Camber Shims & Toe

[SharpyClio]

I am looking to add camber shims to the 182, I was speaking with my mechanic friend and he said that depending on the way the axle sits on the wheel adding camber shims might change the Toe and then you need to get more shims to correct the Toe.

So, my question is simple, does adding camber shims to the back change the Toe as well or does it remain largely the same?

 

[Mr Underhill]

does adding camber shims to the back change the Toe as well or does it remain largely the same?

Yes.

 

[SharpyClio]

Yes.

Its changes it or it remains the same lol. 🤪

 

[RSRowe]

It changes it.
The X85 has a table of geo changes - I expect the Mk2's would change a similar amount https://www.manualslib.com/manual/807837/Renault-Clio-Cup.html?page=25#manual

 

[SharpyClio]

It changes it.
The X85 has a table of geo changes - I expect the Mk2's would change a similar amount https://www.manualslib.com/manual/807837/Renault-Clio-Cup.html?page=25#manual

So if I wanted to add 2degs of rear camber I would need to do what with Tow shims? I am a bit lost on all of this tbh.

 

[RSRowe]

It's very likely you'll have an amount of camber in the beam stock. Really you need to get it measured first before you start ordering shims.

If you take the 1° column on that chart, it's saying that by fitting a 1° camber shim, you would get 0.16° of positive toe (toe in), which the beam will also likely have built into it as standard anyhow. When I put camber shims in my Mk3, I ended up with around 1° of toe in on the rear, which made it handle like a complete bag of s**t.
I then fitted toe shims to correct that and got it remeasured again.

Unfortunately it isn't a simple task of just fitting what you think is right and then it measuring ok. It's entirely possible that you'll end up having to get it measured twice in order to get the end result that you want.

 

[SharpyClio]

It's very likely you'll have an amount of camber in the beam stock. Really you need to get it measured first before you start ordering shims.

If you take the 1° column on that chart, it's saying that by fitting a 1° camber shim, you would get 0.16° of positive toe (toe in), which the beam will also likely have built into it as standard anyhow. When I put camber shims in my Mk3, I ended up with around 1° of toe in on the rear, which made it handle like a complete bag of s**t.
I then fitted toe shims to correct that and got it remeasured again.

Unfortunately it isn't a simple task of just fitting what you think is right and then it measuring ok. It's entirely possible that you'll end up having to get it measured twice in order to get the end result that you want.

Thanks - The mechanic has all the measurements from its current state, I know he said that the amount of camber on it was pathetic really.

I just wanted to get my head around the tables which you have explained now which is really helpful. Thank you.

I did figure it would take multiple efforts to get it right, might see if I can do the changes at his garage rather than bringing it home each time.

 

[Mr Underhill]

Its changes it or it remains the same lol. 🤪

Sorry, I was rushing out the door. To be fair it was a two-part question so the real answer is yes and probably. 🤣

I'll message you with some real-world examples illustrating the benefits and drawbacks of doing it.

 

[JamesBryan]

Your 182 should have about -1.5 of camber as it stands currently i'd imagine.

Another degree should do it.

 

[SharpyClio]

Your 182 should have about -1.5 of camber as it stands currently i'd imagine.

Another degree should do it.

That number rings a bell tbf.

 

[JamesBryan]

That number rings a bell tbf.

Yeah it's around factory spec, they're anywhere from -1 to -1.5 and 20'-30' toe in per side.

Dial it in to -2.5 and 10' toe in per side and it'll be sound.

Don't really want parallel toe on the rear unless you like it tail happy.

 

[Beauvais Motorsport]

How does it change the toe? Or is that 'effective' toe change from camber thrust?

 

[the_baron_von_richthofen]

I was wondering how it changed toe on the rear also.

I can understand it on the front when you have the camber change fighting against the track rods etc but my (very) small brain cant work it out for the rear!

 

[SharpyClio]

So from I understand if the axle isn’t exactly at right angles with the ground then a camber shim will also adjust the tow as it’s not all in line. Sure someone will come along and explain better but it’s all to do with the angles of the axle in relation to the floor

 

[Beauvais Motorsport]

So from I understand if the axle isn’t exactly at right angles with the ground then a camber shim will also adjust the tow as it’s not all in line. Sure someone will come along and explain better but it’s all to do with the angles of the axle in relation to the floor

You're right. You could work out exactly how much it will change if you had dimensions of the beam.

 

[Mr Underhill]

That’s how it was described to me.

The rear axle isn't perpendicular to the ground. Any adjust to the camber, tilts the wheels and affects their alignment with the centerline of the vehicle, which includes the toe angle. Different suspension and wear and tear can affect it as well.

 

[SharpyClio]

resurrecting my own thread a bit here.

If I add a shim for toe will that have an impact on the camber? I understood the way camber would impact the toe so I’m assuming the same would apply for adding a toe shim?

 

[RSRowe]

Yep. The chart I linked before gives a good indication of how they are related.

 

[SharpyClio]

I've lobbed in a 1deg camber and 1deg toe out shim. Its been vey scientific and not trial and error at all. Car is off to get the alignment done on Monday before Cadwell so I will know what the changes have been as I have the readout from last time but having read the link @RSRowe Provided it shouldn't be to bad at that as a starting point.

What I also realised is that its not that hard to change the shims, its a bit of a faff but I got them done in less than 30mins.