Considering a 172/182

[Probein]

Hello there!

Currently I drive an Impreza WRX PPP, which after a year of ownership is really starting to cost me too much. Sadly I'm now considering chopping him in as I'm due to move and really can't keep up with the petrol bills.

So, I'm now seriously considering a 172/182. I had a ride in a friends 182 a while ago and, while not as quick as the scoob, it certainly felt quick enough to be fun.

My questions are as follows:

1) A 172 cup is faster than a 182 cup, right? Why? And why are they *so* much cheaper to buy? Why doesn't everyone just go for a 172?

2) How much would you say running costs on both a 172 and 182 are? Currently I drive around 100 miles per week for work.

3) What exactly is the difference between a 'cup' and a standard clio?

4) Is there anything I should look out for when looking at 172/182s? Any common problems etc?

I think that's about it for now! Thanks in advance!

 

[172cupwizard]

The Clio Renaultsport 172 is no stranger to performance fans. But if you’ve got motorsport in your blood, it’s the new 172 Cup that will really set your pulse racing. With 89kg shaved off its weight, the new Clio will hit 62mph in just 6.8 seconds. Its suspension has been re-tuned for sharper handling, too, with wider track and a lower ride height. And best of all, a list price of £12,995 means it’ll cost you £2100 less than the standard 172.

Weight savings were achieved by losing the spare wheel, air-con, ABS, side airbags, under-seat storage trays and xenon headlamps, and by minimising sound deadening. To compensate for the loss of ABS, the braking system has been redesigned with less power-assistance for easier heeling and toeing.



Renault says the vehicle was developed with an eye to track day or Group N rally use. That doesn’t mean they’ve neglected to fill it with styling tweaks to make it look the part, however – as well as enlarged spoilers and 16-inch Speedline alloys, you get special cloth upholstery which ‘ensures excellent support in sporting driving conditions.’ Looks like the silly season’s not over quite yet. Service intervals mimic the standard 172’s, at 12,000 miles or two years – though if you’re going to be thrashing it sideways round a racetrack every other weekend, you can safely assume it’ll want looking at a bit more regularly than that.

Hope this helps mate

 

[Justin]

1) 172 cups are considered the quickest, but there is hardly anything in between any of them tbh, i think i'd rather have a clio 172/182 with the xenons and leather now.. Insurance is more on a cup

2) Both are the same, servicing is about £140 for a normal one, 34mpg easy, bit less if you really drive hard. tyres are £100 each

3) Standard clio comes with Xenons, leather and alacantra seats, and climate control. Cups dont, although the 182 cups did have aircon and ABS. Ideally get a 'normal' one with cup packs.

4) Worn gearstick and steeing wheel are common. I'm sure someone else will point out a few more

HTH

 

[FlameR]

1) Hardly. All 172/182s are pretty much the same in terms of 0-60 and 0-1**. The 172 cup is seen by most as the best cup you can buy. It's cheap, has better suspension than a standard FF (full fat..i.e. leather, xenon lights, climate control, cruise control etc) and is also lighter as it has less stuff. The mk2 ph1 172 is mean't to be the fastest by like 0.01 of a second, so the gimps on here that own them, refer to them as ph-quick. lol

2) 100 miles a week? Jeez I wish I only did that many. That will cost you about 20-25 quid with mixed driving I reckon.

3) a cup is the lighter edition with less toys and less weight in comparison to the normal 172 and 182. It has the same seats as a dynamique IIRC. It doesn't have air con. They also have a different spoiler, speedline turini wheels, different suspension and a front plastic splitter. (the spoiler, suspension and splitter are available on 182's and are known as cup packs). The 172 cup only comes in mondial blue and silver (silver ones are rare)

4) check the belts have been changed. if it's a 172 check the exhaust isn't corroded, mine fell off not long after purchase.

 

[Jay Payne]

ph1 = original and best

 

[mark_182_54]

^^^^^^^^^^^^ oh shut up

 

[Rich_16v]

The info below tells you all the differences between the models:

Clio 2.0 History

Phase 1 172

The first Mk2 2.0 liter cars were on a 2000 W plate there aren’t many though many were demonstration or car used as journalists test cars.

