Clio 2006 1.4 16v not cranking after head work

[Nash]

Hi all, I come to you at the end of my teather so please excuse the abrupt nature of this post.

I bought a 2006 Clio recently 1.4 16v it was cheap as it needed the head gasket doing. Not a problem, it started and drove and didn't boil up so I bought it and replaced the head gasket, timing belt, all pulleys and water pump.

Came to put it all back together (I've timed it correctly using the correct cam locking tools and crank locking tools) turned over by hand totally fine.

Put the battery back on, turned the key....nothing.

Dash lights up, and that's it, no clicks at the starter motor, nothing.

Here's what I've tried so far after googling and browsing this forum for almost 2 weeks.

1) checked all fuses, all fine.
2) checked tdc sensor for resistance and cleaned it.
3) put on a new battery
4) checked under battery box for visibly broken wires
5) checked white starter motor signal wire.
6) tried spare key
7) tried the imobbiliser reset trick with the doors open etc...

All of the above results in the same issue, turn key, dash lights up, red imobbiliser light goes solid, one beep from dash, engine does not crank.

I'm at my Witt's end....any suggestions at all?

Or anyone in the Leeds area LS10 who has a Renault CLIP device I'll happily pay you to come and plug it in a diagnose for me.

Please get in touch.

 

[White16valver]

Are all the earths attached and clean?

It could be worth getting hold of a wiring diagram and then tracing everything through to make sure it's connected etc. (although that would be a massive faff lol)

Hope you can get it sorted, good work so far!

 

[Nash]

Yes mate, checked all earth's that I can see, the one going to the chassis around the battery box and the one that connects to the gearbox, all solid cables no signs of flex or splits. And were never touched during the strip down/rebuild.

Are there any other earth's that I have missed ?

 

[White16valver]

I am no expert, I'm afraid, so I'm mostly guessing... lol

Are there any other sensors that might be unplugged??

 

[Nash]

I can't think that there is. I literally plugged everything back in that I unplugged. I can hear the fuel pump priming when I turn the key. And I've ran a straight 12v to the starter motor, it turned the engine over fine but when I check the spark there was no spark either so I'm worried something's fried or lost sync with the ECu so put the car into some wierd imobbiliser mode...

Really getting desperate, anyone in the Leeds area who can come and have a look id happily pay you. Please get in touch. I'll do you a brew as well!!!

 

[White16valver]

I may be wrong, but I recall some recommendations previously about leaving the battery disconnected for half an hour or something, to let things 'reset' - but I'm guessing that it was disconnected for longer than that already!

There was a thread the other day that had the decoder ring around the ignition socket failing, that fixed an issue when replaced (and it's not coded so should be relatively cheap) - that could be something else to try?

I think getting it plugged in to check out the codes would be the best option right now!

 

[Nash]

That's the problem, it's not reporting any error codes. My mate checked it with his odbc scanner thing. Nothing reporting at all error wise.

I've tried all the battery tricks, leaving it off for half hour, putting it back on. Doing the same again with the key at position 2. Holding the buttons on the key while turning it etc etc honestly I've googled and tried every suggestion so far (even the one where the guy suggested wrapping the key in foil) all result in the same issue.

The imobbiliser light flashes steady when no key is in. The. When you turn to the start position it goes solid red, gives 1 (one second beep) then is silent. All dash lights are on and radio comes on. But starter motor will not spring into life.

A guy has quoted me £90 quid to recover the car and diagnose on his Renault CLIP at his place but if someone has one locally and can come to me, I'd rather pay you.

Anyone!? Help 8'(

 

[Dex90]

Have you got some jump leads ? Connect some to your engine block and the negative end to your battery . Try and crank then.
Have you tried a fresh battery ? Have you got a multimeter ? What's the voltage across battery terminals ?
Have you tried messing around with wiring loom underneath airbox? Moving it about and trying to crank ?
Have you checked starter motor relay ? Is that working correctly ? Have you tried jumping the starter motor relay ?

