cup’d Vs uncupped

[paulz182]

from reading a lot of the forums I know most of the 182s here have the cup suspension. I am thinking of having it added however I jst want to know has anyone here had a ride in both a 182 with the cup suspension and without.

If so is there a great difference in handling. I really want to have the cup suspension added but it costs a lot of money if you already have your 182. Im jst trying to justify it to myself.

 

[Tom]

Get eibachs. does the same job.

 

[Dash]

Would someone who has only been driving for 2 months instantly notice the difference in handling between these suspension set ups?

It might be a case of what you dont know, you dont miss?

Just an idea to see if you can drive both and see for yourself.

 

[langers]

I test drove in both...

The one without felt more comfortable while i was driving round the streets, and i was amased at the handling as I went round a big round about at speed.

Then I tried with the cup suspension, the feel is a little harder and when you go round corners it sits into them a little better rather than leans into them.

If you have kids and your not a boy racer, then you might prefer no cup.

 

[CocoPops]

Where are you based?
Get someone to give you a drive in a "cupped" 182.

 

[Mondial172]

Quote: Originally posted by Tomclio182 on 01 August 2004

Get eibachs. does the same job.

Not an even better job?

 

[CocoPops]

Quote: Originally posted by Adamf on 01 August 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Tomclio182 on 01 August 2004 Get eibachs. does the same job. [/QUOTE]Not an even better job?



depends wot youre comparing?

Eibachs v "Cupped" springs or eibach vs "Cup pack"

Yes the eibachs are good, but dont forget the cup pack has increased camber, stiffer sidewall tyres etc

 

[badinvincible]

Quote: Originally posted by CocoPops on 01 August 2004

Quote: Originally posted by Adamf on 01 August 2004

Quote: Originally posted by Tomclio182 on 01 August 2004

Get eibachs. does the same job.

Not an even better job?

depends wot youre comparing?

Eibachs v "Cupped" springs or eibach vs "Cup pack"

Yes the eibachs are good, but dont forget the cup pack has increased camber, stiffer sidewall tyres etc

seconded, its personal preference really

 

[Darren555]

Maybe you might want to think about resale values as well. The Cup pack will probably be the preferable choice of potential buyers.

Saying that I have got Eibach Pros on mine & they are fabulous!

Darren

 

[Funkyjahooner]

Quote: Originally posted by Darren555 on 01 August 2004


Maybe you might want to think about resale values as well. The Cup pack will probably be the preferable choice of potential buyers.

Saying that I have got Eibach Pros on mine & they are fabulous!

Darren

How do you work that out ?

As a new buyer there is a greater choice because you can buy what you like.When buying used you can only buy whats available.

There are plenty like myself that had the new choice,with or without packs and whatever colour i wanted.I chose,along with others not to go for the Cup pack so i cant see how a car with the Cup pack will be the preffered choice of potential buyers...its not everybody Cup of tea.

If i was buying again id still go for standard.Standard handling is superb,but then again im not the stig and i still dislike the Cup wheels no matter how hard i try to like them.

So if i were a potential second hand buyer id be on the lookout for a non cup pack 182 but more than likely would have to take whats on offer at the time.

 

[dk]

Quote: Originally posted by Funkyjahooner on 01 August 2004

Quote: Originally posted by Darren555 on 01 August 2004


Maybe you might want to think about resale values as well. The Cup pack will probably be the preferable choice of potential buyers.

Saying that I have got Eibach Pros on mine & they are fabulous!

Darren

How do you work that out ?

As a new buyer there is a greater choice because you can buy what you like.When buying used you can only buy whats available.

There are plenty like myself that had the new choice,with or without packs and whatever colour i wanted.I chose,along with others not to go for the Cup pack so i cant see how a car with the Cup pack will be the preffered choice of potential buyers...its not everybody Cup of tea.

If i was buying again id still go for standard.Standard handling is superb,but then again im not the stig and i still dislike the Cup wheels no matter how hard i try to like them.

So if i were a potential second hand buyer id be on the lookout for a non cup pack 182 but more than likely would have to take whats on offer at the time.

ofcourse some people will want the non cup packed 182 but he is still right, the preferred choice will be the cup version. Renault reckon that over 75% will opt for the cup suspension and i cant see that changing when they are available second hand especially after all the rave reviews its received with the cup suspension on.

 

[Funkyjahooner]

One of the points i was trying to make was despite 75% of people going for the Cup suspension when buying new potential used buyers only have available to them whats on offer at the time.Choice is much more limited than when buying new so thats an assumption they will go for whatever option...yes if all options are available but thats unlikely to be the case when buying a 182 used.

My car as an example is not a day to day car therefore its going to have much lower mileage than average so im assuming it will be quite desirable when i come to sell based on low mileage and the fact its garaged inbetween use.

