Clio DCI wont start!

[chris_pett]

Evening all,
Had an injector go on my clio which was seized in and had to be drilled out but unfortunately metal found its way into the engine which involved taking the head off and rebuilding. Now the car will turn over fine but refuses to start even with easy start. The timing is correct and so is the voltage going to the injectors. Fuel filter has been changed and still the same problem persists.
One fault code that keeps popping up is df137? But unsure what it means?

 

[M26]

​DF137 Rail Pressure Regulation function pressure minimum/maximum

 

[chris_pett]

Thanks, so what could be at fault for it to come up?

 

[karol_SVK]

Hi,
the error can have more states (1.DEF,2.DEF...), but the most often problem is the pressure is below the minimum required for the start ( around 400 bar). The pressure is visible on any OBD2 reader.

I have just won the fight with my dci100 on the same error code last week.
I write you some tips I did, they did not harm my car, but use on your own risk, as always.
Keep things clean, delphi is very sensitive to dirt.
I was upset about my dci, so I said I either Fix it or Kill it

1. Check that your fuel regulator is working and that the regulator plug/wire is fine. You should measure just above 10V on key turning then drop below 10 a little. Try to connect 11-12V on the regulator from a power supply...you should hear it ticking often.
2. If 1 is fine, you need to check if the pump is pushing fuel or not. You can start from removing the regulator, turn the starter for a second and see if diesel comes out of the regulator place (if yes, low pressure pump is pulling diesel)
3. Put back the regulator. After that, you should check the high pressure part (if not the pressure sensor is faulty). Loosen one pipe from the rail or injector and try to start for a second, if diesel comes out.
4. If you have the pipe down, and have some tools to connect on the rail and make some pressure to test if the pressure sensor is working, its good to do it. Look at the PC if the figures change. The high pressure part on the pump has two valves, input and output, and then can be stuck/worn. If you have any pressure that you should see it on PC, even if less then required. When no pressure...pumps broken.
5. if pump is working then the injectors aj leaking too much, this was my case.

Please keep in mind the tightening torques (if someone did not overtighten things).

I hope you find out at point 1 that your regulator has stuck and does not open (you do not hear it ticking when connected to 11-12V).

Good luck, I hope it helped somehow.

 

[chris_pett]

Thanks for your help, ive tried 3 and it was ok. Will try the rest tomorrow

 

[karol_SVK]

When 3 is OK, then 2 is fine also, you dont need to remove the regulator. If the high pressure pump is working, what figures do you get on the rail pressure sensor when starting and looking at the computer? Without starting it drops to -1.
Also please check if the fuel temperature sensor is showing reasonable temperatures. This can also lead to not firing up an engine. Should be around the outside temp.

 

[chris_pett]

Unsure on how to check the rail pressure because ive only got a handheld scanner.

 

[karol_SVK]

I do not know what you can see, it should be in the live data of the engine if the scanner is capable of showing the live data.

 

[Beasley Clio182]

Silly question you have bled the injectors right ?

 

[karol_SVK]

Mine injectors were refurbed and it is not necesary to bleed them, if the pump is working correctly, the start will take more turns of the engine (up to 10), but it will push the air out. Important is you must not turn off the engine ones started after dissassebly (if not really critical things happen), but leave it ticking for a few minutes (5). Otherwise the injectors can get seized.

 

[chris_pett]

How do I go about bleeding the injectors?

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

you need to purge the system. prime the pump with the primmer bulb on the fuel filter. pump that for a few mins, spray a little easy start into the air feed and try get it to start then

 

[chris_pett]

could low compression be an issue? The gauge is reading around the 300 mark after 4-5 turns of the engine. Is there a different head gasket?

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

all the same, genuine is usually the best to go for, if the heads been skimmed to much or crap, a decompression gasket will be needed.

I would seriously try feeding the pump direct from a jerry can and then try fire it up.
have you put the injector plugs on the right ones, 3-4 are easy to mix up ( no 1 being gearbox side )

 

[chris_pett]

I've tried feeding the pump direct from a jerry can and still no luck.
i will try all the other suggestions on the weekend and see if she starts up.