The Spec was as below

F4R 730 engine although there are some cars with a different code number (they are all the same power wise and there all F4R in the 172/182 range)
172 DIN HP (which is different than a UK HP, in UK HP it would be 166.6) throttle by wire cable engine
Sports body kit
ABS
Normal headlights (Zeons were never fitted even to foreign cars aftermarket kits are available though
They came in
Yellow (very rare)
Black (again quite rare)
Odyssey Blue
Mars red
Two shades of silver Titanian and icebear silver
No normal cars were ever made in green (see below),
Some cars have aluminium bonnet leading to the cars weight a few Kg's less.

Exclusive

At the end of the production run there was a special edition car made call the Exclusive there were only 172 made all sold in the Uk. The different features were as follows
Different alloys (multispoke)
Metallic green paint (this should be the giveaway since the normal cars never came in green)
Grey full leather interier.
Plaque in the car showing its number in the series. The rumours of extra cars having been made are false

Phase 2 172

The phase 2 cars first came out on a Y plate many were dealership or test cars on this plate though.

Differences were the use of the phase 2 body shell, interior etc also engine was changed to a drive by electric cable type (engine code F7R 732). Later versions of the engine used the turbo head casting which isn't as good but the engine code and power output officially didn't chnage. UCH computer to control all the cars electrics was also added and the gearbox was also changed. Reduced gearbox ratios were used to help keep the 0-60 speeds etc the same since the phase 2 172 weighted a fair bit more but had no more hp.

Also the front suspension was change different redesigned driveshafts etc were used but the spec is similar. (see here for the details of spec changes????????????????????????????????)

The CD changer was changed to an optional for £300 then added as stock spec then later removed again (when crusie became stock spec). In the phase 1 it was standard. Most people took this option up but if they didn't the CD changer cable won't be there if it is there then the last owner has taken the changer out but not the wire. However the wire is £86 from Renault and they are the only stockist.

About mid 2001 though the gearbox was changed the speedo sensor was removed and the speedo input comes from the ABS system. The ratios remained the same.

On about mid 2003 models ESP was added. On later cars a button apeeared to turn it off it appears on the drivers ride hand side near the traction control button. It can be switched off and if it is a little triangle appears on the dashboard with a car sliding about inside it. If its left switched on (it always defaults to being on) if it is operating then the triangular light with a picture of a car sliding about appears. Some people like the system others don't. For track work most people switch it off. Some switch it off all the time.

On later 2003 models also cruise control and speed limiter was added. Its easy to tell if a car has it as there the extra buttons on the steering wheel itself.

Also clear side repeaters were put into production about 2003. (from orange)

There were foreign special edition cars made notiable the PS2 version although I've no more information on spec so its unlikly to be any serious changes.

At about 53 plate a cost saving measure to remove the door locks was done. SInce the cars are French and legally you only need one lock on the doors they remove there passenger side door. In the Uk we had to live with the fact we drive on the other side of the road they weren't going to go make cars with locks missing on our drivers side.

The cars came in unique colours only seen on the RS Clios.
Flame red paint code B76
Monaco blue paint code 432 pearlescent
Iceburg silver paint code 640 metalic
Pearl black paint code 676 pearlescent

Options on it were
Sat nav
CD changer
Telephone preparation.

The wheel style is known as Alyum
Interier is known as Dark Grey Perforated Leather / Alcantara TC3

Cup

A special edition 172 was made called the Cup. It had nothing to do with homogenisation etc as many people think it did it was a cheaper version of the 172.

Item removed include
Xenons (normal lights were installed)
Climate control (Climate control was an option on later Cups but originally it was removed and most Cups don't have it)
Lumber adjustable leather seats were removed. Normal Cloth seats were installed instead
Front head rests were chnaged from the Coma style to fixed tilt ones.
Rear 60/40 split rear bench was removed instead a fixed one piece cloth was used. No rear headrests were installed and the middle full rear belt was used instead of the full spec normal one.
The aultomatic lights and wiper were also removed
The spare wwheel was removed and a can of tyre foam was instead used.
The front side windows and windscreen were thinned and ligthen the heat resistant and UV protection was removed??????????????????????????????. This does mean that they can crack easier and many people when there replaced have them replaced with normal ones as most garages don't realise the Cup had a different spec windscreen.
Engine cover was removed.
Some soundproofing was removed
The side airbags were removed in the seats
The ABS system was removed a brake pressure valve ensure the rear brakes don't skid brake the carr to hard resultting in a skid. This is often an MOT failure however the DVLA have issued a technical note (?????????????????????????????????) to make testers aware that the Cup is unique.

