircon
No Climate Control (my favourite bit)
2 less airbags
No ABS (a big negative in my eyes)
No Half Leather/Alcantara
No Heat Reflective windscreen
No nice engine cover

On a plus you get
Slightly faster car
Slightly better suspension
Different Wheels (up to you if you think they are better)
A really nice paint job (got to love that blue colour really a big + for the CUP)

Obviously I am slightly biased, but I had the choice of either the Cup or 172, I picked the 172 !

 

[Gareth]

losing the leather is a BIG no no for me, the fuller 172 is so smart and nice inside, i couldnt give a sh*t if it is 10ths of a second slower, a fast car is a fast car, and i love my leather seats and air con to death.

 

[Simon]

You might not like the styling of the MK1 172? and you can pick these up for as little as 7 grand. which is a bargain in my eyes.

 

[phobia]

Im in a similar situation as TheBeast, but have more-or-less decided on the 172 (non-Cup) 2003 version (few extra additions as highlighted by _KDF, auto wipers, auto lights on (like you dont know when its raining or dark)).

Im now at the stage of sorting the finances out - I cant afford to buy it straight-out, so have gone for the Selections system over three years + ballon payment at the end.

However, Ive noticed quite a few differences in dealer prices. I believe the list is now £14,595 - and the first dealer I went to offered it for £14,100 where the second offered it for £13,900 -- both figures before weve done any serious work.

Other than Sat Nav and uprated CD changer, its definitely worth getting the only other accessory - the Mobile Phone wiring loom - put in from factory - even if you dont use it immediately IMO.

So - whats the best prices youve been offered for 172?

Me - £13,900 - Renault Cousldon

Gaz2130 - £12,995 - Renault Liverpool

 

[Pillesnoppen]

My advice is, if you are planning on track days and have access to something more comfortable for long journeys, buy the Cup. If not, stick with the standard issue.

 

[Rallye-King]

Go for the Cup!! You will always regret it when that Cup next to you at the traffic lights pulls out a cars lengh on you. People buy 172s for the driving experience first and foremost. If you want a luxury car buy a beemer.

 

[Rallye-King]

Plus the Cup has a stunning colour and better alloys...ie..to the average punter on the street you drive past, the Cup will stand out more. The interior of the Cup isnt half as bad as people will have you believe. Who needs leather/alcantera seats.....freakin hell we are taliking about a small Reanult here not a Bentley. Coming from a 306 Rallye , electric windows are nice Air con is the only negative point, but for the 2 days a year in the UK when you really need air con you wont miss it.

 

[visceral]

Yep I picked the 172 too.

No doubt that Cup colour is fantastic, but theres just too many "toys" in the 172 to pass it up.

Xenon headlamps alone make it worthwhile - I luv the way the flicker when u switch them on the brighten up - Dont think u get the auto headlamps with the xenons though.

90% of the time u dont need the extra 10ths acceleration, though I bet it comes in handy!!

 

[Twit]

On the subject of finance... Dont go with renault/options etc the APR is normally massive and you are effectively tied to Renault at the end of the term with the balloon payment. If you cant pay cash get a normal loan, you can get a much better APR and a few places do these balloon style things. If I was in the same position I would just save for a couple of months and pay cash outright or at least do finance without the balloon payment.

Oh yeah... And buy a Cup. You will be gutted when someone asks if it is a Cup and you say no! And they just look much better than the standard 172... In my view!

 

[Rallye-King]

If you get off on the way your headlights flicker when you swithch them on, I am happy for you

 

[Rallye-King]

The Renault Finance is pathetic . If you want low monthly payments just take out a 5yr loan with Lombard or Alliance & Leicester then peddle it after 3 years, you car should pay off the outsatnding finance and have a bit for a deposit on your new chariot, works out much cheaper than these PCP deals and your not tied to Renault.

 

[Gareth]

IMHO there is nothing to think about between the Cup and the norm 172, and if you can haggle a price with a Renault dealer or buy on import you can easily get a proper 172 for the price of a cup. Then youve got all the added extras for no extra price, sure if you get a cup sitting at the lights next to you then you are going to be a bit pissed, but then you can always slap the air con on, and ride in style in your leather seats. Id admit the alloys on the CUP are better, but dont think they would suit the normal 172 colour of silver.

 

[tumbleweed]

You can get the 172 in cup blue....I had the choice between the cup and the 172...I went for the 172 for the climate control/air con, the leather seats, multi cd, Xenons and ABS.....Earlier this week I beat a Cup fair and square from 50 to 143 on a dual carriageway....it depends on the driver and ablity to change gear at times!.

The cup doesnt come with a spare wheel...I am happy to have a spare wheel..yes the cup does come with tyre foam...but if you have a tyre which is normally repairable because of a nail in the middle of the tread....the tyre cannot be repaired once its had tyre foam squirted in.

I think the seats in the Cup are pathetic....horrible grey and the back seat is just a cheap foam bench....the 172 seats are great...