The biggest factor to used buyers is condition and mileage and not factory fitted options which is what the suspension is,a factory fitted option.People buying used will be more than happy im sure to go for a "Non" suspension option and uprate it themselves if the car has the right mileage and condition.

Lets not forget the rave reviews the 182 has in general,even without the Cup suspension option.

 

[Jim172CUP]

horses for courses really.

 

[dk]

I have to say that on this occassion Funky I do disagree with you, I think that most people will put the cup suspension as the most important buying factor with a second hand 182 and because most of them have been sold with it they should have a lot of choice, a no cupped 182 will not be able to sell at the same cost as a cupped 182. This is especially the case as all imported 182s are non cupped so all cupped 182s are uk cars.

I can see where you are coming from but i doubt many will agree with you.

 

[CocoPops]

Imho, I would, if buying a 2nd hand 182, wonder why the owner did not take the cup suspension if it is only 200quid.

ie if you stooped on 200quid, what else did you stoop on during the life of the car, ie servicing, fuel, oil etc.

I mean whats 200quid when youre spending anywhere between 11k and 15k

 

[dk]

Quote: Originally posted by Jim172CUP on 01 August 2004

horses for courses really.

im surprised at that comment coming from a cup owner, surely you picked the cup for a reason and i bet part of that reason was the handling, if you were offered the handling of the 172 or the 172 cup, surely most people would choose the handling of the cup (assuming the equipment levels and speed were the same like they are between a 182 and a 182 with cup suspension and the cost was only £200 more)

Most people dont buy this type of car because of the build quality or service from renault, they buy them because they are cracking cars and at the top of their class, the hot hatch class where speed and handling are important, also good trackday cars.

 

[Funkyjahooner]

It was not a case of "Stooping" on the suspension and your theory is a waste of time because i will be able to produce every reciept of every penny spent on servicing etc therefore proving that not going for the suspension was purely a choice of prefering the more comfortable ride and a dislike for the cup wheels.Most buyers will check the service manual to check its up to date anyway and not assume its been kept cheaply because it hasnt got an option on it ! People will also check to see if its Uk or not and not assume and thats easy enough for anyone to prove.

It is an "Option" and therefore open to the original buyers choice.Not going for it is hardly a reflection on the owners attitude to servicing and cheapiness when caring for the car.A look around the cars condition and a look into the servicing manual is there for that.

There is no answer to this at this moment so because the market is not flooded with 182s at this time.I would be very suprised if a buyer walks away from mine when the time comes.Its going to have less than half the average mileage on and an up to date manual,proof of dealer servicing and proof of it being a non import.But are they going to walk away because it has not got a £200 option on it ?

I doubt it.

Condition and mileage come higher on the list than £200 options IMO and i doubt many would agree that the suspension comes before these 2 !

 

[dk]

ok funky then why are some people who are intending on buying an import 182 change their mind and pay an extra grand or so more just so that they can have the option of choosing the suspension.

In my opinion, I think renault should have done what mini do and have the sports suspension as standard and let people opt for the normal suspension if they wish.

and yes condition and mileage will be high on the list but people will be making that choice on the 182s with cup suspension, there will be many of these with the same mileage and condition as yours, it wont be alone.

The fact still remains that because so many people have opted for the suspension it will be the same when trying to sell second hand. Im not saying yours will be hard to sell because as you say, they are such a good car that there is bound to be people out there that will not want the cup suspension but a lot of the 182s being bought without the cup suspension are being done so by people who wont wait 3 months for delivery, when buying second hand, that will not come into it.

All I am saying is that a cupped 182 will be a more desirable car secondhand than one without the option (which isnt really an option, its a must in most peoples opinion, not like a cd changer, which can be added afterwards, the two are not comparable)

At the end of the day Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and we all have different priorities. I am not dissing your car as we both obviously had different reasons for buying our cars and as long as we are both happy, that is the main thing, we are worrying about something that will happen in 3 years or so when the 182 will probably have been bettered anyway and we will be fighting for a better than crap tradein price!

 

[CocoPops]

Also, Ive noticed a few threads with people that went without cup suspension, yet are now trying to add stiffer springs, so that surely says that they made a mistake when ordering the car?

 

[Funkyjahooner]

Correct me if im wrong but i doubt there are many people out there who have payed more than £1000 and an 8 week wait for the sake of a £200 option instead of an import.Maybe you know one or two in in the scheme of things but i doubt there are many.

As far as the suspension goes,whatever way you look at it,however big a fan of it you are it is still an option !! Its on the options list with the Cd changer.However much people say its a must its not on the must list !

