Clio 200 - 12,000 mile detailed costs

[MarkCup]

Have just brimmed the tank, all cost data is in, so here's the usual...

Mileage continues building at a rate of 19k per annum

Fuel price has been good lately

Economy averages at 33.5 mpg although I've seen 43 once, and 40 is readily available if I can be arsed. Llandow is a little obvious.

All in, this is how it stands. It's been a painful couple of weeks recently.

PE2s that appear to have evaporated, and too much kerb at Llandow have cost me £1k. Oops. Does appear that the AMAP rate of 45p per mile is a bit tight.

Having come from my 130k mile from new in 2003 172 Cup, I'm as smitten with the 200's abilities as I ever was with the Cup.

Only done two trackdays so far but it's going out again in August on a fresh set of Yoko AD08s. Excited already

 

[Daniel]

Looking at that does make me question why I bother owning so many cars.

What an absolutely horrific waste of money.

 

[MarkCup]

What an absolutely horrific waste of money.

FLOL, I couldn't agree more! Worth it though. Just.

 

[Sir_Dave]

Brilliant as per usual Mark.

Nicely highlights what most people ignore when buying a 'new car to save money' ... depreciation.

 

[Silent_Scone]

Well that's depressing.


It's a shame really...

That french cars are s**t I mean.

 

[Revels]

Nicely highlights what most people ignore when buying a 'new car to save money' ... depreciation.

That's the big one really.

Whatever you buy will cost you in tax/insurance/fuel/repairs, obviously at a different rate between cars but it still applies.

How are you basing the depreciation? What you paid vs the cheapest similar model you can find at the time?

 

[gez 172]

Good threads as usual showing the cost.

But I can't see how you can enjoy the car while counting for every penny you spend on it.

 

[Chapppers11]

I hate/love reading your cost threads.

 

[Christopher]

I didn't even read it... it'd make me feel sick.

I'll just go for a drive instead. Makes it all worth it. Just.

 

[MarkCup]

That's the big one really.

Whatever you buy will cost you in tax/insurance/fuel/repairs, obviously at a different rate between cars but it still applies.

How are you basing the depreciation? What you paid vs the cheapest similar model you can find at the time?

When I first did this a few months I took an average private sale price from Autotrader at the time, and it worked out at £5 per day since I bought it.

I've left it in at £5 per day since meaning currently my 200 is 'valued' at £8,855 - which I don't think is too optimistic.

 

[MarkCup]

Good threads as usual showing the cost.

But I can't see how you can enjoy the car while counting for every penny you spend on it.

It's no effort at all. A simple Android app which makes it ultra easy to quickly enter anything I spend. Then I export it, import the raw data into Excel and out this comes.

I get a bit of a kick from doing it tbh...that's the accountant in me LOL

What I'm hoping is that as the miles pile on we'll see a material reduction in the overall cost per mile which will highlight the benefit of keeping cars for a while (and the absurdity of regularly changing them, unless you're Sir_Dave and seemingly depreciation proof).

 

[Chip-mk1]

Genuinely interesting

Where did you get the depreciation value from? Seems a little low to me TBH.
What did you actually pay and what do you believe it is worth now?

 

[Sir_Dave]

unless you're Sir_Dave and seemingly depreciation proof

Its no real secret what i do though really, i just buy as close to trade price as i can get away with (usually 15-20% less than retail), then sell up when the realistic private sale price has depreciated to within a few hundred pounds of the original 'trade price' that i bought the car at - normally 3-6 months later.

A trader buys at trade to sell on at profit straight away, whereas i use that 15-20% 'margin' to give myself depreciation proof motoring for a few months. The only real exception was the M3, which i bought with my heart rather than my head.

 

[MarkCup]

Genuinely interesting

Where did you get the depreciation value from? Seems a little low to me TBH.
What did you actually pay and what do you believe it is worth now?

Paid £10k originally. Depreciation calculated at £5 per day so now worth £8,855.

200, 3 years old, just MOTd, brand new front hubs, 4 brand new tyres, standard throughout, and on 30k miles.

Is £8,855 for this ^^^^ a bit rich?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Paid £10k originally. Depreciation calculated at £5 per day so now worth £8,855.