I wouldnt change cars...I intend to add the Cup tuning parts onto the 172 engine when they come out...but forsaking quality and style for the sake of 3/10ths of a second to sixty isnt worth it.

 

[tumbleweed]

The other thing is I think in 2 - 3 years the cup will become another saxo with white baseball cap wearers and no class!!!

 

[Eddd]

Or it could become sort of a Willy with neat guys like me driving it!

 

[GR7]

If you really want the comforts and goodies of the 172, but you like the blue of the Cup, then get a 172 and get it sprayed in the Cup blue colour, then you could get the painter to put on several extra layers of paint so that the paint is too thick to get chipped by stones.

 

[phobia]

Thats the other thing - the damn colour! Downloaded loads of pics of 172s in Red, Blue, Silver and Black - trying to decide which to go for. Def gonna get tinted, so IMO silver would be best - but I do like the black after seeing a post in this forum of someones motor in black with tints - looked v. nice

(My mate did suggest going for the Red coz itll be the least common colour, but I dont think thats an excuse for looking like a girl - hehe)

 

[TheBeast]

thanks for the replies, some real good advice going on in here... In simple terms, i just love the Cup colour and wheels... Id get a 172 if it was available in same blue as the Cup is. ABS, Air Con are really good etc etc... and the difference in performance in my opinion, minimal.... For me the looks of the car count big time, and the Cup in blue with the wheels look great, and at the moment are winning me over...

Keep going over the advantages and disadvantages in my head, cant decide.... This is one tough choice....But am grateful to have the choice !! Both are great cars.

 

[KDF]

yes, I think its fair to say which ever car you choose you will be impressed, you cant loose..



Good luck with your purchase, and just to annoy everyone again,

I got my 2002 Mk2 172 with 5600 miles on the clock for £9000, it is minted too..

 

[nobbynobby]

Simon, Where the hell have you seen a mk1 for as little as 7k. If it is that price it must be an import with a million miles on it. The cheapest mk1 ive seen was a w plate with 19k on the clock frsh 1 owner from new, mint and my mate had to get rid of it quick as he was moving to Australia within 1 week, so he "GAVE" it to a local garage for £8200 cash. 7k i think not !!!

 

[FunkyASFunk]

CUP! you dont need those girly extras like vanity mirror lights etc!! and anyway ABS was invented for women drivers!!

LOL

 

[visceral]

Rallye-King - when u get in your 30s mate, those little things really start to matter - lol, no really the xenons are really cool _ damn sight cooler than buying blue lamps in an attemp to emulate them.

the 172 looks a totally different car inside, much nicer place to be in a traffic jam.

imo of course.

 

[tumbleweed]

On scorching summer days in a traffic jam , I too will be ice cool inside of my 172 with the Air Con on...I agree with Visceral...quality of life over out and out whizz bang speed is best....who really gives a toss about being .3 quicker to 60...the twisties sort out the men from the boys anyway.

In my last car..Ford Puma I had ABS on that...one day some bast%RD just cut out of a side road...I was doing 50, I stamped on the brake peddle and let the ABS do the rest...I steered around it....wouldnt of fancied not having abs...when SH&T happens fast..the human brain generally goes into melt down...so bolx to this pumping the brake peddle rubbish

 

[CUPSTAR]

DEFO THE CUP..AT THE END OF THE DAY LIST PRICE OF CUP £12995 AND 172 £14995..BEFORE ANYONE REPLYS I KNOW YOU CAN GET CHEAPER BY SHOPPING AROUND. IF THEY WERE THE SAME PRICE THEN FAIR ENOUGH YOU GET MORE IN A 172 FOR YOUR MONEY BUT AT THE LIST PRICE MENTIONED YOU ARE PAYING FOR THE EXTRAS!! THE CUP IS QUICKER, SOUNDS FANTASTIC, LOOKS FAB IN THE BLUE INSTEAD OF NEARLY ALL THE 172S BEING IN SILVER OR BLACK, AND STANDS OUT MORE A 172 IS HARDLY DIFFERENT TO A NORMAL CLIO WITH THE COOL COLOUR, BETTER WHEELS AND SPOILER AND FRONT LIP THE CUP LOOKS THE BUSINESS. BY THE WAY THE SEATS IN THE CUP FOR ME ARE THE MOST COMFORTABLE SEATS I HAVE EVER SAT IN AND WITH THE GRIPS ON THE STEERING WHEEL LONGER DRIVING DISTANCES ARE A DREAM. ABS IS COOL BUT I PREFER THE RACING FEEL OF THE CUPS BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY IT IS UP TO YOU. YES IT DEPENDS ON THE DRIVER TO GET THE MOST OUT OF THE CAR BUT I ONCE HAD A VTS AND WHEN I WENT TO ALCONBRY THE PROFESSIONAL DRIVER THERE IN A 1.1 SAXO BEAT EVERYBODYS TIME ROUND THE TRACK BY A HUGE WAY..I WAS GUTTED!!!!