 

[chris_pett]

Right,
purged the system with about 10-15 pumps of the hand pump still not starting.
unplugged n removed and checked cps sensor and still no go.
a lot of head scratching going on at the moment :banghead:

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

put a video up of what its doing when you try starting it, ie camera on thedash clocks so we can see what lights it flags up, im thinking it will bring up - STOP/ engine with stop symbol and eml light if trying to crank to long.

 

[MicKPM]

As asked earlier, have you actually got diesel at the injectors? You can prime with the bulb all you like but if there's air between the pressure vessel and the injector pipes it will not fire. Also, manual cracking will not generate enough pressure to self bleed an airlock which is why you need to open all the feeds and crank until you get fuel flow before closing them up.

If its a Delphi system and you've been forcing air thru the injectors they *may* need servicing to as they can lock up.

 

[chris_pett]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JZhI5AIDFM&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[chris_pett]

Any ideas?
​

 

[MicKPM]

Well one, your battery is flat (that won't help) and two have you checked there is fuel rather than air at the injectors yet as cranking aline isn't going ti give the required pressure.

 

[chris_pett]

Yeah the battery was getting dead by then, and when I crank it over there is fuel coming from the top of the injector pipes when I crack them open.

 

[MicKPM]

Then it needs easi-start to help it run for a minute or two so it forces proper fuel pressure up.

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

i f**king hate the sound easy start makes on diesels but it does help make them rev enough to start.
just dont go overboard, to much and you'll get easy start run off! lol

 

[chris_pett]

Used some easy start and it started straight away but it sounds dead rough? Is it a good idea to let it run for a while or stop it?
​

 

[chris_pett]

And when I rev it up it knocks a lot aswell

 

[MicKPM]

It will do that, its telling you how much it hates you but as above, go easy... a few brief squirts every couple of seconds in the inlet and it'll eventually run itself.

Its also a good idea to NOT do this in an enclosed space as the fumes will take the hair off your ballsack.

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

You got it started on easy start? Ie stopped spraying after it fired up, and when revved knocking noises?
That is fucked if that's the case.

Otherwise if you ment you made it run by using easy start on and off , do as mick said

 

[chris_pett]

I got it started with easy start then it ran for 5 minutes before I turned it off and when revved it makes a high pitched knocking noise

 

[MicKPM]

Gentle gentle, not maximum chicken or else you'll bend rods!

The idea is to get the engine to idle on its own and then to slowly start to add some revs.

 

[chris_pett]

Haha yeah I know. I'll give that a try, two of the injectors arent coded so id imagine thats not helping much

 

[MicKPM]

The codes are merely for fine control so shouldn't stop it running. It can take a few minutes to run and restart on its own again though.

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

Aslong as they aren't 65 injectors, you should be fine without coding. 80 and 100's share a different Delphi injector to the 65's

 

[chris_pett]

The injectors are the right ones and it starts and runs straight away now. No need for easy start at all, sounds like one of the injectors is over injecting or not closing at all.

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

Flame washers ? Did you put new ones on

 

[chris_pett]

Yeah replaced all the copper washers on the injectors

 

[chris_pett]

Gonna try a leak off test tomorrow and see what that brings up.

 

[chris_pett]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-6ROkxyL20&feature=youtube_gdata_player
​Any ideas?

 

[karol_SVK]

What I see is like two of your injectors are clogged.
How did the injectors look like when you changed the washers?
I assume the glow plug light comes on, does it?
You could try a code reader if it says combustion problems on some of the cylinders. Or simply disconnect always just one injector, always just one and listen what changes.
In the cycle of the cylinders, the problem is usually on the cylinder before the "louder" one, as that tries to catch up the loss of the wrong one and so gets more diesel.

How did you end on the leak off test?

 

[chris_pett]

They were slightly carbon upped and black when I changed 2 and 4 over. Yeah after a couple minutes of reading the coil light comes on and shows 2 combustion cylinder faults unsure on what the code number though. It sounds like 4 knocks when running and when unplugged it gets worse unlike the rest when there is no change to the noise or running.
On the leak of test three were equal but injector no2 had very little leak off.