All Cups are missing the drivers side door lock (for info see above none in phase 2 info).

Ligthening knocked apparently 89kg but figures are unclear as real life seems to disagree.

A lower spec interior was used (known as Mossa Dark Cloth).

The plastic surround on the speedo dials is also in mondail blue unlike the normal 172 which is painted silver.

The wheels were changed for turini ones with a different offset (38.5 vs 48 for the normal phase 2 and 43 for the phase 1) The wheels are lighter than standard ones. Also fitted to the Cups were a different rear spoiler and front splitter.

The Cups suspension was also changed new strenghtened hubs were used since the wheels were of a bigger offset plus more camber was used Also spring and damper rates were reworked with harder lb springs being used . Toe in etc was changed but see here for more details.??????????????????????. The car should be 3 mm lower due to camber changes than a full fat but tolerances arn't that tight so 3mm has no effect. The track was widened due to the wider offset wheels and the adjustment of the camber on the car.

Early Cups only came only in mondial blue (code D43) later ones had the option of silver and air con was an option but finding a Cup with aircon or in silver isn't easy.

The Cups came with different auxiliary belts though the setup was much simplified and a new alternator.

Since the Cup doesn't have ABS the gearbox was changed to a JC5 130 gearbox this was only different in that it had a speedo sensor in it. This was used to give the car its speed signal. This is therefore a problem wwith the Cups that gearbox are more difficult to get hold of since normal 172 phase 2 boxes (whilst still fitting) don't have the speedo output so the speedo doenst work.

The Cup was sold in small number on the continent as the Raigngatti (famous French Renault racing driver) although they were all LHD and had a bit more weight removed as they had no rear windscreen wiper.

There were some Cups sold from a few dealers with a LAD tunning package fitted. This gave a claimed 200hp and warrently cover (where Renault cover was removed due to the modifications) for the modified parts.

Cups did come with some little badges on the drivers door they can fall of though and bought seperate from Renault dealers

Also clear side repeaters were put into production about 2003. (from orange)


182

In 2004 though (most 53 plate 182 is likely to be a demo car for a dealership) the 182 was produced. Changes weren't that large though.
New front suspension drive shafts hubs dampers springs were made
Rear suspension was changed
Leather seats spec was changed
The rear spare wheel well panel was deleted and replaced with a flat panel.
The new 182 exhausts with its V6 style rear pipes. The exhaust take up the space where the old wheel space was.
The intake manifold was chnaged it reputed to be better for moddification power but changes to it arn't huge.
The exhaust manifold is a 4-2-1 type designed. It can be made to fit a 172 but you need to make an exhaust cat to fit it.
The cat was also changed from a 400 cell to a 200 cell one. The exhaust is as mentioned earlier the V6 style one. Also the engine mapping was changed. The air filter was changed but thats more IMO down to cost than power demands.

Also changed was the gearbox for a longer ratio one (longer than the phase 1 original) also common failing week parts of the box ie the circlips were changed for stronger parts.

Options on the 182 included Cup suspension and splitter packs. The suspension pack lowered the car a few mm made the dampers, springs and shocks a bit harder also the wheels come in a darker colour. Included in the Cup suspension pack was different hubs which have 60mm hub bolt spacing they are also up rated as they run about 1 degree more camber vs none Cup packed cars. The spoiler pack put a bigger rear spoiler and a splitter on the lower front of the car. The front Splitter can sometimes be found missing as they have on occasion not been fitted from now or can damage due to there design. Most cars came fitted with the suspension and spoiler packs though.
Other options were

Paint colour choices were Blue (two shades of Blue were availiable, artic and racing ) , Black gold and Titanium

If you ordered you car in racing blue you could also have the competition strips added to the car.

Telephone preparation

6 CD Multi-changer (fitted under the passenger seat or if you had sat nav its fitted in the boot).

Sat nav (although this was removed from the options list due to lack of demand. If you did pick the sat nav then you couldn't have the Cup spoiler pack as the aerial caught against the rear spoiler. Some people did have it fitted though as whilst it catches and bends the aerial its not impossible.

