send the beam off to the powder coaters... Get it media blasted and powdercoated your colour of choice then rebuild it all with new :up
arts
arts
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Clio Williams 2 - Restoration
- Thread starter rickyquicky
- Start date
massiveCoRbyn
ClioSport Club Member
Several
God I want a Williams/Valver. Plans for this sound very good.
Williams 2
Sorry it's been a while!
So the welder came to have a chat with me after i moaned about the patches at the end of the sills. Basically ended up talkin to him for hours and he invited me to his workshop the next day to see his work. He said on the sills its a stronger repair and showed where he had cut the metal out and his welds penetrate the whole way through the metal blah blah. The sills are in good condition so the less so im thinking the less i butcher them the better. As it is on the bottom of the sill the coatibg of stone chip paint will cover it too.
I was impressed with what he was showing me so i've decided to leave it how it is. He has offered to redo them 'flush' if i'm really unhappy though. Is it really worth it though?
Since last update i've fully dismantled the rear beam and had it all powdercoated, was hoping to find new rubber bushes for it but didn't have any luck there. Now the front subframe and rear set up are all done and ready to go back on. Took all the windows out and all the little bits that were still left on the car so it's a fully stripped shell now apart from the dashboard and windscreen.
I'm looking to start prepping and painting the engine bay and under body soon, so i can get the engine, suspension etc back in so its rolling. Nearly finished the refurb on my house so will have a lot more time soon.
Williams 2
send the beam off to the powder coaters... Get it media blasted and powdercoated your colour of choice then rebuild it all with new :up
Do yoy know where i can get any parts for the rear beam? Only really interested in the rubbers but will consider any parts available!
197 Cup
It's your choice. I know I couldn't leave it!
Strength wise it's fine, but if any dampness gets between the overlap from the inside, it will rust and cause it to swell.
If it's welded flush there's no where for it sit.
If you're going to leave them then try and blend them on the outside with filler and make sure you get plenty of waxoyl in once the car is painted.
I was only thinking of this when my boss asked me to patch the sills on his old caddy Mk2 van this morning!
Strength wise it's fine, but if any dampness gets between the overlap from the inside, it will rust and cause it to swell.
If it's welded flush there's no where for it sit.
If you're going to leave them then try and blend them on the outside with filler and make sure you get plenty of waxoyl in once the car is painted.
I was only thinking of this when my boss asked me to patch the sills on his old caddy Mk2 van this morning!
Coops Mk1
ClioSport Club Member
Lots of Scrap...
no way I would leave the sills as they are, it'd bug the hell out of me, not to mention devalue the car as first place anyone looks on the old clios is the sills! for a stock oem restoration i'd have to get that repair flushed!
great plans for the car though, should be lovely when done!
great plans for the car though, should be lovely when done!
RichValver
ClioSport Club Member
Clio 16v/172 daily
do you have pics of this? I need to strip mine down but not sure what it involves
RichValver
ClioSport Club Member
Clio 16v/172 daily
with the sills, if they can assure you it will look flush after the paint then I guess it's not gonna make any difference really
Williams 2
I said to him is it just going to be a low point for water to gather...he said the low point is the seam that runs the length of where the sill joins to the floor so he'd be more worried about that!
I do see his point and its nice welding, but got the doubt in my mind again now!
I was justifying the patch thinking its a decent job and is covered in stone chip guard. Especially as the sills are generally good anyway.
Hmmmmmm.........
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Williams 2
I've got a few pics whilst dismantling :up:
That might give you a bit of an idea...definately get a slide hammer and WD40! Nothing else to do apart from screw your slide hammer with (i think) m12 bolt into each end and knock them out.
My inner 2 were a b*stard to get out (thats why i took those pics) i used a club hammer to knock them in and then slide hanmer out to free them up.
