Chas' Daily 172 thread

[RS Charlie]

I can appreciate that there are many of these threads present but then there is also more than one way to skin a cat . Whatever this thread may offer to people all the better .

How did I come to own a Clio? In all honesty it was by pure coincidence. Years ago when I drove a friend's Clio 172 I did not mind the engine punch at all! The steering was a little so so however considering I owned a 205 GTi at the time and I had my reservations about the chassis, albeit the chassis has improved the example I drove.

Firstly, let's go through the previous French fancies I owned. The ball initially got rolling when I bought a 306 GTi-6; This car was a CAT D but even with 99k it was a very clean example with work clearly done to it over the years. With me having a classic project on the side however and my job status not being great it had to go after 18 months of wonderful ownership. I am going back around 7 years ago here

After this a few friends and I had an idyllic idea of competing in the then infamous 205 Challenge. And so our hunt began a non sunroof 205 GTi 1.6 to utilise the better gearing etc. After alot of searching this car turned up. A 3 owner car with 169k on the clock but being very good mechanically, including a stack of receipts right from when the car was new, a new radiator, cambelt and water pump in additon to a whole host of other things. It was a bit of a shocker on the bodywork mind you:

This did not stop us from going to Bilstein Group A dampers up front and Group N dampers on the rear with a solidly mounted rear beam complete with Group N engine mounts, with some Toyo R888s to finish things off. It was quite a joy to drive after this.

As a daily smoker I ended up buying a 306 DTurbo Meridian. This was surprisingly quite a nice drive and very comfortable. In some ways it was more fun than the GTi-6 I hate to say!

Finally, my Pug ownership culminated with a ropey 106 GTi which I basically got ready for the MOT and sorted out many of the untidy bits:

Then I finally owned a very ropey Clio in the 1.4 16v Format! It would require a new interior, an engine mount and one or two other bits (exhaust hangers) to make it something good ; it was a different car at the end in all honesty and it was not all that bad. It was an nicer drive than a 1.4 16V Lupo I had on loan at the time!

Fast foward to a year ago and I bought myself a boyhood dream of a car ; a Series 1 Escort RS Turbo. My plans of initially dalying it however soon came to a swift end ; Fords do love to rust, and with 100BHP more on tap from the factory I guess MPG and reliability were never going to come as standard. Something had to be done ; I still had a couple of classic cars to sell as well...

After this was sold I have enough classic cars to keep me busy! With me now becoming a 1 classic car man a daily was required. Many cars entered the list including the following:

1) Audi TT 225 - Most of these seemed ropey and tired for my budget and with a plethora of common issues.
2) Mini Cooper S R53 - Same as the above and the day to day MPG put me off (the above seem to be more frugal!).
3) Mercedes W124 300TD. Many of these seemed either pricey for a W124 or simply tired. Maybe they have increased in value.

So a varied choice! A Clio 172 has been considered on many occasions but I never quite gelled with them as I did with the 306 or 205s in all honesty. Their plus points were hard to ignore though (good MPG combined with a number of toys. Add to that a great chassis and a pokey engine and they are a lovely package even with the lacklustre steering).

Eventually, one turned up, but I shall digress more at a later date .

 

[RS Charlie]

There I was giving everyone my life history (well, far from it ) but there was only one mention of a Clio Sport! I always originally preferred the overall styling of the 182 but preferred the power delivery of the 172. When this car turned up it was potentially a little pricey according to a few on here but is was also the cleanest car I have seen out the many I had seen.

Days before I almost secured a deal on this:

A brown 1275 GT which was running a Stage 3 1330 engine. Boy that car flew! However, I was under no illusions as to what it would require. With that in mind the owner pondered over my offer, despite me wanting a car quickly as a means of transport. The Mini was pushing my budget however.

Anyway, back to the Clio. After seeing how clean the car was and with the extra bits fitted a deal was struck. Here is the car:

A 172 with 69k with a stack of service history including bills from Renault from when the car was relatively new! This car was quite a change from the other tired sheds I had seen! The cambelt had been changed at 29k with it seeming to new new Brembo Max discs braking OK (albeit a little noisy). The extras also included the following:

Refurbished Speedline Turini Wheels with Conti and Toyos all round with good tread
182 Cup rear spoiler
Proflow 182 esque Stainless Rear silencer
Renault Sport Floor mats
Cup/Fabia? front splitter
Carbon Fibre washer jet blanks
Quantum Remap

I guess with all of those things in the mix maybe the price was not too bad! I have always loved the Turini wheels and the little bits always do cost a bit eventually. The stainless silencer was a big bonus for me, given how often the pattern rear silencers seem to fail on the 172s ; a friend of mine once changed two of them in the space of 3 years! His genuine item from 2 years ago is still on the car...