ID paint this was an expensive option. You could have it in liquid yellow or petrol blue (there very few of the petrol blue ones though)

Recaro seat pack - Ambla/dinamica black front + Graphic charcoal rear seat (no leather on rear seats if you picked the Reacaro seats (this Recaro seats was only an option on later cars)



182 Cup

A few month a new version called the 182 Cup was made this was basically a 182 with both Cup packs but with the cheaper specification interior no Zeonons or Climate control (aircon instead).

Options on the Cup were
Blue paint
Inferno colour paint.

If blue paint was specified then you could have the competition strips added to the car.

Recaro seat pack - Ambla/dinamica black front + Graphic charcoal rear seat (no leather on rear seats if you picked the Reacaro seats (this Recaro seats was only an option on later cars)


Trophy

The last of the production models was the Trophy. It was produced using the 182 Cup body but the dampers were changed for Sach's remote dampers at the front and Sachs (none seperate reserviored) at the rear. Springs at the front were changed and suspension camber etc is changed. Also wheels were changed for turini style alloys

All trophys came as standard with the Recaro Seat package an the Clio V6 phase 2 rear spolier.

They also only came in there unique red colour. They have serial number on the drivers seat (only 500 were ever made there one prototype trophy what has been sold so arguable there 501 been sold. Also there's 50 swiss registered cars.).

 

[Englebert]

I would only consider a 172 Cup or 182 Trophy personally.

 

[tom_dot_COM]

ph1 = original and best

+1
scientific fact there
and there the cheapest, what more would you want

 

[Probein]

Awesome, some great information here, thanks guys. Just one thing, from what I've read I'm under the impression that most cups aren't equipped with air con? Is it really hard/more expensive to find one with air con? Also, am I right in thinking phase 1 is basically the old shape clio, and phase 2 is the new shape? Cheers!

 

[Jay Payne]

phase 1 looks like this

phase2 looks like this

Both Mk2 clio's. The mk1 has the bonnet opening the other way

 

[Rich_16v]

Some of the late Cups came with aircon 53 plates and 04 plates very few 04 plates around though

Cups are often slightly more expensive due to the lack of ABS which means loads have been written off

 

[Englebert]

I'd say more Cups have air con, don't they? Also, they only came in Mondial Blue or Iceberg Silver. Mondial was unique to the Cup, silver is rare on the Cup but very common with normal 172s

 

[Lagerlout]

No. Was only offered late in the run as a cost option. Not real Cups imho.

There were 2,392 cups built for this country, 139 of which were fitted with Climate Control.

90 of them were in Iceburg Silver of which 33 had Climate Control.

There are more Mondial Blue Cups on our roads than there are Iceburg Silver 172's.

 

[moggy]

wow, will print that out...........

 

[cg172]

Arite mate. We just took the plunge and bought our 172, stepping up from our old 1.2 16v. I guess for us, as an upgrade, it's awesome. Not sure how you'd find it after the Scoob, but I think it'd be more exploitable on a back road... As for running costs, we get an *indicated* 40mpg from ours over a week, which is over about 250 miles/week - mailnly dull motorway driving but with a fair few "fun" moments. Get a black one and debadge it, then go stealth! So much fun. You know you wanna...

 

[Probein]

Thanks again for the replies guys.

Another question if I may.. I've noticed lots of talk about 'both cup packs fitted' to 182s.. Is there a difference between cars that say 'both cup packs fitted' and cars that have cup in the title? ie: clio 182 cup?

Also, are the 'cup packs' something that can be fitted after purchase? Or can they only be fitted from factory?

 

[moggy]

Thanks again for the replies guys.

Another question if I may.. I've noticed lots of talk about 'both cup packs fitted' to 182s.. Is there a difference between cars that say 'both cup packs fitted' and cars that have cup in the title? ie: clio 182 cup?

Also, are the 'cup packs' something that can be fitted after purchase? Or can they only be fitted from factory?

I was going to buy a 182 cup, in the racing blue, but ended up with a 182 with full cup packs...
when looking at them difference seemed...
182 cup more stripped out, to make it lighter, all the cup's i looked at had cloth seats, & no leather / suede like the 182 with full cup packs / steering suspension more uprated on 182 cups.

If correct a 182 with cup pack = larger tailgate spoiler, anthracite colour wheels, splitter on front bumper, suspension uprated 3mm lower
& top engine cover...
sure these others will confirm more, as only owned my 182 5 days....

dont know if i am correct but the 182 cups seemed harder ride than my 182 with Full cup pack?