Camber bolts and Alternatives

[richjwilliams]

Currently we are struggling to get any extra camber using our current camber bolts.

After messing around for a couple of hours the best we could get is 1.7deg -'ive drivers and 1.2 deg -'ive

My questions are:

1 – Do camber bolts wear out? If so a new set may solve our issue as the camber bolts we have did not seem to want to play ball properly when adjusting recently.

2 – I noticed that some coil over come with elongated holes to allow for adjustment, will this be a more effective way of achieving some increased camber?

3 - could there be any other issues?

Any input would be great, ideally I would like to have the front camber at negative 2.5-3 degrees.

cheers
rich

 

[Sir_Dave]

I got -2.5 on both front sides with Sachs/eibach camber bolts, that was just set to 'max negative'.

 

[Fred@BTM]

-2.5 is nearly 3degrees which is about right

you need to bin the washers that come with them

 

[richjwilliams]

Are these the washers I need to remove??

 

[Mr Plums]

-2.5 is nearly 3degrees which is about right

you need to bin the washers that come with them

I used the washers that came with mine, will this make any difference?

 

[Fred@BTM]

open bin and insert washers

 

[Bobby.]

Lol sounds technical Fred.

You could elongate your sach's if your having problems with the camber bolts, but then it's advised to use standard pinch bolts and not the camber bolt.

Also AST top mounts will give you more camber, an expensive option but if your planning on upgrading your top mounts anyway then that's an option.

 

[richjwilliams]

Lol sounds technical Fred.

You could elongate your sach's if your having problems with the camber bolts, but then it's advised to use standard pinch bolts and not the camber bolt.

Also AST top mounts will give you more camber, an expensive option but if your planning on upgrading your top mounts anyway then that's an option.

literally just fittined PMS top mount and brace kit

 

[richjwilliams]

open bin and insert washers

why does it make a difference?

 

[Fred@BTM]

because it does, now get on with it!

 

[richjwilliams]

because it does, now get on with it!

yes sir, only problem is now... i wont know what im setting it too..lol

 

[Nick172Cup]

I've managed over 3 degrees neg with these camber bolts, with the washers in. So unsure what the issue is?

 

[Fred@BTM]

pass, i just bin them, they serve no purpose IMO

 

[richjwilliams]

I've managed over 3 degrees neg with these camber bolts, with the washers in. So unsure what the issue is?

is this with a brand new set? and is this at the top or bottom lol

 

[Bobby.]

I don't think the problem is going to be the bolts wearing out, they don't move when done up so I can't see how they could wear out.

Also If the lobe did wear out it would allow more camber wouldn't it?

 

[Chip-mk1]

The washers help stop the bolt from moving, partly cause they are dimpled to grip well and partly because the presence of the tab in the hold means the bolt cant move across.

I would keep them personally given that they are useful, just make sure they are orientated the correct way of course.


What did it make on standard bolts? Then we will know if its an issue with the car or with your install of the bolts, as the bolts should give at least 1 degree more.

 

[Nick172Cup]

is this with a brand new set? and is this at the top or bottom lol

With both new and used bolts. Always go in the top bolt hole.

 

[richjwilliams]

With both new and used bolts. Always go in the top bolt hole.

The fact its a trophy make and difference?

 

[richjwilliams]

The washers help stop the bolt from moving, partly cause they are dimpled to grip well and partly because the presence of the tab in the hold means the bolt cant move across.

I would keep them personally given that they are useful, just make sure they are orientated the correct way of course.


What did it make on standard bolts? Then we will know if its an issue with the car or with your install of the bolts, as the bolts should give at least 1 degree more.

I bought it with the bolts fitted, so have never tested it lol.

When fitting I did the following:

Slacked of the bottom and top bolts, turned the bolt till I got the meter to read as much castor as possible lol tab on washer was facing down.

Any issues??

 

[richjwilliams]

Will I lose out much not having the extra degree of camber? The car other than a new set of brake pads is ready to go for Bedford otherwise lol

 

[Nick172Cup]

The fact its a trophy make and difference?

Should make no difference at all.

 

[Chip-mk1]

I bought it with the bolts fitted, so have never tested it lol.

When fitting I did the following:

Slacked of the bottom and top bolts, turned the bolt till I got the meter to read as much castor as possible lol tab on washer was facing down.

Any issues??

Tab on the washer should not be facing down for max camber.

It should be aligned horizontally.


Just go watch some youtube videos on how to set your camber up it sounds like you havent done it correctly.

 

[Fred@BTM]

Or just stop fannying about and bin the washers! The bolts won't move at all as proven by every single Clio I've ever setup (that's a lot) including James' race car, you won't be anywhere near the loads he puts on them!

 

[Chip-mk1]

When set on max they are inherently stable as well as the load isn't acting at an angle to try and rotate it. So I agree they are highly unlikely to move when set to max in particular.

 

[Tony Hunter]

If you have elongated soles, use the standard bolts because they will move. And as said, tab on washer shouldn't be facing downwards.

 

[richjwilliams]

Or just stop fannying about and bin the washers! The bolts won't move at all as proven by every single Clio I've ever setup (that's a lot) including James' race car, you won't be anywhere near the loads he puts on them!

