Clutch pedal heavy? Trialing something I made

[Paulie031]

Evening folks, when I first bought my clio I noticed how heavy the pedal was. Looking online it seemed the norm, so a made some parts (Nov 2019) then winter, covid etc. Just didn't get around to getting any further with it.

Roll on to last week and using the clio more now for back and forth to work decided to crack on and fit the parts.

The result is the pedal is much lighter, had to fiddle around with the spring as had to modify it.

 

[Daniel]

That’s amazing! You could sell them!

 

[Paulie031]

Cheers, I want to do some proper R & D on it first because... well that's just me lol

 

[Clio_fool]

Helper spring? Clever idea and very well executed. I'm sure you could flog a few of those.

 

[Paulie031]

Yeah basically a helper spring, had the idea from a land rover of all things. Although that's on the pedal itself, didn't fancy doing down that road.

 

[DomP182]

I like this a lot, I don't drive my 172 much at all so when I do the clutch comes as a bit of a surprise. This would make it much more pleasant in traffic

 

[Coops Mk1]

Nice idea, however I like my misshapen left leg created from 18k miles a year for a decade in my 182 daily

Any 'normal' car I drive I basically stick my foot along with the pedal straight through the bulk head

 

[Brigsy]

Stock clutch only becomes heavy with age and mileage, probably needs changing if your finding it heavy. Id be concerned at adding extra load onto the release bearing with the tension.

 

[Louis]

I like the idea but I'd worry about the clutch sticking in whilst driving hard

 

[Coops Mk1]

Stock clutch only becomes heavy with age and mileage, probably needs changing if your finding it heavy. Id be concerned at adding extra load onto the release bearing with the tension.

Stop skipping leg day and you'll be fine babe

 

[Brigsy]

Stop skipping leg day and you'll be fine babe

Gt turbo clutch is a like a 100kg leg press compared to 172

 

[Coops Mk1]

Gt turbo clutch is a like a 100kg leg press compared to 172

Same as the MK1's on stock arm. Then fit the Volvo turbo clutch and totally blow your knee out

 

[Paulie031]

Stock clutch only becomes heavy with age and mileage, probably needs changing if your finding it heavy. Id be concerned at adding extra load onto the release bearing with the tension.

There's no extra tension on the release bearing when the clutch is up. The arm is in the same position as when there's no spring tension on it.

I like the idea but I'd worry about the clutch sticking in whilst driving hard

The spring is under most tension when the pedal is up, if the spring broke it would just be a heavier clutch again.

 

[Louis]

There's no extra tension on the release bearing when the clutch is up. The arm is in the same position as when there's no spring tension on it.

The spring is under most tension when the pedal is up, if the spring broke it would just be a heavier clutch again.

I'm not saying about the spring breaking, im saying about the spring jamming.

 

[Paulie031]

Shouldn't be anything there to jam it tbh, it's very clear of the air box.

 

[DomP182]

Stock clutch only becomes heavy with age and mileage, probably needs changing if your finding it heavy. Id be concerned at adding extra load onto the release bearing with the tension.

There's a few interesting whines that come from my leaky box to be fair, it's not overly heavy just that my Trafic is super light on the clutch

 

[Brigsy]

Theres got to be more tension on the release bearing with it pulling on the arm, unless the spring is very weak, which would essentially do nothing.

 

[Jonnio]

Nice!

Yeah basically a helper spring, had the idea from a land rover of all things. Although that's on the pedal itself, didn't fancy doing down that road.

Hilux has one on the pedal too.

"What the hell is this massive broken spring in the footwell."




"oh"

 

[Paulie031]

Theres got to be more tension on the release bearing with it pulling on the arm, unless the spring is very weak, which would essentially do nothing.

All your doing is taking away some of the force from the clutch pedal when you press it. It's not like your dragging your foot on the clutch.

 

[dann2707]

Yeah I can't see that being a problem at all, it's like how the vacuum system works in the brakes. The applied vac doesn't adversely press the brakes only until you press the brakes and that's when it assists you.

 

[Brigsy]

Its a bit of a band aid though as ultimately clutch is worn causing it to be heavy, which eventually can cause other issues. Its not going to be as bad as foot sat on clutch agreed but its not the correct way to fix it.

 

[Paulie031]

Its a bit of a band aid though as ultimately clutch is worn causing it to be heavy, which eventually can cause other issues. Its not going to be as bad as foot sat on clutch agreed but its not the correct way to fix it.

The clutch is around 4 years old and done around 10,000 miles. I think you find numerous threads on people changing clutches which are initially light but then go heavy.

So what's your correct way of doing it?

 

[dann2707]

I've driven countless 182's and they have all had a heavy clutch but then again I am a weakling 😂

 

[Brigsy]

I put a new clutch in all of mine to be fair. Mine was on the original clutch so it was causing gear selection issues which would have eventually knackered the gearbox even though the biting point seemed reasonable. Sold with no issues after 10-15k miles still light. Same with both diesels, the clutch was ridiculous and have changed both for new which made a massive difference, and still both ok 40,000 later.

I cant see it being super stiff after 10k miles, was it oem renault or aftermarket valeo?

 

[Paulie031]

I'd have to check the paperwork tbh, I didn't say it was super stiff either only that it was heavy. I'm Comparing it to more modern cars.

It seems you just want to run my idea down, but reply in a manner which makes you look like your trying to offer a different solution, Anyway good luck with your light clutch.

 

[Brigsy]

Fair dos mate i get where your coming from. In your circumstances if you just want to ease the pedal off a bit then yeah itll make a difference as its a newish clutch.

The ones that ive drove when well worn are stiff as f**k, 70-100k miles. Nothing is fixing that apart from renewal in my experience sadly.