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[White16valver]

Is the ECU coded? (as in, could you swap another one in to see if it makes any difference? Or could you take the cover off the current one to check nothing untoward has happened?)

 

[White16valver]

Do you have a second key you could try?

 

[Nash]

Have you got some jump leads?
Yes
Connect some to your engine block and the negative end to your battery . Try and crank then. ? Not quite sure I get this?

Have you tried a fresh battery ?
Yes, one that was showing 14v across the terminals off my vectra.
Have you got a multimeter ?
Yes
What's the voltage across battery terminals ? 12v on the original battery, 14v on the new one
Have you tried messing around with wiring loom underneath airbox?
Yes
Moving it about and trying to crank ?
Yes
Have you checked starter motor relay ?
Yes
Is that working correctly ?
Continuity was fine
Yea Have you tried jumping the starter motor relay ?
not the relay, but the starter motor itself, it ran fine

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[Nash]

Do you have a second key you could try?

Yes mate, tried primary and spare key, both do the same. Unlocks car, turns to start position, das lights up, nothing else.

 

[Nash]

Is the ECU coded? (as in, could you swap another one in to see if it makes any difference? Or could you take the cover off the current one to check nothing untoward has happened?)

I believe they are coded, and electrics are not my thing. Don't have a spare to test am afraid.

 

[Dex90]

Is your immobilizer light turning off before you try and crank ? Key position 2 red immobilizer light should turn off

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[Nash]

Is your immobilizer light turning off before you try and crank ? Key position 2 red immobilizer light should turn off

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I shall clarify that shortly when I get home. I've been turning it straight to start position and I can tell you that in The start position (click 3 if you like) the light is solid red, it's also in that position that I get the 1 second beep

 

[Nash]

Is your immobilizer light turning off before you try and crank ? Key position 2 red immobilizer light should turn off

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Ok here's what happens
Unlock car
Key not in ignition = light flashing at roughly 1 second intervals
Key in ignition = same 1 second interval flash
Turn to position 1 = same 1 second interval
Turn to position 2 = solid red (+1 beep from dash)
Turn to position 3 = solid red (no beeps)

Dash lights that remain illuminated are handbrake light only. Message screen displaying mileage and trip distance etc

 

[Dex90]

Immobilizer light ( red light ) should turn off in second position after a few seconds. Sounds like your cars not recognizing your key for whatever reason. Try turning your car ignition to position 2 ( dashboard lights up ) and leave it for a few mins. turn off and back to position 2 . Has immobilizer light gone off ?

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[Nash]

Immobilizer light ( red light ) should turn off in second position after a few seconds. Sounds like your cars not recognizing your key for whatever reason. Try turning your car ignition to position 2 ( dashboard lights up ) and leave it for a few mins. turn off and back to position 2 . Has immobilizer light gone off ?

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Just been and done this
Left key in at position 2 - Solid Red Light
Turned it off - flashing 1 sec sequenece as before
turned it back to position 2 - Solid RED
Turned to start - Solid RED

 

[Dex90]

Hmm, it's Definitely an immobilizer issue but don't see why it wouldn't work for both keys you have. I had a similar issue and the method mentioned before worked for me but also turning the key off multiple times and back to position 2 , waiting for a few seconds , turning off back again to position 2 the immobilizer light sometimes turned off and the car would start for me. Try opening the key and taking the board out of the key holding it closer to the ignition barrel

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[Nash]

Hmm, it's Definitely an immobilizer issue but don't see why it wouldn't work for both keys you have. I had a similar issue and the method mentioned before worked for me but also turning the key off multiple times and back to position 2 , waiting for a few seconds , turning off back again to position 2 the immobilizer light sometimes turned off and the car would start for me. Try opening the key and taking the board out of the key holding it closer to the ignition barrel

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Cheers for the suggestions by the way.

just been and tried what you said, i opened the key removed the circuit board - put the key in the ignition (without the board anywhere near the ignition) sure enough the immobiliser light started flashing really quick (not authorised) - car obviously didn't start - so then i put the board right next to the ignition barrel, and at one point completely touching the metal barrel - same SOLID red light symptom happened (car still not starting)

any further suggestions, im happy to try anything at this point!