Its all a matter of opinion.I used mine as an example as to how condition and mileage will be higher on most peoples lists.Yes i know there will be 182 s like mine out there with suspension but that wont be the norm.Thats what averages are for and mine will be half the average mileage when i come to sell.Sure there will be others like mine,and in better condition and less mileage no doubt but i cant see someone walking away because mine doesnt have the suspension on it and its going to be tough finding a car like the 182 with half the average mileage on in 3/4/5 years time.

Like its been said its horses for courses.In some peoples eyes the Cd changer factory fit will be more important than the suspension but it will still make yours and my cars attarctive to them because when the car is up for sale used people sometimes prefer to go for the car based on condition and mileage then add options or mod as they see fit.

I think Renault have it right,the standard suspension on the 182 is not normal anyway.It is sports suspension is it not ? Very good it is as well,as ive said before i live miles from the nearest City and 95% of my driving is non motorway and im very impressed with the cars handling.I have no intention of going on track as of yet and i rate it highly.IMO where Renault went wrong was the wheels...they should offer more choice.I really dont like the cup wheels for several reasons but i dont want to harp on about why i dislike them because 75% of 182 owners have them so im the minority.Had there been the choice of standard wheels or different wheels and cup suspension i probably would of gone for it.Thats where Renault messed up IMO.I dont think im alone on this one based on people who have changed the cup wheels ! You cant see the suspension but you can the wheels.

On the track is extreme but for the average Joe who cant drive like the Stig then they wont even take the car as standard to its full potential.Ive yet to wish for the cup suspension and ive had more than my fair share of fun around the countryside.Any potential buyers who think its wasted not having it are more than welcome to try it out and see !

Ill agree with your last comment...cup suspension or non cup we will only be offered a crap price anyway.There are some good cars in the pipeline and ours will be bettered anyway !

 

[Funkyjahooner]

Quote: Originally posted by CocoPops on 01 August 2004

Also, Ive noticed a few threads with people that went without cup suspension, yet are now trying to add stiffer springs, so that surely says that they made a mistake when ordering the car?

Same goes for people who change cup wheels then based on that !!

 

[Dave]

My 2 pennies worth is that Cupped will be the second hand buyers favoured choice. However if you say that you got Eibach springs instead and they are "just as good" im sure as a second hand buyer Id come take a look.

But only if there wasnt an advert for a Cupped 182 right next to it.

I also dont believe the options will figure hugely in second hand price differences. Simply becos prices fluctuate around the country anyway and it is a £200 option, not really anything major.


[Edited by Lee M on 02 August 2004 at 4:21pm] - offensive image removed

 

[Funkyjahooner]

Lol you got the retarded bit right !

Its all a matter of opinion no matter what any of us say.I will NEVER buy a red car as long as i live.So even if i were desperate and there was such thing as a Red 182 with cup suspension id decline it.There are lots of considerations when buying used,age,colour,condition,mileage,history,options etc and new for that matter and all of them come down to what we want from a car.

This thread had cheered me up though.If non suspension sales are only 25% and most of these are imports then im driving around in a car thats going to be pretty rare used for these who want standard like me.Yours will be harder to sell to someone who wants cup suspension because there will be more choice

Uk,full Renault history with proof and standard suspension and wheels.If people want Uk standard they are going to be well hard to find !!!

 

[matlow]

^^^ not that i want to piss on your bonfire but..............

buyers will still be faced with the same choice you were, lets leave the cup bit out for the moment.

you have a UK 182 that cost a couple of grand more than the equivalent import. there are others but for most buyers warranty is the main reason for buying UK rather than import. so depending when you get rid depends on how much of a premium your car will have.

on top of that if the imports are still valued at less than a UK car then buyers are faced with the choice of X amount for a used import or XX amount for a used UK car that is out of warranty.

I think (and this is just my opinion) that as loads of buyers have been happy to get an import from new then the same will apply used because of the savings to be made.



after all of that, a car is a box with wheels that you throw money at, lots of money. just enjoy what your paying through the nose for and be happy its not a robin reliant


[Edited by matlow on 02 August 2004 at 1:05pm]

 

[Funkyjahooner]

^^^^^^^

Sorry to dissapoint you but you have not "Pissed on my bonfire"

To be honest i dont care what my car is worth at trade in...i bought it for now and in the spec i want not with an eye on when i come to sell it.

As for your other comments you are clueless and ignorant as to what i paid for my car and if im paying through the nose for it.You are assuming and thats always foolish if you dont know the facts. You quote i have a Uk car that cost a couple of grand more than an import equivalent and to enjoy what im paying through the nose for.You have no idea what i paid,how much part ex i got and whos paying for my car

There wont be the same choice available to used buyers at all.They only have whats available at that time.New buyers have the full choice.If a used buyer wanted a Silver 182 with cup suspension,leaving out the cup spoiler pack with cd changer and sat nav factory fitted will he be able to get one ?