200, 3 years old, just MOTd, brand new front hubs, 4 brand new tyres, standard throughout, and on 30k miles.

Is £8,855 for this ^^^^ a bit rich?

Probably not too far wrong then from the quick look I just had at what similar things are up for sale at currently (which seems to be advertised at 9-10K) and allowing for the fact most things are up for 5-10% more than they actually sell for, but I guess someone like Steve@Rsport or Daniel would be better to ask.

 

[MarkCup]

Its no real secret what i do though really, i just buy as close to trade price as i can get away with (usually 15-20% less than retail), then sell up when the realistic private sale price has depreciated to within a few hundred pounds of the original 'trade price' that i bought the car at - normally 3-6 months later.

A trader buys at trade to sell on at profit straight away, whereas i use that 15-20% 'margin' to give myself depreciation proof motoring for a few months. The only real exception was the M3, which i bought with my heart rather than my head.

What about admin charges on changing insurance?

And the fact that you tend to, after each acquisition, spend/modify/tweak to suit (thinking swirl flaps on the 320d etc.)?

Doesn't that negate the saving made through shrewd buying?

 

[Revels]

Its no real secret what i do though really, i just buy as close to trade price as i can get away with (usually 15-20% less than retail), then sell up when the realistic private sale price has depreciated to within a few hundred pounds of the original 'trade price' that i bought the car at - normally 3-6 months later.

A trader buys at trade to sell on at profit straight away, whereas i use that 15-20% 'margin' to give myself depreciation proof motoring for a few months. The only real exception was the M3, which i bought with my heart rather than my head.

Hmmmm. Is it really worth it? You're not buying and selling 50k cars so that margin is a lot smaller?

The cars you've sold in the last year..

£3,395
£6,395
£7,495
£3,995
£4,995

= Average of £5,225

If you get 20% off whatever the price to start with. You save £1k. You sell again when it gets within a few hundred. You've got insurance swapping, numberplate swapping, petrol going to view, HPI checks, advert costs, wasting weekends waiting for tyre kickers when you're selling.

I'd 'pay' quite a lot to avoid all of the above hassle.

Seems like a lot of for not a lot of gain. I think you just like to swap and buy other things, rather than doing it to avoid depreciation. But you use the latter to justify it to yourself.

 

[Jimbo_M]

Very interesting thread dude thanks for sharing.

 

[Tom]

Its interesting, i've asked my work mates that run our TCO program if they can let you have an evaluation copy.

I've also asked CAP for residuals on your cars code, could give you a more accurate residual value.

 

[MarkCup]

Its interesting, i've asked my work mates that run our TCO program if they can let you have an evaluation copy.

I've also asked CAP for residuals on your cars code, could give you a more accurate residual value.

TCO?

 

[Chapppers11]

Is it not just because you get bored Dave?

 

[Tom]

TCO?

http://www.jato.com/in/tco/Pages/TCO.aspx

Might be a smidge OTT. (over the top )

 

[Gally]

Mark if you give me your reg i'll properly value your car on Glass. Cap is a little dodgy sometimes and i'll admit Glass' can sometimes read high on the retail. I'll post it up on here if you wish.

 

[Tom]

CAP values tend to be more realistic. But you are correct to a degree.

 

[Sir_Dave]

What about admin charges on changing insurance?

And the fact that you tend to, after each acquisition, spend/modify/tweak to suit (thinking swirl flaps on the 320d etc.)?

Doesn't that negate the saving made through shrewd buying?

If you get 20% off whatever the price to start with. You save £1k. You sell again when it gets within a few hundred. You've got insurance swapping, numberplate swapping, petrol going to view, HPI checks, advert costs, wasting weekends waiting for tyre kickers when you're selling.

Admin charge is £17.50 (+ whatever the premium change is), number plate is £80, HPI/Glass is £20, petrol to view, well that does depend i suppose, then train fair to collect is usually less than £50. Advert costs are free (PH & here), & been lucky with viewings in that nobody has ever gone away without buying the car lol. I estimate that changing cars usually costs me circa £200 all in.