 

[RobFenn]

I think it comes down to personal preference, the cup is better in terms of thrills and is noticeably quicker but you dont have Air con, ABS etc which you expect from all modern cars which im sure would piss you off in the very hot/cold months. I think theyre just as good as each other. Try flicking a coin!

 

[KDF]

I was playing about with my air-con yesterday.. hehe, just to piss my girlfriend off,

You could see your breath in the car, and it was 11 degrees outside.. lol

 

[Nick Read]

Tumbleweed, the cup or 172 will never be a Saxo in years to come -cars only become like Saxos /Novas etc when they are slow as sh*t out of the factory and group 7 insurance or something which a 172 or Cup isnt. For the same reason 16v/Williams is still the connoisseurs choice of old school hot hatch cos it was built pretty fast out of the factory, fairly high insurance group for a little hatch, so always been out of reach of the capheads.

Regarding cup vs 172...well I dont have any of those toys on my valver and in fact Im stripping it out even further, but it does seem a bit mental to lose aircon etc for a car that is only marginally quicker. The amount of times I been stuck in traffic over the last few summers with the blower full on and windows right down, and still sweating like a pig...Id say the Cup looks a lot better and is definitely the drivers choice and if you really dont want aircon etc then get a cup. Or get a 172 on the cheap, respray it Cup blue, then strip it out properly and lose at least 50kg, but still keep the aircon.

BTW I dont know what the seats are like in the Cup but if theyre grey cloth or something then propbably the point is that youre supposed to take them out and put proper bucket seats in the front? Like the RS Evos with the sh*tty Mitsubishi Starion cloth trim.

 

[Tom]

or just fit air con to a cup its not exactly hard

the cup seats are the same as my 1.2 seats

except they are trimmed in black (pretty stupid of renault to make the interior black in a car with no air con)

 

[Slugger]

tom the cup seats are grey and they arent the same as 1.2 seats (unless you have changed yours). They are the same as 172 seats with a different covering.

 

[FunkyASFunk]

Quote: Originally posted by tomclio1.2 on 27 January 2003


or just fit air con to a cup its not exactly hard

lol errmm ...you have to fit an evaporator behind the heater matrix a condensor on vto the rad with a high elocity fan and cowleing to suit ,, pressure swiches to control the fan... a compressor has to be fitted and a belt taken off your engine to run it! then theres all te controls inside the car! as well as drip pans and safety swiches and relief valves too..and allthis then has to be charged with a non ozone depleating refrigerant by some one with a safe handling certificate who will most likely rip you off because you need a special fitting to charge them!



Just open the window!!

 

[tumbleweed]

If i had a cup because I do like them, the only Mod i would make is having the seats re-trimmed in same 172 half leather and matching bright paintwork blue alcatera trim...i would do the door cards...a ploy taken from the Focus cosworth...The interior trim would look hot like the rest of the car !!!!

 

[tumbleweed]

Nick Read

That was a good posting...I think Williams have stayed exclusive because of the simple fact they retain their value, the insurance but also they made them in limited numbers...reminds me on the Honda Integra Type R.

I would have a Williams given the option.

 

[RobFenn]

Opening your window doesnt work when sitting in traffic!

 

[KDF]

dont you just luve it when your sitting in traffic, and the dude in the lane across has his sunroof, front windows, rear windows open full trying to get a gasp of cool air. the sweat is gushing down the guys face..

He looks across and you are sitting in your 172, you smile back and rub your hands together because you are nice and cold...

Well actually havent been able to use the aircon in summertime in the clio yet cause I only had it about 2 months but, I have been in another car with the above situation .

 

[Slugger]

Quote: Originally posted by nobbynobby on 26 January 2003

Simon, Where the hell have you seen a mk1 for as little as 7k. If it is that price it must be an import with a million miles on it. The cheapest mk1 ive seen was a w plate with 19k on the clock frsh 1 owner from new, mint and my mate had to get rid of it quick as he was moving to Australia within 1 week, so he "GAVE" it to a local garage for £8200 cash. 7k i think not !!!

Sold my W reg with I think about 65k on it (cant remember now) for less than 7 grand.

 

[TheBeast]

Well, unfortunately the job i was hoping for didnt come through, no fault of my own ! But i really need a new car, and am now hoping to get a cheaper Renault Clio than the 172, be it a Cup or not ! Anyway, i will be glad to have a new car, so have been looking at the 1.4 16V Expression 3dr, £8.5K, 0-60 10.5 ( i know its nowhere near the 172 !), that price based on a Renauly Garage. Have also seen on Trade Sales, a 1.6 16V Privelege 5dr, £8.9K, 0-60 9.6. Id love the faster Clio, does anyone have any views on Trade Sales ?

PS: i really would have loved a 172, its disappointing not be able to get one now, but i figure one of these two would be the next best thing !