 

[Dex90]

Quick look in forum says solid red means an electrical fault somewhere, the key has been recognised and would flash like you said if it wasn't recognised. So we can rule out the key.

Have you looked at the starting and charging circuit diagram ?

That's the next thing to do I would say. I know that underneath the airbox where the wires come down from the ECU and turn off underneath the airbox towards the front of the car can break and cause electrical issues. Have you unwrapped the wires and taken a look ?

Having access to clip you can check all the electrical systems to see where the fault would lie otherwise your checking everything.

Is the plug into the throttle body on ?
Is the plug into the accelerator pedal on ?
Is the white plug connected at the bottom of the fuse box ?

I'll see if I can get a wiring diagram for starting and charging



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[Dex90]

i found my old thread where i had a starting issue, it has the wiring diagrams in post 5

https://www.cliosport.net/threads/electrical-issue.808984/

check the f8 fuse in the engine bay fusebox
check the f3 fuse in the car fusebox
check the yellow wire going to the engine bay fusebox starter relay is getting power when key is turned to position 3
try giving the pink wire coming out an earth(stick a piece of wire in the fusebox terminal underneath where the pink wire is and connect the other piece of wire to the negative terminal on your car battery. try starting car
try giving the white wire an earth and see if start motor spins.

 

[Nash]

Quick look in forum says solid red means an electrical fault somewhere, the key has been recognised and would flash like you said if it wasn't recognised. So we can rule out the key.

Have you looked at the starting and charging circuit diagram ?

That's the next thing to do I would say. I know that underneath the airbox where the wires come down from the ECU and turn off underneath the airbox towards the front of the car can break and cause electrical issues. Have you unwrapped the wires and taken a look ?

Having access to clip you can check all the electrical systems to see where the fault would lie otherwise your checking everything.

Is the plug into the throttle body on ?
Is the plug into the accelerator pedal on ?
Is the white plug connected at the bottom of the fuse box ?

I'll see if I can get a wiring diagram for starting and charging



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Have you looked at the starting and charging circuit diagram ?
Nope - if you can get me one i'll try and fathom it....
Is the plug into the throttle body on ?
Yes - 100%
Is the plug into the accelerator pedal on ?
Im gonna say yes, because when i have the Air Intake pipe off the throttle body my mate was pressing the accelerator and the Brass butterfly valve inside was opening and closing as normal.
Is the white plug connected at the bottom of the fuse box ?
hmmm will have to double check this (its dark out now) will check tomorrow - for now am gonna say yes as ive been into the fuse box more times than i care to rememebr so hopefully i wouldnt have missed and unplugged cable....(but ive been wrong before)
Have you unwrapped the wires and taken a look ?
Only the ones leading to the starter motor during my initial fault finding, i got scarred unwrapping them all as they look like a Pain in the posterior to re-wrap.

Ill carry out these checks tomorrow and update.

thanks for all your responses by the way - much appreciated.

Im one of those people who will not be beaten by something when i know full well it was working before! i've got the missus chewing my ear off "oh you shouldn't have bought it, you dont know what your doing, what a waste of money etc ect" so i am determined for my own sanity, and for the pleasure of proving her wrong, to get it going again!

FYI the car when i bought it was suffering with Head Gasket failure (i've changed more HG's then i care to remember) so changing this was on the face of it no real challenge, and to be fair doing that and the timing belt etc was pretty easy...
its a 06 Plate (3 door)
with 68K on the clock
FSH up to 57K
New Clutch at 62K
Now its got
Brand new Head gasket, Water Pump, Head bolts, All new Pulleys, Timing Belt
and it hasnt turned a wheel since putting all the new bits on!

Hence my determination to get it back to life!!!