The remap also made the engine more civilised. Not quite as zestful as a stock 172 but possibly easier to live with in traffic etc. ; it really does pull well around town without screaming the engine.

Given the car was good to go it was soon pushed into daily service. I had underestimated just how good these cars are! I loved my 205 but this does feel like a 205 GTi with slightly crapper steering but with way more power and more toys! High praise I know but justified.

All was going well until a few details were noticed; I misread the date on the cambelt schedule; it was done 5 years ago. This was indeed a facepalm moment. Furthermore the dephaser was rattling slightly at tickover, which I was quietly hoping to be an aux belt tensioner. This was not great news but hey ho! Furthermore the brakes starting making grinding noises despite the discs and pads appearing to be very new ; the braking did not seem to be all that when pushed hard!

But, the car was almost spot on otherwise and so for a short while anyway the miles pressed on enjoyably with 37MPG being the average figure for when I bought the car .

 

[RS Charlie]

It is time to update this once more.

With this done it was time to push the car back into daily use. So far the MPG has been between 28-42MPG going via the tank to tank method. Over mixed driving biased towards town work 34MPG is not unheard of.

To be honest my car has been OK as a daily runner. Despite paying a little too much I did overlook a few things when buying it:

1) The brakes were not all that - Done

2) Once driven for close to an hour a slight rattle developed on idle - Done

3) Cambelt was due on years and not mileage. -Done

4) Sort out the AC or lack of. -Done

Being a daily, and while I did not max my budget to buy this car the Escort was taking its share of cash for different reasons as seen here:
http://www.talkaudio.co.uk/ipb/index.php/topic/374736-well-that-did-not-last-long-new-car-content/

After going through the receipts I noticed someone had put the wrong spark plugs in ; Bosch Super 4s over the NGK Platinum plugs. These were changed with a full service being given at the same time. The plugs certainly looked interested after 20k miles worth of service:

At the same time I piled on quite a few miles onto the car, using it to get a friend's new purchase amongst other things ; a Pug 106 1.5D. Through all of these trips the MPG was surprising, although it was a reason why I bought the car. I am seeing around 28MPG around town, mid 30s generally and low 40s on long motorway trips keeping below 80MPH. Not bad at all IMO. Those figures were obtained via the 'tank to tank' method, not via the optimistic on board computer.

With the cambelt and dephaser (it was rattling) being due for a change at 70,000 miles as a result of the belt being 5 years old I gritted my teeth and sent the car down to BTM Performance. As always he lived up to his reputation quite well. When he offered to drop the car back to me I did warn him of the car's iffy brakes! Sure enough he did call them awful :lol:. However, the car was given a clean bill of health otherwise with the Clio said to be one of the cleaner examples .

With this all done it was noted that the previous specialist had the timing ever so slightly out ; maybe they used a dial gauge to find TDC as opposed to the timing pin, who knows?

At this point it went down to a Clio Sport RR day to see what was what. For the at the wheels power it was up there with the 182s

.:

There I am signing my life, well, the car's life away...:

I just had the brakes left to do ; when the specialist drove the car he described the brakes as 'shocking' and when I lent the car to my sister she did comment on how the brakes were interesting for bringing the car to a halt on the motorway. Something had to be done.

The specialist noticed that I had the anti-rattle springs in place on the pad carriers, feeling that this caused my brake pads to seize in and thus ruin the discs. He said to remove them, but I was aware from people who have done this that they rattle like mad at low speed.

Enter stage left:

Some discs, OE spec pads, copper grease, brake grease, and some determination:

Initially, everything looked fine:

Why am I changing these?:

Ah, that will be why:

Yup, the discs were cream crackered. One of them had actually formed a 2mm step from where it had worn down so that the grooves were flush with the disc in places. I potentially could have cleaned up the plates but I simply bought new instead.

