Can anyone explain this scenario to me?

[tyranical]

I'm a bit of a noob, it makes sense in my head but it doesn't if that makes sense to any of you which it probably doesn't as it makes no sense to me, i'll get on with my non sensical post anyway.

Scenario:

Your driving your clio 17/82/cup/some sort of renaultsport clio at 40mph, a mk5 gti/astra gsi/other similar powered charged engine comes up next to you, and drives side by side, also at 40mph. Both in 3rd gear.

You both floor it, other car wins due to more torque.

Is that how it works?

 

[theduck]

Well seeing as in 3rd gear at 40mph the Clio will be no where near max power or torque then yes it will be eaten alive.

 

[jamesp24]

Sometimes,But the clio started at 30 lol.

 

[tyranical]

Take gear out of it then, and clio was meant to start at 40 that was a typo

I don't really understand how it works, because even if the clio was in 2nd gear, clio's max torque is far less than the charged cars torque even when its not at max torque, therefore clio is screwed?

It boggles my mind.

 

[theduck]

I think this is wheer BHP comes into it though, as isnt BHP = Torque x revs or something like that? So bhp is higher if torque is amde high up the rev range? Must be a reason that high revving cars are quick otherwise lazy diesels would be just as quick as high revving cars?

 

[tyranical]

I think this is wheer BHP comes into it though, as isnt BHP = Torque x revs or something like that? So bhp is higher if torque is amde high up the rev range? Must be a reason that high revving cars are quick otherwise lazy diesels would be just as quick as high revving cars?

Lazy diesel point is what made me wonder tbh because someone at work was telling me how his remapped diesel had 300lb/ft of torque which is more than a ferrari 360 therefore in gear from 30-80 his car would be very close in performance to the 360 only falling behind due to gear changes which although i thought was b****cks, i couldn't actually work out in my head why it was b****cks lol.

the BHP thing confuses me also though as the hatches i mentioned both have more bhp and more torque so should be faster than a clio although the clio is lighter.

 

[Triki]

I have not read the attached link in depth, so not able to say its 100% accurate. However it may give you an insight

http://www.performance-car-guide.co.uk/horsepower-and-torque.html

 

[Paul RN]

There are lots of factors that would influence the outcome

- Gearing
- Torque
- Weight
- Power
- Drivers ability (biggest variable)

As a simple example just thinking of torque and weight, you can have a heavy car with lots of torque and a light car with low level of torque both could be equally fast in your 40mph example. In a real life example you'd need to factor in the others elements above.

Power (BHP) = Torque x (Rate of Rotation) x (Constant determined by the units you're using which is RPM )

 

[Golgarth]

I think the answer you are looking for is something like the reason the charged car, when also not at its highest torque point, out drags the clio is because, dur to being charged (turbo'd/supercharged) the other car has a higher torque figure throughout the whole rev range.

 

[Golgarth]

Thus a mini cooper s often murders clios, due to better torque.

 

[tyranical]

Thus a mini cooper s often murders clios, due to better torque.

I was under the impression from what i had read on here that a mini cooper s does not infact murder clios, but gets murdered.

 

[tyranical]

Reason i'm asking is i'm after a new car, toying with all sorts of ideas and i love having something that surprises people, my yaris t sport that i have now, although nowhere near up to cliosport standard it surprises loads of people its the fastest car in its class for sure. People just think "oh look a yaris, a grandads car" and then when they can't keep up they'll follow me onto petrol stations asking what ive done to it (has happened twice lol) and i'm like, nothing, its standard.

I had a 1.1 saxo before and although it wasn't as fast as my t sport, it was so much more fun to go throwing round country lanes it just loved abuse and would stick to the road, the yaris can be a bit tail happy if your really pushing on and the tyres seem to squeal easily even when your not really pushing it, don't think i ever made the tyres squeal on my saxo and that got abused to the max every night for a year.

I wanted a clio, but then thought i could get a turbo/supercharged hatch, then tune it up so it would surprise people, can't really tune the clio much without spending silly money for a few bhp gain, just don't know what else to go for and something keeps bring me back to the clio all the time.

 

[realnumber 1]

I was under the impression from what i had read on here that a mini cooper s does not infact murder clios, but gets murdered.

Lol no murdering to be done. Clio JUST has the edge on the supercharged mini and about the same with the turbo mini

 

[lee131]

Reason i'm asking is i'm after a new car, toying with all sorts of ideas and i love having something that surprises people, my yaris t sport that i have now, although nowhere near up to cliosport standard it surprises loads of people its the fastest car in its class for sure. People just think "oh look a yaris, a grandads car" and then when they can't keep up they'll follow me onto petrol stations asking what ive done to it (has happened twice lol) and i'm like, nothing, its standard.

I had a 1.1 saxo before and although it wasn't as fast as my t sport, it was so much more fun to go throwing round country lanes it just loved abuse and would stick to the road, the yaris can be a bit tail happy if your really pushing on and the tyres seem to squeal easily even when your not really pushing it, don't think i ever made the tyres squeal on my saxo and that got abused to the max every night for a year.