This is what I plan to try but I will have to wait to try it as until Dewis brings all his kit I will be setting it up blind lol

Only seeking to find out what others have done to see what they gave achieved

 

[richjwilliams]

If you have elongated soles, use the standard bolts because they will move. And as said, tab on washer shouldn't be facing downwards.

If we can get the bolts sorted we will possibly leave the slotted holes for now, however the tab adjustment will be changed

 

[richjwilliams]

When set on max they are inherently stable as well as the load isn't acting at an angle to try and rotate it. So I agree they are highly unlikely to move when set to max in particular.

Brilliant, thanks mate

Either need to bite the bullet and pay someone to set the camber and toe again or wait for Dewis to COBE down the following weekend

 

[richjwilliams]

Thank you all for your input I will report back with the outcome or may just take it to Fred if he is available :lol:

 

[richjwilliams]

this was suggested on OPD

Id be going for OEM style ones:

Which run in a housing and transfer load that way:

Rather than this style like most seem to use:
http://pro-r.shukersparts.co.uk/med...33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/p/r/prebfa1100_2.jpg
which IMO are more likely to slip....

 

[MG cup]

You need the recesses to move that bolt, that is no different to fitting a 12mm normal bolt in a Clio strut.

I have had nearly 5 deg with camber bolts on my cup, always slacken both strut bolts and push the top of the wheel in after any adjustment on the cammed bolt.

This is just over 4 lol

 

[Chip-mk1]

You need the recesses to move that bolt, that is no different to fitting a 12mm normal bolt in a Clio strut.

It would be a very good suggestion to do it as per what Alistair on OPD has recommended, but the problem is that you will need to weld a semi circle onto the strut to achieve it.
By far the best option though for doing it on the shock, this is how KW V2 work.

 

[MG cup]

I haven't read the link although this way would be slightly better than Eibach's if a ring was fitted in theory. They would still shift on the slotted hole like Eibach's unless they were at max or minimum when riding the kerbs. This is the problem with strut adjustable camber.

 

[Chip-mk1]

I haven't read the link although this way would be slightly better than Eibach's if a ring was fitted in theory. They would still shift on the slotted hole like Eibach's unless they were at max or minimum when riding the kerbs. This is the problem with strut adjustable camber.

Yeah as I mentioned earlier in the thread these type of bolts only really work well at max adjust (either pos or neg).
One advantage of this type though is that its an M12 bolt not an M10 at the thinnest section, and hence more clamping force is possible by torqueing it futher so its less likely to rotate.

Ideally though, once adjusted, tack it with a welder!

 

[underdog]

open bin and insert washers

Do NOT bin washer. The inner tab on washer is critical to how they work.without it you will not achieve the full amount of camber and the bolt will move around in the hole. To set them properly the little tab that faces inward must be in exactly the opposite direction to the cam lobe. I would only use a camber bolt that has these washers on both sides of bold not just one. If you let the washer spin wherever it wants your wasting your time. Put some tip ex on the head of the bolt at the peak point of the lobe and set the little tab opposite the tip ex mark.

 

[Fred@BTM]

How do the bolts "move around" exactly? They're torqued up to 140nm from memory! We race on them and they don't move at all?

 

[underdog]

How do the bolts "move around" exactly? They're torqued up to 140nm from memory! We race on them and they don't move at all?

Simple. Only the lobe is the size of the standard bolt the rest of the bolt is smaller and the reason he washer has the inner tab takes up that free movement and compensates for the size difference. Even if you torque it up enough to not move under he forces of cornering then how are you in control of setting camber accurately with a ill fittin bolt. You obviously have no clue how they work so just binned them. It's not rocket science to be honest and I'm shocked at how bad that advice was

 

[Mr Plums]

My camber bolts had a note on them saying torque to 103nm "DO NOT OVER TORQUE"

 

[Fred@BTM]

Simple. Only the lobe is the size of the standard bolt the rest of the bolt is smaller and the reason he washer has the inner tab takes up that free movement and compensates for the size difference. Even if you torque it up enough to not move under he forces of cornering then how are you in control of setting camber accurately with a ill fittin bolt. You obviously have no clue how they work so just binned them. It's not rocket science to be honest and I'm shocked at how bad that advice was

the size difference is the whole point of why you get more camber, the strut hole rests on the bolt as you adjust it (unless you're setting the camber with the wheels in the air?) as you rotate it with the wheels on the ground the cam lobe pushes on the hub forcing it outward to give less negative camber

no need to insult me fella, its just the internet! We've setup race winning cars WITHOUT the washers, if you read the box they come in it states "Volvo/Subaru" they might be required on them, but IN MY OPINION you can bin them when used on clio's, also WIHTOUT the washers i believe you get more camber from my experience

no ill offense to you in anyway shape or form, i'm just sharing my experience with everyone else, if you don't like my opinion fair enough

 

[Chip-mk1]

also WIHTOUT the washers i believe you get more camber from my experience

Not if adjusted correctly, they are just meant to take up the slack between the slimmer section of the bolt and the shock.