Some people love using copper grease everywhere on brakes but I am generally not a fan, finding that it can congeal and semi seize things. This sliding pin was a case in point:

I think I found out why the brake pads seized into the carrier as well. There was a slight amount of rust build up beneath the sliding plates on the carrier. On 80s Brembo 4 pots, this 'plate lift' (Google will reveal more) phenomenon will generally result in the same issue, meaning that the caliper generally has to be sent away for refurbishing ultimately. With this, I ground back the rust until they were flat once more, put some etch primer down followed by brake grease before replacing the slider plates.

After this it was a simple case of reassembly:

For those of you who have not fallen asleep there was one thing left to do on the car ; regas the AC. This has never worked under my ownership. So off the car went to an AC specialist I have previously used. After performing the vacuum test (and finding 50g worth of stuff in there) there were surprisingly no leaks detected (or major in the guy's words in terms of what a vacuum test can do). After which the car was regassed. It is great to have the AC back working in the car for sure, especially for this week!

The other thing for me to do is try to drive it less! It sounds odd I admit, but it is about one of the few low mileage cars I have bought! However, it is very enjoyable at the moment!

 

[RS Charlie]

For quite some time, well, since I bought the car the reversing lights have never worked. Car parks had been interesting to say the least. I heard that the gearbox sensor was an issue here but I thought I would check the car out first, given that the gearbox has to be partially drained for the sensor to be fitted due to its location.

After obtaining a new reversing sensor, establishing that it went to a dead short upon closing I shorted the wires out on the car with the ignition on. Sure enough the reversing lights worked for the very first time ever in my ownership. With that in mind I ordered 4 litres of Elf's finest; Elf Tranself NFJ 75W80 GL4+ gearbox oil. With some food grade plastic tubing and a funnel I was ready to get stuck in.

Whilst I was draining the gearbox oil I cleaned the misting oil around the selector shaft and noticed a slight amount of play in one of the linkages at the bottom of the gearbox, but the selector shaft was play free.

What was strange was how clean the gearbox oil was that came out of the gearbox! Maybe it had been done before. However, with the new Elf stuff in the gearbox is now pretty much silent :smiley:. Furthermore the gear changes improved from cold. Drivers need not have to guess when I was reversing out :smile:.

Now to look into changing the bush/rod at the bottom of the gearbox in an effort to improve the gearchanges. Any ideas if the parts are available seperately?

Fast forward a month and there was less to change on the car (Steering wheel if I was being picky but it is not bad by any stretch, and maybe a front end respray, but again it is not that bad especially for it being a daily and maybe the top engine mount), it is almost feeling strange!

When the car went to BTM Performance Fred commented on the car's great condition but pointed out a few things I should keep an eye on. While most of these have been taken care of the thermostat had not. He reckoned that with a new one the car would run a little smoother and be just so. With the old thermostat the gauge used to sit bang on half way, maybe go under by half a mm or go the other way, where they tend to sit (slightly above halfway). On the basis that winter is coming and there seems to be little evidence of the coolant being changed I went to Renault to purchase some Type D and a new thermostat.

Initially all looked tickety boo:

Again, everything looked OK:

Errrr, maybe not! The inner thermostat seal had perished and split, causing one side of the seal to expand and come away.

I then filled the engine up with Type-D until coolant came out of the bleed hose when I then filled the coolant to the max and fired it up. It seemed to warm up quicker than previously and the gauge stayed just slightly above 1/2 way without budging at all! On my drive back the coolant level dropped to the minimum where I promptly topped it up once the car had cooled down. After this it seems that the coolant level has finally settled down once more back to where it used to sit (a bit below the MAXI level on the header tank).

Maybe it was placebo but the car was quite sharp on the throttle which I put down to the remap ; a friend of mine was not too keen about this from his 172. It did seem smoother than before for sure. The heater became hotter than before, handy when winter was round the corner. I had cars where the gauge does not even approach halfway!

A few months on from the last bit of work to the car it has been a case of business as usual. The car has been performing well, except for a water leak in the boot appearing the originate from the N/S/R. I shall have to start stripping things down but I suspect it's coming from the rear cluster. I am not sure if I left the cluster nut loose but I have simply refitted it for now and to see what happens.

In more exciting news it seemed like a good idea to do just what other Clio Sport drivers appear to do ; a trackday! I had meant to do this with all of my cars but it has only happened to a select few unfortunately! The day began with a damp start at Cadwell Park. With rain being forecasted, having 3mm on my front tyres in addition to the car appearing to slide about on the sighting lap I was not looking forward to the rest of the day, with a few thoughts of a waste of time going through my head. I had booked some instruction however .