I wanted a clio, but then thought i could get a turbo/supercharged hatch, then tune it up so it would surprise people, can't really tune the clio much without spending silly money for a few bhp gain, just don't know what else to go for and something keeps bring me back to the clio all the time.

ive have 3 YTS's and yes they do surprise people mainly being known as a granny car, there only group 7 ins. and 110bhp and 125 lb/ft weight something like 960kg they go well but too upright, i did well on track in mine but nothing on the way my mates clio handles so i had to get one, its neva going to be as fast as the larger hot hatches (megane/focus) but for its size it a great lttle car and can embarass a fair few things but as said the main plus factor is the handling so it all depends what youre looking for,

 

[172_Cup_Lew]

turbo's will always have an edge over an NA car in a straight line drag because as you say the torques higher, i always think of this :

BHP is a measure of the engines work/power output
Torque is a measure of how quickly it can get that work done

so for example a diesel has high torque but relatively low BHP compared to that torque, therefor it gets that lower amount of work done a lot faster than an NA, hence why people say diesel power comes all at once and before you know it your changing gear, hope this helps

and its all about the twisties! any old fool can put his foot down and change gear

 

[greglesueur]

haha harsh m8 u got owned.. u should have wooped him up

 

[tyranical]

ive have 3 YTS's and yes they do surprise people mainly being known as a granny car, there only group 7 ins. and 110bhp and 125 lb/ft weight something like 960kg they go well but too upright, i did well on track in mine but nothing on the way my mates clio handles so i had to get one, its neva going to be as fast as the larger hot hatches (megane/focus) but for its size it a great lttle car and can embarass a fair few things but as said the main plus factor is the handling so it all depends what youre looking for,

I know what you mean about being too upright, i've lowered mine now so i handles better than it did, but still not chuckable like the old saxo and im looking to get rid of it now so not doing anymore to it.

I want something really thats a good compromise between power, torque and handling.

 

[ben_r1]

Lol i luv the way ppl try to look into things too much to find a viable excuse for gettin their arse kicked by sumin that shudnt have.

At the end of the day, he had u and thats that

 

[tyranical]

Lol i luv the way ppl try to look into things too much to find a viable excuse for gettin their arse kicked by sumin that shudnt have.

At the end of the day, he had u and thats that

Have i missed something? what are you on about mate, what "had" me?

 

[greglesueur]

bad workmen all ways blame there tools haha, the clio which ever modal it was, (providing its a sport) should av won, the driver must not have been on the ball

 

[tyranical]

What the hell?

I don't drive a clio.
I don't drive a golf.

The thread is not a "my cars faster than xxx" thread.

Its a hypothetical scenario, and i don't just want to know who would win, i want to know WHY they would win, how torque, power, weight, etc all comes into it.

If you wish to be all like "YES MERRTTT MIII CLIO IS FASTA THN A FKIN M3 INIT IT GOT 172BHP BT THT DNT MATA WIV ME DRIVIN AM A FKIN BEAST INNIT LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA FKIN NOK U OUT INIT WIV MI SPAX FLOWA BODYKIT YO" then please go elsewhere as thats not what this thread is about.

 

[greglesueur]

well that wasnt explained lol, u made it seem like it was you in the clio..

 

[tyranical]

well that wasnt explained lol, u made it seem like it was you in the clio..

Well the last thing in the OP states "is that how it works?" and further down the thread i'm discussing with someone my Yaris T sport, so if you'd read the full thread, and read it properly, you'd of realised that.

 

[greglesueur]

lol ok m8 keep ya hair on

 

[ben_r1]

Lmao @ keyboard warrior!

 

[Golgarth]

another cliosport thread drops into a slagging match, woohoo

 

[pugs9000]

Just buy the car you prefer, rather then 'its faster then that'. Start that game and you would never buy a car!

 

[Gumby]

Torque is for go, HP is for show!

 

[tyranical]

Just buy the car you prefer, rather then 'its faster then that'. Start that game and you would never buy a car!

I actually give up.

I have stated, more than once, that this thread is not about which cars faster than that, i am asking because i wanted to understand the difference between torque and bhp and how they affect performance.

 

[Munson]

The Clio needs to be in 2nd at those speeds if you want to win.

 

[pugs9000]

I actually give up.

I have stated, more than once, that this thread is not about which cars faster than that, i am asking because i wanted to understand the difference between torque and bhp and how they affect performance.

My bad, misunderstood you op and never read all the thread, here's an article that i found interesting:
http://craig.backfire.ca/pages/autos/horsepower

 

[172_Cup_Lew]

i actually replied something informative to this but seems to have been missed through all the spam lol

 

[Tucker]

Let me mix up that scenario:

' RS clio and almost any other a mk5 gti/astra gsi/other similar powered charged engine go into a corner....'

Straight line speed isn't what the clio is about remember.

 

[Golgarth]

i actually replied something informative to this but seems to have been missed through all the spam lol

same here

 

[theduck]

What could have been a good, different and informative CS thread ruined by illiterate morons.

 

[tyranical]

Let me mix up that scenario:

' RS clio and almost any other a mk5 gti/astra gsi/other similar powered charged engine go into a corner....'

Straight line speed isn't what the clio is about remember.

Which has no bearing on the point of the thread. I thought this might of struck up a good thread for some people like myself to learn from but it's just been turned into a which cars faster thread when I only used the example of the Clio/gti as a comparison to show what my understanding of torque was and how correct this is.

The example had no relation to any real life event.