Cams.. lot faster or just different drive ?

[franx]

I've got my cambelt service coming up and am really thinking about some cams.

I've read a lot about them; takes the car up to 200 hp and such, but is the car actualy going to be a lot quicker or are you just changing the powerband to either more torque or more topend power ?
Before i spend the load of money i want to know if it's really really worth it

I've spoken to Alper (En035) , his car has greatly improved. + Actually my car feels so fast already, i seem to think there's not much to be gained :S

 

[TheJesus]

depends on what cam profile you go for and who's doing the work. Cat cams 428's are ideal, some people prefer the 420's, but I dont personally see the point in these as the profile looks like standard.

 

[en035]

I've got my cambelt service coming up and am really thinking about some cams.

I've read a lot about them; takes the car up to 200 hp and such, but is the car actualy going to be a lot quicker or are you just changing the powerband to either more torque or more topend power ?
Before i spend the load of money i want to know if it's really really worth it

I've spoken to Alper (En035) , his car has greatly improved. + Actually my car feels so fast already, i seem to think there's not much to be gained :S

that's a nice claim 'not much to be gained'

Please shoot a 60-120 mph video and compare it with this.

http://www.dailymotion.com/en035/video/x5cnze_clio-rs-172-60120-mph-100210-kmh-sp_auto

 

[172Ben]

not that fast really IMO.

 

[sideways danny]

Depends what you have already really. If you dont map to suit anything significant like cams you wont get much out of it on it's own. A set of cams added onto a throttle bodied (standard internals) engine with appropriate mapping should give 15-20bhp

 

[franx]

Exhaust and intake already done. Will ask Henk Fastchip to make a custom map so it WILL be running at it's best !

C&B have these for the Clio , the ones Alper is running, thinking of getting those..


Application
Road medium
Cam lift IN5.7
Cam lift EX5.5
Duration286°/280°
Timing19°-87° / 70°-30°
Timing with phase variator opened39°-52° / 70°-30°
Lobe center angles124°
Lobe center angles with phase variator opened104°/ °
Valve lift TDC0.5 / 1.2
Valve lift TDC with phase variator opened3.5 / 1.2 ClearanceHydraulic tappets

Pretty dirty/wild cams ?

Will the car (Cup 172 2003) ,already running quite fast , be even more faster ?!
This is the question. To cam or not to cam ?

 

[pinky]

Have a pal..think she comes on here...she recently had a new cam fitted at k-tec and
she says its so much more nippier...thinks its a really good improvement.

 

[en035]

not that fast really IMO.

yep as compared to Enzo you are certainly right,

take a chronograph with you and record your values.

 

[172Ben]

Just saying compared to my 1.4 punto that seems slow from 60-120.

 

[en035]

Just saying compared to my 1.4 punto that seems slow from 60-120.

Let's talk with numbers,

here is a video of a 172 running on ITB's,

http://www.ktunnel.com/index.php/10...f1d4994429a2bdc3c99dbb1a3d5baa001939600215304

check out the 60-90 time then we proceed.

Car is claimed to be 227 HP.

 

[franx]

Just saying compared to my 1.4 punto that seems slow from 60-120.

LOL

your Punto must have wings and a propeller on front ?

 

[sideways danny]

Just saying compared to my 1.4 punto that seems slow from 60-120.

LOL

your Punto must have wings and a propeller on front ?

Only 1.4 punto I can think of is the turbo

 

[franx]

^^ then he must be thinking it's km per hour , not mph ?

I've just been on a little motorway trip, when i trie to do this in third and fourth gear, mine wo'nt make it.. seems i have to shift earlier ?? I think i really need my fifth gear to go to 120+mph
I remember Alpers thread , did'nt he say it was third and fourth gear when booting it all the way to 120 MPH ?

But anyway.... everybody on cams ; was it a great improvement ? (that will keep you happy for another 2 months ) or is the difference minimal when already having a really fast/good running OEM car/engine with exhaust , map and airintake like i do ??
(mine already made 185+bhp on the rollers, that's why i'm wondering !)

 

[TooneySonic]

depends what you are comparing franx - the phase 1 RS can hit higher speeds in 4th as its longer geared than the phase 2. i get 110mph in forth from mine

with my car running a decat and itg filter i made 164 on RS tuning rollers earlier this year

been thinking about cams myself too as it make sense to swap with the cambelt service

 

[Mark One]

^^ then he must be thinking it's km per hour , not mph ?

I've just been on a little motorway trip, when i trie to do this in third and fourth gear, mine wo'nt make it.. seems i have to shift earlier ?? I think i really need my fifth gear to go to 120+mph
I remember Alpers thread , did'nt he say it was third and fourth gear when booting it all the way to 120 MPH ?

But anyway.... everybody on cams ; was it a great improvement ? (that will keep you happy for another 2 months ) or is the difference minimal when already having a really fast/good running OEM car/engine with exhaust , map and airintake like i do ??
(mine already made 185+bhp on the rollers, that's why i'm wondering !)

that's right. The Phase 2 gearbox has shorter ratios. Renault did it to keep the 0-60 times on the phase 2 even though it was heavier.

 

[Mark One]

^^ then he must be thinking it's km per hour , not mph ?

I've just been on a little motorway trip, when i trie to do this in third and fourth gear, mine wo'nt make it.. seems i have to shift earlier ?? I think i really need my fifth gear to go to 120+mph
I remember Alpers thread , did'nt he say it was third and fourth gear when booting it all the way to 120 MPH ?

But anyway.... everybody on cams ; was it a great improvement ? (that will keep you happy for another 2 months ) or is the difference minimal when already having a really fast/good running OEM car/engine with exhaust , map and airintake like i do ??
(mine already made 185+bhp on the rollers, that's why i'm wondering !)

Personally. I'd say, if the job could be done for £400-500 mapped, then it'd be worth it. But it can't be (in this country at least)

 

[Mark One]

Just saying compared to my 1.4 punto that seems slow from 60-120.

Let's talk with numbers,

here is a video of a 172 running on ITB's,

http://www.ktunnel.com/index.php/10...f1d4994429a2bdc3c99dbb1a3d5baa001939600215304

check out the 60-90 time then we proceed.

Car is claimed to be 227 HP.

your link is broken.
And you'd need almost 280bhp in a clio to beat that guys punto FYI

 

[franx]

Let's talk with numbers,

here is a video of a 172 running on ITB's,

http://www.ktunnel.com/index.php/10...f1d4994429a2bdc3c99dbb1a3d5baa001939600215304

check out the 60-90 time then we proceed.

Car is claimed to be 227 HP.

your link is broken.
And you'd need almost 280bhp in a clio to beat that guys punto FYI

what mods does it have, this rapido Punto ?

 

[franx]

depends what you are comparing franx - the phase 1 RS can hit higher speeds in 4th as its longer geared than the phase 2. i get 110mph in forth from mine

with my car running a decat and itg filter i made 164 on RS tuning rollers earlier this year

been thinking about cams myself too as it make sense to swap with the cambelt service

Right, that explains it .I had a hunch it had to do with the gears :approve:

 

[Markpw]

Its probably best to test drive a car with the mods you are looking to get before buying to avoid any problems, that said all cars will run slightly differently etc.

I personally am happy with my cam package and its defo quicker then before (based on not keeping up with my mates 225 cup before cams to now keeping up ! And getting the edge to 60 !!!)

 

[Ali]

I've said it before and i'll say it again! The difference between a 180bhp car and a 200bhp is b****cks all! 2-3 car lengths max over a mile or so!

The TB'd option is the only one i'd take to make a decent difference.

Mine was over the 190brake mark without cams...Fast enough imo!