This however did not matter. Rain or shine it was a joy to drive the car around Cadwell. The instruction from the tutor also helped quite a bit with considering a few things I had not done so previously. It is fair to say that I drove away a happy man that day, even if I did use almost a full tank around Cadwell!

What was quite surprising was how great the car was at speed through the corners and some of the machinery it showed up on track! OTOH maybe the wet weather came into my favour with a FWD hot hatch ; the Caterhams didn't seem massively quick around track surprisingly! However, there were a few surprisingly quick cars on the day including a Javelin stickered MX-5, an Orange MkII Golf and a very clean looking Scooby which was going around the track like a stabbed rat, albeit not quite as reliable as some cars.

There were better shots but it seems they are not on the website.

However, I do need to master the art of making the car c**k its rear wheel up in the car [/facepalm]. I don't recall doing so at all I hate to say! I could argue that it was raining alot and that there was quite a bit of stuff in the boot but it seems I should have tried harder or taken a different approach to make it happen!

 

[ilovewilly]

Very similar vehicle history to myself

Nice write up.

 

[RS Charlie]

Very similar vehicle history to myself :smile:

Nice write up.

Cheers and thanks. I see that you have a coveted Rallye and 205 GTi6 - With the latter my friends and I were debating over which engine to put in - the light but fragile Mi16 unit or the 2.0 engine.

A few more things have happened since the last update but I shall upload the pics first .

 

[RS Charlie]

It's been a while but there is a few little things to update on.

Like many Clios it has character. When I say Character what I mean to say is now again some things do break on it. Like many the washer pump died. I have heard rumours of how tricky it was to remove. I did not envisage the driveway looking like it did however!:

A wiper tool (the arms were stuck alot onto the shafts, I needed a gear puller on one of them!), a bit of moaning a few teas later and everything was off. However, I thought changing the motor would be the easy part! How wrong I was.

Off I went to GSF to get another motor. It looked just like the one I removed. Great I thought, just switch things across and happy days. Of course, you already know it is not going to be that simple. The Motor from GSF only put windscreen fluid onto the front screen whether you selected the front washers or the rears to work via the wiper stalk. Not a biggie but bloody annoying! After going back to GSF we concluded nothing else off their shelf would work. Would I have to spend £50 on a Renault item? Fortunately Leamco came to the rescue and with a new seal as well! An hour later and I had a full house of washers working!

Some of you may have noticed a minor detail on my car changing. As much as I love Turinis the car is a daily, and I hate kerbed wheels, not helped on a car with appaling steering lock. I am not a kerb hunter by a long shot but the lack of rim protection on my current tyres (Contis and Toyos) really does not help. I wanted a set of 15s for this reason as well as curiosity but also for practicality. Being a little tight (when did OZ F1s and Turbines become expensive?) this is what I ended up with:

Suffice to say they looked interesting on the car:

After gathering enough cash the Turinis went back on, but not after the car saw a layer of Collinite along with the wheels. Turinis do look good eh?

An engine cover also went onto the engine:

But with two Continental slicks I would hardly be able to drive it anywhere. Off they went for a refurb. Because of the Clio I ended up taking the Escort down:

Suffice to say, the wheels looked quite different when they came back!

Like the Turinis, I also treated these to a dose of Collinite in the hope of them being easier to clean in the future:

At the time I did not have the right nuts for the cap, and so I went capless. It is fair to say they look better in the new colour:

But like any Clio it can be a needy mistress. At MOT time the 2 year old track rod end decided it would have play in it after 18k. I did wonder why it felt wierd but I put it down to the tyres which are Uniroyal Rainsport 3s. They grip, but they are not most responsive of tyres from the cars I have driven with them on.

Hopefully the Lemforder item will last longer.

Likewise the 3 year old pattern exhaust hanger decided it would also let the exhaust hang low and knock against parts of the car. With a new item on all is well again:

Yup, that's goosed:

It may have been aided staying together with a zip tie!:

With this all done the car was spot on. Expect one more thing but this is down to me!

The car has a cracked ABS ring which at low speed causes pulsing in the brakes. Now and again the ABS/SERV combo come on, probably twice in a year. One day when I was low on fuel I had Connect 3 appear on the dashboard:

French cars, who'd have 'em? They are fun for sure however!