RichValver
ClioSport Club Member
Clio 16v/172 daily
my torsion bars are nice and loose currently as I recently adjusted ride height and copper greesed them up do the mounting arms come off or did you send it like it is?
do the mounting arms come off or did you send it like it is?
197 Cup
I said to him is it just going to be a low point for water to gather...he said the low point is the seam that runs the length of where the sill joins to the floor so he'd be more worried about that!
I do see his point and its nice welding, but got the doubt in my mind again now!
I was justifying the patch thinking its a decent job and is covered in stone chip guard. Especially as the sills are generally good anyway.
Hmmmmmm.........
The bottom of the sill usually has open drains/breathers.
An overlap can allow moisture between it on the inside unless it can be welded both sides.
I wouldnt want you to go to all the trouble now to only have another problem in the future.
I don't know the types of cars he's doing and structurally it's good but it's a big no for me!
If you get enough waxoyl into it you might be ok but Stonechip won't hide it on it's own.
I understand it's a big pain in the ass but if he'd have done it right the first time it wouldn't be an issue.
Can you get to it from the inside?
Williams 2
No the arms are pressed on with the rubber bushing. If i could have got the rubbers i would have taken them all apart.
I prepped around the arms where they meet the beam so they didnt need to sand blast near the rubber (gaffer taped the rubber too)
Came out nice ill get pics soon next time im in the garage! Had them both done 30% gloss so a nice satin black. Will put stone chip guard on the underside once they are fitted too.
Williams 2
So the consencus is get them redone flush.
Gonna have to go with that then i think! It does annoy spending all that money and it's not perfect.
He showed me cars he was restoring in his workshop - all the body repairs were flush but chassis' were all patches like mine. Spent £1100 on the welding i'm sure he will work something out with me that's fair to improve them.
Not a massive spanner in the works as have plenty to get on with anyway. Need to source loads of little odds and sods parts which will take long enough!
Gonna have to go with that then i think! It does annoy spending all that money and it's not perfect.
He showed me cars he was restoring in his workshop - all the body repairs were flush but chassis' were all patches like mine. Spent £1100 on the welding i'm sure he will work something out with me that's fair to improve them.
Not a massive spanner in the works as have plenty to get on with anyway. Need to source loads of little odds and sods parts which will take long enough!
RichValver
ClioSport Club Member
Clio 16v/172 daily
please do, more pics the better. I had my 172 beam blasted and zinc coated then powder coated. I can't see any defects with it yet so think I will get the same done to the mk1 beam. Will the heat not effect the rubber bushes when put in the oven though?
Williams 2
Yeah it looks a lot better but definately spray some graviguard or similar stone chip paint to stop the powdercoat chipping.
I spoke to the powdercoater about the baking and the rubber before i dropped them off. They done a long low temperature bake and they come out fine. Friendly powdercoater though as they do all the architectural and structural steel for my work.
RichValver
ClioSport Club Member
Clio 16v/172 daily
ok mate, il speak to the place I used before and see what they say about the bushes
Thanks
BTW this thread needs more pics from you
197 Cup
@rickyquicky
At the end of the day, if you finish the car without doing them then it'll always be on your mind.
If it's right you'll have no worries!
At the end of the day, if you finish the car without doing them then it'll always be on your mind.
If it's right you'll have no worries!
Williams 2
So a tiny update on the worlds slowest restoration/rebuild....
Managed to source some new OE suspension parts, 2x front dampers, 2 springs, pair of wishbones, rear dampers and a couple of minor bits and bobs (aerial mount, oil filter etc).
All subframe, suspension, transmission, brake parts are now either new, refurbished, or stripped/powdercoated so thats a set of jobs out of the way.
Next jobs are to sort those patches on the sills, and decide what to do with engine.
Debating whether to keep it standard and get it rebuilt, or do some tuning eg cams etc whilst its out of the car. Split between keeping it standard, or slight tuning to bring it up to modern standards around 170-180bhp.
