Car not starting... *dead*

[CrippsCorner]

:disrelieved:

I searched on here and found many threads about cars not starting but nothing quite the same as mine... it's dead dead. As in dead. As in no dash lights, no clicking from the engine bay, and I can't even lock the car as central locking has gone walkies.

Obviously I managed to unlock it first thing, and the first time I tried it the dash lights did come on, then nothing... but since then it's been as above. Drove home last night without a hiccup. When I get home from work I'm going to try jumping it but apart from the battery (brand new Bosch, purchased about 3 years ago) what else should I be looking at before asking for help?

I had similar with a previous Clio 182 years ago, and after leaving it for several hours it just randomly worked and I never had the fault again (although I'm pretty sure the dash lights were flicking on then) but I'd rather find the route of the problem!

 

[Addicted]

Check the voltage on the battery, and as a last test - check if the toaster has moved.

 

[JamesBryan]

Test the battery voltage first.

 

[CrippsCorner]

Right, yeah. If it's not sitting at 12v does that indicate my battery's gone pop, or can it be charged up to live on? Guarantee it's 1 month over its warranty period.

Should have a multimeter somewhere...

 

[Addicted]

12.4 to 12.6 ideally. If it's less than 12v, it's likely fucked.

 

[JAParker]

Check the earth straps!
I had basically the exact same symptoms...

 

[CrippsCorner]

Could you explain about the earth straps? I know nothing about them tbh. Have just Google'd though and it seems there's one that connects under the passenger side wheel arch? Now I recently had the front bumper off which obviously involves messing around with the arch lining etc. I wonder if it's been knocked off and hasn't been allowing the battery to charge over the past week or so, does that make any sense?

I remember that when I took that Torx screw out (top of arch lining) the nut came out too, and it was a complete b*****d to get back in again. As far as I was aware though, there wasn't anything actually attached to it. I've had the bumper off before and didn't have any problems... what's the best way of looking into this?

 

[JamesBryan]

It looks like a webbing type strap around the gearbox area in the wheel arch.

 

[CrippsCorner]

Thanks. Is it accessible from above, i.e. under the air box or something?

 

[JamesBryan]

I'd say through the wheel arch was best.

You can do a test though and get a jump lead and connect it from the negative battery terminal to somewhere like the engine hoist hook on top of the engine.

If it still doesn't start then the earth strap isn't the cause.

 

[Budgie]

Yep, check battery voltage then the earths.

 

[CrippsCorner]

Well... now things are starting to get really strange!

Came back from work and entered the car... the red light on the dash was flashing. Pressed the fob and it locked and unlocked. Tried starting it, nothing, although like this morning the lights flicked on once, but never again. This time however something kept clicking from under the glove box, would that be a relay or something?

Went to check battery voltage and it was 12.5v so no problem there. Found an earth point and the voltage from that to battery negative was jumping around between 5-6v... I believe if there's voltage there that could point to the earth straps? Anyway after trying a few more times and getting nothing I once again tried that earth point, it was now stuck at a solid 11.7v

Sat there and replied to a few text messages and was about to go in when I tried one more time... it fired up! Car came on instantly without a hiccup. Revved it and drove it forwards and backwards, no problems. Tried it again, and again and it's now absolutely fine.

I'm of course worried I didn't actually do anything, and thus it could easily happen again, but then again like I said something similar happened with my previous Clio 182 and it was a complete one off. I'm not sure whether to risk driving it to work tomorrow (although it's only a few miles down the road) but I guess if it failed there I could use my recovery service! I don't have home start you see, have to be a mile from home.

Any additional ideas from the above symptoms? Thanks for your help so far guys.

 

[Budgie]

Dodgy earth somewhere IMO.
I would check where the battery negative bolts to the body. Make sure that connection is clean.

Then check the wheel arch earth connection is clean.

 

[JamesBryan]

Yeah dodgy earth/wire somewhere.

Your battery terminals ok, not cracked or anything?

 

[loggyboy]

There is a 2nd earth strap hidden away at the back of the gearbox, follow the loom all the way down the bell housing.
another place to check is the large white connector under the fuse box, mine got corroded at played havoc with starting and elecs.