 

[Brigsy]

Have you knocked the underbonnet fuse box cover next to the battery? If you disturb the small 4 pin relays they do stuff like this. I had the same issue when changing a battery, knocked cover then non start - relay was not fully home.

 

[Nash]

Have you knocked the underbonnet fuse box cover next to the battery? If you disturb the small 4 pin relays they do stuff like this. I had the same issue when changing a battery, knocked cover then non start - relay was not fully home.

I didn't disturb it during the initial head work, but during all this investigation yes I've been into it, checked all the fuses and relays and reseated them and even swapped some relays around all resulting in the same issue.

Next job is to start stripping the loom. There was a set of coil wires and other clips that I had to constantly move out the way while I was doing the head. I'm beginning to think that while moving them I've split a cable somewhere (hopefully) so will start stripping it back tonight to see if I can see any obvious damage.

 

[Brigsy]

It does sound like you will need to start checking wiring. Might be worth scanning with a can clip to see what faults are stored.

 

[Nash]

It does sound like you will need to start checking wiring. Might be worth scanning with a can clip to see what faults are stored.

Agreed, but I don't have access to one. Like I said earlier, I will gladly pay anyone whose in the Leeds area to come and plug their CLIP into the car and just try and see what the issue is, am not asking you to fix it, just find the issue and I'll sort it. Plleeeeaaaseee 8'-(

 

[White16valver]

Could the decoder ring be involved?
https://www.cliosport.net/threads/clio-not-starting-df067-ring-decoder.820120/

 

[Nash]

Could the decoder ring be involved?
https://www.cliosport.net/threads/clio-not-starting-df067-ring-decoder.820120/

I really don't know. I'm assuming it's ok as the key appears to be recognised by the way the imobbiliser light is behaving? Is the decoder ring susceptible to damage when replacing a batter as that's the only thing I can think of that would have interfered with it. I didn't do any internal work on the car that would have gone anywhere near the ignition or decoder ring....

 

[White16valver]

I really don't know. I'm assuming it's ok as the key appears to be recognised by the way the imobbiliser light is behaving? Is the decoder ring susceptible to damage when replacing a batter as that's the only thing I can think of that would have interfered with it. I didn't do any internal work on the car that would have gone anywhere near the ignition or decoder ring....

I swear things break out of sympathy for other things or just plain old spite... lol

 

[Nash]

I swear things break out of sympathy for other things or just plain old spite... lol

Lol so you reckon it COULD be a possibility?

 

[bloke]

It's a power/earth issue.

 

[Nash]

It's a power/earth issue.

Any idea where I could pin point that power/earth issue?

 

[bloke]

Just got to check relays etc getting power when they should be.

Easy way is white on the way should have voltage with ignition on and blacks to earth. Yellow switched live.

Depends how good you are with electrical and how lucky you are in finding it, I always say most electrical issues are a five minute fix it's just the five or six hours you spend finding the problem.

 

[White16valver]

Depends how good you are with electrical and how lucky you are in finding it, I always say most electrical issues are a five minute fix it's just the five or six hours you spend finding the problem.

So true. lol

 

[Nash]

Update - stripped all engine bay loom all the way from the battery box to every engine and ancillary connector . Not a single broken or even remotely corroded wire.

I want to set fire to the car. Will this make it run?

Can you tell it's driving me insane!?

A last ditch plea, to anyone, in the Leeds area who has a Renault CLIP device, I will PAY you to come and plug your device into the car. Please...

 

[Dex90]

Have you tried my suggestion and looked at starting and charging diagram ?


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[Nash]

Have you tried my suggestion and looked at starting and charging diagram ?


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Yes mate, did a continuity test on a the circuits all came back good.

 

[Dex90]

Did you bridge the starter motor relay to see if it would start ?

Did you check the ignition wire to the start relay was receiving power ?

Did you try giving a negative to the pink wire that comes out of the start relay an earth? ( Attach a piece of wire from pink to your negative battery )

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[White16valver]

I have nothing to add, other than to say well done on getting all that checking done, and thanks to Dex90 for his excellent suggestions!