 

[Louis]

I'd have to check the paperwork tbh, I didn't say it was super stiff either only that it was heavy. I'm Comparing it to more modern cars.

It seems you just want to run my idea down, but reply in a manner which makes you look like your trying to offer a different solution, Anyway good luck with your light clutch.

No-one is running an idea down.

 

[dann2707]

Agreed, no one is running it down at all.

For a product to be good every single part of it needs to be analysed. Sometimes this can be seen as being negative and shooting it down when I'm actual fact it's the opposite.

 

[Clio_fool]

My clutch was heavy but never had any problem with how it worked. Was a pain if in atraggic jam for a while. I only fitted a new one because I had the gearbox off and yeah now it's noticeably lighter but I could have happily carried on with the old one. A little assiatance wouldn't have hurt.

 

[Louis]

If you were able to make a bracket/spring combo that you could put over the clutch line itself you'd be onto a winner.

The line would act as a spring guide reducing the chance of it snagging leaving an 'open' clutch whilst also looking oem. You'd have to make sure the line could still clip in but this is easily done.

Line easily disconnects from the brackets.

 

[Paulie031]

Okay so to recap, a few like the Idea some don't. Initially it was the spring is putting more tension on the release bearing which had me fathomed and questioning wether said person really knew what he was on about.

After explaining its only replacing some of the force of pressing the clutch pedal we then go down another avenue of the correct way of doing it. Again I asked him the correct way as it looked like this is what he was looking to be asked, he could have easily mentioned it in the previous posts.

I could have bet my car on him having a light clutch and question what make my clutch was in another post, if you can't see that guys you must be very naive. As the old saying goes " don't piss on my back and tell me it's raining".

 

[Brigsy]

Apologies i didnt realise this would cause so much aggro

Assumed it was an old high mileage stiff clutch at the end of its lifespan needing a heavy spring for assistance - loading up the release bearing and removing the free play at the end of the pedal when not pressed, on the plastic cased oem release bearing which is not that strong in my opinion. No idea if continuous pressure running release bearing against pressure plate forks would cause premature wear.

Another option for lighter clutch is extend the clutch arm a little, 20mm more or so if room available. This should be fairly simple to drill and bolt on a piece for testing in situ with an angled drill.

We used to run the clio 172 standard length arms on the gtturbo for similar results back in the day, the extension making a very light clutch. Downside is moving the pivot may put a little bit more stress on the casing on the gearbox. On the plus side the release bearing will not be loaded up and have the correct free play when not engaged.

 

[Adey.]

The cable can be stiff in the sleeve, the pivot bar (above the pedal) in my experience goes rusty/dry causes a stiff pedal too and is very much overlooked or they can be worn out with age/wear, these are the issues I have seen with overly stiff/heavy 172 clutches. Drove one last week ( I don't own one anymore) and cant say I thought it was heavy at all.

 

[Brigsy]

Dried up grease on the input shaft on the gearbox covered in clutch dust can also cause similar stiff clutch as release bearing is hard to slide down it. Infact the last 2 i done suffered from this. Also the sleeve wears on the input shaft causing the surface to be rough and does not help matters. Always go in dry on the splines to avoid this. So in the other respect, the new clutch could have been incorrectly installed.

Also aftermarket vs oem can be quite different in operation/spring tension on pressure plate.

Thats my side on it. I hope ive added something to think about in the discussion?

 

[jameswrx]

Interesting finding a solution but to be fair to brigsy he’s right in that clutches themselves stiffen up over time.

My old 172 on its original clutch was really heavy, I was always told that’s how they are. I drove a 182 and again it was heavy (heavier than mine in fact). Since I’ve bought a new 172 with a recent clutch change it’s way lighter than others and I don’t notice jumping between it and my other cars like I really used to with my old 172.

I work in a garage and although there’s not many cable clutch cars these days there’s a few we do see though and done plenty of heavy clutches on them. Owners are always amazed at the difference. I drove an old ladies’ car the other day (think it was a small Hyundai) and the clutch was crazy heavy, I’m amazed she could even press it.

Old cable clutches on similar to 172 era VAG cars get so heavy the metal brackets that hold the cables snap.

Part of the issue is the hydraulic clutches mask the clutch cover stiffness but then that’s why the slave cylinders pop.

 

[bikemanpt]

Evening folks, when I first bought my clio I noticed how heavy the pedal was. Looking online it seemed the norm, so a made some parts (Nov 2019) then winter, covid etc. Just didn't get around to getting any further with it.

Roll on to last week and using the clio more now for back and forth to work decided to crack on and fit the parts.

The result is the pedal is much lighter, had to fiddle around with the spring as had to modify it.

Love it.
Simple and no drawbacks. It would be very very bad luck to jam something if it brokes, and even that very unlucky situation, can be mitigated by sleving the spring.
I will look to try this.

 

[Martin_172]

a cable clutch will always be heavier than a hydraulic clutch, that's why hydraulic clutches exist.

a 172/182 with a new clutch and new cable is absolutely fine to drive, and its once they get into their life cycle they get heavy and creaky.

I'm not sure why you posted this here if your not willing to take some feedback?

Initially it was the spring is putting more tension on the release bearing which had me fathomed and questioning wether said person really knew what he was on about.

That was my concern too, as surely it can only either 1. Put extra load on the clutch release bearing or 2. make no difference when the pedal is pressed. Surely one is a consequence of the other?

 

[bikemanpt]

Why would it put extra load? The force made by spring is subtracted from the force made by the leg. The force needed to actuate the clutch is constant.

 

[loggyboy]

Isnt that effectively going to ride the clutch? Looks like a recipe for premature clutch wear to me.

 

[SharpyClio]

Isnt that effectively going to ride the clutch? Looks like a recipe for premature clutch wear to me.

This is something that I was wondering, is it lightly pulling the clutch in? I like the concept.