 

[Mr Plums]

Id say the car is toast!

 

[NorthloopCup]

Put a jump lead on the engine and the other end on the battery earth terminal. That'll rule out if you do have an earth issue or if it's something else.

 

[CrippsCorner]

Yup it's 100% an earth problem. Tried again after a long walk and it wasn't working again... done the jump lead method and boom, straight on. Excuse my ignorance but this isn't something I've dealt with before. This is the bolt I struggled with when removing the bumper, could it be anything to do with this?



Behind there (sorry for the poor pictures) there are a couple of cables running... is one of these the earth?



If not is it a wheel off job to get to the earth or can I just turn the wheel and pull the lining down? That's all I did when removing the bumper.

Finally, within the engine bay there's this lead coming off the battery which looks okay but then it goes off deeper in... where does this lead to and is it worth taking the air box off to get to it for a look?

 

[JamesBryan]

That's the bumper bracket bolt. It won't be anything to do with your problem.

Need the wheel off really as it's straight in front of you as you look at the wheel face

 

[JamesBryan]

Bit like this

 

[CrippsCorner]

Thanks for the picture. I take it that's front on not top down? Kind of hard to tell. I'm only asking so many questions about it as I've not got time or tools at my new place to get the wheels off atm, whereas if there's other things/ways of checking I can get on with them before the weekend!

So to sum up, the earth points are that one above and the one connected to the actual battery terminal... is there any more?

 

[JamesBryan]

That's looking through the wheel arch with the brake caliper bottom right.

 

[NorthloopCup]

There's 3 earth points. 1 at the back edge of the gearbox, 1 at the front where the battery earths out and the final one is the earth strap between the gearbox and the chassis as pictured above mate.
The earth point at the back of the box is about smack bang inline with the driveshaft and it's viewable from under the bonnet.

 

[NorthloopCup]

I'd say that your issue is the gearbox to chassis earth.

 

[CrippsCorner]

Thanks guys appreciated. Do you reckon it's possible to see if the straps come off through the wheels? I guess my investigation is over for today as it's getting dark now. Which brings me to my final question for now! Once it's running... it's not going to cut out is it? Hoping I can drive to work, then if it fails later on, I just use the jump lead trick to bring it back to life again. Don't want it cutting out whilst driving though!

Meanwhile, if anyone has an image of the third earth point as mentioned by @NorthloopCup that'd be wicked :smile:

 

[NorthloopCup]

View attachment 129743 Bit like this

@kayzee this is the 3rd earth point I'm on about.

 

[CrippsCorner]

Sorry yeah I meant part two then I guess lol... the one at the back of the gearbox. I imagine it's quite hard to take a photograph of, I'm after a 001.mph arrow

 

[loggyboy]

Check pics in here
http://www.cliosport.net/threads/car-died-and-wont-start.762168/

 

[CrippsCorner]

Cheers buddy, very helpful. It seems like in his case at least it could potentially be reached from above in the engine bay, hmm... might give this a go at the weekend as have sorted lifts until then lol.

 

[Rob]

Where in Essex are you? Get it over to evil giraffe's on Saturday afternoon and I'll take a look.

 

[CrippsCorner]

Cheers buddy, I'm in Southend. Have a mate that says he should be able to lend me a hand tomorrow after work but if not I'll give you a shout!

Just thinking (probably stupidly) if I can use the jump lead method from the battery to the chassis, doesn't that mean it must be that earth that's at fault?

 

[loggyboy]

Cheers buddy, I'm in Southend. Have a mate that says he should be able to lend me a hand tomorrow after work but if not I'll give you a shout!

Just thinking (probably stupidly) if I can use the jump lead method from the battery to the chassis, doesn't that mean it must be that earth that's at fault?

That would point to it being the earth lead from battery to chassis and no others.

 

[CrippsCorner]

Well dropped it off at my mates garage in the early hours and he was trying it all day and driving it about and never once got it to fault. I drove it home without a problem... proper weird! Kind of hard to fix when it's working. Maybe it's just one of those things. Will attempt short journeys all next week and see how I get on before I try anything bigger.