Managed to source some new OE suspension parts, 2x front dampers, 2 springs, pair of wishbones, rear dampers and a couple of minor bits and bobs (aerial mount, oil filter etc).
All subframe, suspension, transmission, brake parts are now either new, refurbished, or stripped/powdercoated so thats a set of jobs out of the way.
Next jobs are to sort those patches on the sills, and decide what to do with engine.
Debating whether to keep it standard and get it rebuilt, or do some tuning eg cams etc whilst its out of the car. Split between keeping it standard, or slight tuning to bring it up to modern standards around 170-180bhp.
Attachments
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Williams 2
Williams 2
Wish me luck finding an original, new or good condition williams carpet!
Williams 2
Big patch worn away on the back footrest part behind drivers side for some reason. Looks like something was spilt on it, possibly cellulose thinners.
Attachments
Williams 2
Would be massively appreciated!
If you do find it don’t worry about cleaning it, if it’s in one piece and all the carpet pile is there that would be perfect.
Good soak in cleaner and a pressure washer will see to the dirt :blush:
Williams 2
Haha hopefully it is treasure you find!
Williams 2
Just put the parts away and sorting the older parts that have been replaced. Compared a few side by side and noticed the rear dampers look different.
On closer inspection they also have a different part number - new are 01 025 828. Old dampers are branded de Carbon and are part number 01 025 893.
The old ones feel noticeably stiffer too?
On closer inspection they also have a different part number - new are 01 025 828. Old dampers are branded de Carbon and are part number 01 025 893.
The old ones feel noticeably stiffer too?
Attachments
Williams 2
Rich i had been meaning to post some pics of the subframe and beam when i got the chance...
Williams 2
Subframe and beam above done with a 3 stage powdercoat so they blast, zinc coat, prime then powdercoat. Should last for years. Coat of stone chip protector afterwards out of a can as powdercoat can chip quite badly.
At the moment i’ve got a load of small brackets i’ve been playing about with using phosphoric acid:
Phosphoric acid does a really good job of cleaning the parts up. Not too aggresive either so you can leave it to work for a few hours without worrying about your parts dissolving! (Happened to my airbox clips) Not sure how to finish the brackets off, might just give them all to the powdercoater or might do a 2 pack paint.
Rest of the little bits to de-rust and paint:
The spare wheel carrier is in a sorry state, its solid but heavily pitted. May spray it so can do a thick primer coat to smooth it all out.
At the moment i’ve got a load of small brackets i’ve been playing about with using phosphoric acid:
Phosphoric acid does a really good job of cleaning the parts up. Not too aggresive either so you can leave it to work for a few hours without worrying about your parts dissolving! (Happened to my airbox clips) Not sure how to finish the brackets off, might just give them all to the powdercoater or might do a 2 pack paint.
Rest of the little bits to de-rust and paint:
The spare wheel carrier is in a sorry state, its solid but heavily pitted. May spray it so can do a thick primer coat to smooth it all out.
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RichValver
ClioSport Club Member
Clio 16v/172 daily
beam and subframe look wicked!
Williams 2
So thought i'd better give this an update so it's not another forgotten half-finished restoration...
Had to park the restoration up for a bit (again) as we moved house and had to finish the renovation on the old house and start the work on the new one. Had the car for years so it's not been an issue for me to finish it by a given time, I just work on it whenever I get the spare time.
So last year I got back into it and sent it in to the bodyshop for the welding that i was previously a bit unhappy with to be redone, respray the outside, engine bay and under the car, then undersealed. Got it back in July:
Had to park the restoration up for a bit (again) as we moved house and had to finish the renovation on the old house and start the work on the new one. Had the car for years so it's not been an issue for me to finish it by a given time, I just work on it whenever I get the spare time.
So last year I got back into it and sent it in to the bodyshop for the welding that i was previously a bit unhappy with to be redone, respray the outside, engine bay and under the car, then undersealed. Got it back in July:
Williams 2
Since getting it back last year it had to be parked up again in the garage and i'm now back on it with the aim of at least getting it back on it's wheels by the summer, as the garage is going to need demolishing soon for an extension and i can't do it whilst the car is like this.