So that means you only buy the ones that are approprately priced, if you have to spend a few quid straight away (swirl flap removal is circa £200 for example, or £40 in parts), that should always be factored into the buy price. In addition, i generally try to buy cars that have long tax/MOT and good tyres, just perhaps need a service/easy repair, that i will do myself for nothing.

Quite often people will sell a BMW as it needs an Inspection 2 for example, which at the dealer is £600, in parts, its circa £120 lol, then you're fine (fingers crossed) for the next 18k miles ... sometimes things like a broken window regulator or a noisy wheel bearing mean that the car can be picked up for peanuts, when in effect, they are a super cheap repair if you have a toolkit and some knowledge of how to fix them.

Its how dealers make profit at the end of the day, so if you're going it simply to reduce your ownership costs, you do in effect, have quite a bit of 'margin' to play with. Does help that i enjoy buying/selling things and changing my car regularly though

 

[MarkCup]

Mark if you give me your reg i'll properly value your car on Glass. Cap is a little dodgy sometimes and i'll admit Glass' can sometimes read high on the retail. I'll post it up on here if you wish.

AK09 TOV

 

[Gally]

Written that advert yet Dave?

Agree about buying clever in the 2nd hand market. I paid nearly less than trade for the TT, it would do megabucks at a dealer. Negates the possiblity of heavy depreciation. Infact I could have driven it home, advertised it and made £700 really for a quick sale.

 

[Chip-mk1]

CAP values tend to be more realistic. But you are correct to a degree.

We use modified a version of CAP prices on some of the finance software I write and they tend to be great for run of the mill cars but IME the more specialist you get the further out they tend to be, so a 200 might be starting to head towards that. I would think that Steve@Rsport for example will know a lot more than CAP in this case.

 

[Tom]

We use modified a version of CAP prices on some of the finance software I write and they tend to be great for run of the mill cars but IME the more specialist you get the further out they tend to be, so a 200 might be starting to head towards that. I would think that Steve@Rsport for example will know a lot more than CAP in this case.

You'd do well to argue that against a dealer during trade in. Do you take Steve with you? Or maybe just hand the phone to the sales guy?

No figures are 100% accurate. This exercise is supposed to be realistic example of the total cost of ownership, so the suggestion that you use industry values to work out the depreciation was purely to add to the realism.

 

[Chip-mk1]

You'd do well to argue that against a dealer during trade in. Do you take Steve with you? Or maybe just hand the phone to the sales guy?

No figures are 100% accurate. This exercise is supposed to be realistic example of the total cost of ownership, so the suggestion that you use industry values to work out the depreciation was purely to add to the realism.

I was thinking more in terms of the actual value of the car, rather than a trade in price. But yes in the context of someone doing a trade in you are correct that a CAP value is a good ballpark.

 

[Gally]

 

[Tom]

I'll try to get the cap valuations now.

 

[Chip-mk1]

You have 12K miles there, not 30K miles.

 

[Gally]

My apologies chaps. Read the title to quickly, clearly!

Use the bottom list to value.

 

[Spee]

Well that's depressing.


It's a shame really...

That french cars are s**t I mean.

:clown:

 

[DrR]

Good info that! Whats the app called?

 

[Daniel]

Hmmmm. Is it really worth it? You're not buying and selling 50k cars so that margin is a lot smaller?

The cars you've sold in the last year..

£3,395
£6,395
£7,495
£3,995
£4,995

= Average of £5,225

If you get 20% off whatever the price to start with. You save £1k. You sell again when it gets within a few hundred. You've got insurance swapping, numberplate swapping, petrol going to view, HPI checks, advert costs, wasting weekends waiting for tyre kickers when you're selling.

I'd 'pay' quite a lot to avoid all of the above hassle.

Seems like a lot of for not a lot of gain. I think you just like to swap and buy other things, rather than doing it to avoid depreciation. But you use the latter to justify it to yourself.

Thats exactly what he does.

 

[Revels]

How many times you going to edit what you're saying? Lol.

Now what I said doesn't make sense.

 

[R-Sport.]

2009 Clio 200 FF non recaro 30k

Trade offer. £8100
Private £8500-£9000 Depending on options of car & sellers time requirements
Retail ~ £9195- 9500
All Depending on condition.

Trade offer could go to 7k on the poorer condition cars......

S