Managed to get hold of some good bits in the meantime - roof gutter trims, carpet, window scrapers and loads of new clips/brackets/screws.
Already had the subframe powdercoated, and the rear beam refurbed with new bushes, bought new dampers, springs, wishbones, hubs etc so i've nearly got everything needed to complete. Took all the little brackets and bits to the powdercoaters and they will be ready to collect soon.
All i need to do now is source a few of the front window rubbers/seals, find a good quality set of Williams stickers (any recommendations?) and new fixings for the rear windows (those round black metal bits) and i've got everything needed to finish. Was very happy to find the complete service and MOT history for it in my jumble of paperwork as i thought i had lost it all.
When it's finished it will be driven and enjoyed so i'm not going for a 'concours' restoration, it's done 92,000 miles so happy to keep adding to it, just debating whether to keep it standard or possibly bring it a little closer to modern standards with some light tuning.
Massive issue atm is that 2 house moves on from stripping down, a lot of the labelled bags of nuts and bolts have split open, and the marker used to label has completely worn on a few so got a bit of work to sort out what goes where. Also could do with a bit of help on the reinstallation sequence on the rear for the fuel tanks rear beam, brake lines, spare wheel carrier etc.
Will post a few more pics of current state later...
Managed to get hold of some good bits in the meantime - roof gutter trims, carpet, window scrapers and loads of new clips/brackets/screws.
Already had the subframe powdercoated, and the rear beam refurbed with new bushes, bought new dampers, springs, wishbones, hubs etc so i've nearly got everything needed to complete. Took all the little brackets and bits to the powdercoaters and they will be ready to collect soon.
All i need to do now is source a few of the front window rubbers/seals, find a good quality set of Williams stickers (any recommendations?) and new fixings for the rear windows (those round black metal bits) and i've got everything needed to finish. Was very happy to find the complete service and MOT history for it in my jumble of paperwork as i thought i had lost it all.
When it's finished it will be driven and enjoyed so i'm not going for a 'concours' restoration, it's done 92,000 miles so happy to keep adding to it, just debating whether to keep it standard or possibly bring it a little closer to modern standards with some light tuning.
Massive issue atm is that 2 house moves on from stripping down, a lot of the labelled bags of nuts and bolts have split open, and the marker used to label has completely worn on a few so got a bit of work to sort out what goes where. Also could do with a bit of help on the reinstallation sequence on the rear for the fuel tanks rear beam, brake lines, spare wheel carrier etc.
Will post a few more pics of current state later...
197 Cup
Be good to see this done. Doing a 5 Gt turbo for someone at the moment needs a bit of welding. Lots of wiring to tidy up.
Attachments
16v_paddy
ClioSport Club Member
Valvers & 172 Cup
You need to get in touch with this guy on Facebook, he sells the bits you're after https://www.facebook.com/SpecialistaRetro/
Williams 2
I need the Williams badges but his ones are £90, have seen others closer to £15 on ebay that look good enough.
Are they really worth the extra? Anyone bought Williams stickers from either seller?
16v_paddy
ClioSport Club Member
Valvers & 172 Cup
I've bought from both, the ebay ones are junk in comparison
Williams 2
Thanks for the link paddy, i’ll get the better ones ordered up then if there is a difference.
Just had to order a pair of new plastic williams kickplates as they were removed for the respray…£240
Just had to order a pair of new plastic williams kickplates as they were removed for the respray…£240
16v_paddy
ClioSport Club Member
Valvers & 172 Cup
Thanks for the link paddy, i’ll get the better ones ordered up then if there is a difference.
Just had to order a pair of new plastic williams kickplates as they were removed for the respray…£240
That's not too bad tbh, they were £140 each last time I looked