Maybe but it will be damm hard.Options are not a high priority anyway when buying used...they usually come down the list afer...

Age,condition,mileage,history and colour.The are always exceptions to the rule but im talking in general.

 

[dk]

Funky, as I keep saying, you are partly right but wrong about the cup suspension being JUST an option on the list, to most this is not the case and is an ESSENTIAL. This is what we are debating, that the cup suspension cars will be more sought after secondhand just like they are brand new. If you cant see this then fair enough but its fact.

That doesnt mean to say that you will have trouble selling yours as there may be someone looking for your exact spec at the time but there is more chance of someone wanting one with the cup suspension, thats all im saying.

 

[Funkyjahooner]

Dave,

As i keep saying the suspension is an "Option" ... that isnt my opinion its a fact.Its on page 10 of the price list if you still insist its not an option...under the heading Clio option packs ! Its also on page 12 under the heading "Options" !

Its on the option list and you can say its essential until you are blue in the face but its an option ! Just like the spoiler pack,racing stripes and cd changer and sat nav etc.

Its only your opinion that its essential.Call your car a 182 cup and claim the 182 suspension "Option" is an essential all day long for me,its your choice but you cant change the fact its an option ! I fail to see how you disagree on a blatent fact ?

It maybe essential to you and others that chose it,just like cd changer or sat nav are "Essential" to others who see it like that.

As for selling used,we will have to wait and see because at this thime there is no proof with not enough used 182s in the system.We are all just guessing and assuming.


[Edited by Funkyjahooner on 02 August 2004 at 4:40pm]

 

[Jools182]

The comments made by CocoPops regaurding the Stooping by non cupped 182 owners is a bit harsh!!, just because i didnt go for the cup sus does not mean i dont look after my car!!



As for the whole second hand debate, you could say that second hand 182s with cupped sus would be in a worse state than ones without because if the original owner went for this option he must have wanted to drive the thing like he/she stole it..........but then this is probably as misleading as CocoPops comments.......

 

[dk]

Quote: Originally posted by Funkyjahooner on 02 August 2004


Dave,

As i keep saying the suspension is an "Option" ... that isnt my opinion its a fact.Its on page 10 of the price list if you still insist its not an option...under the heading Clio option packs ! Its also on page 12 under the heading "Options" !

Its on the option list and you can say its essential until you are blue in the face but its an option ! Just like the spoiler pack,racing stripes and cd changer and sat nav etc.

Its only your opinion that its essential.Call your car a 182 cup and claim the 182 suspension "Option" is an essential all day long for me,its your choice but you cant change the fact its an option ! I fail to see how you disagree on a blatent fact ?

It maybe essential to you and others that chose it,just like cd changer or sat nav are "Essential" to others who see it like that.

As for selling used,we will have to wait and see because at this thime there is no proof with not enough used 182s in the system.We are all just guessing and assuming.


[Edited by Funkyjahooner on 02 August 2004 at 4:40pm]

you are losing your mind, I have never said that it wasnt an option, I highlighted the JUST to make a point, there are options that a few people may pick like Sat Nav and pre telephone equipement and even cd changer, but the suspension option is not really in the same class as these as the uptake is reported to be around 75%, that makes it a pretty popular option and if so many people are going for it from new, the pattern will continue into the secondhand market.

We will continue to go around in circles until you stop repeating yourself, I am not mocking what you have bought in any way and have said that from the start, what I am contesting is your view that the suspension option will not be a more popular choice when buying secondhand.

This is the last I am going to say on the subject because you are starting to bore me now, maybe if you read my posts fully you would see where I am coming from and that you are the only one who is having your view.

I dont like to argue with you as it is pointless, I just think that you are missing the point and cant see the wood for the trees.

 

[Funkyjahooner]

Dave,

I agree...on this thread you are boring me to tears and the reason i have to keep repeating is because you keep going back to the same things.I have read your posts and when you highlight the fact that most see the cup suspesnsion as ESSENTIAL (as you put it) then i am responding with a fact which you still dont agree with.

You seem to disagree and not like the fact that the cup suspension you chose to go for is only an option.I cant be bothered anymore having to keep repeating facts.Say all you like its different to other options its the same as.High on your list maybe but not others.

You have a racing blue 182,im sure there will be somebody out there horrified that people buy them without racing stripes.People will point out its an option...thats all im doing.Im not contesting cup suspension 182 will be more popular,of course they will be if 75% of new buyers are going for it.I was trying to make the point that its not the be all and end all,there are way more factors used buyers will consider,but you seem to miss this point by a mile.

Maybe you should practice what you preach and read my posts again.With regards to the cup suspension i was trying to highlight some points that are more important when selling used.For most it will be way down the list as i have said....yes im repeating because you are missing my point completely.I would be very very suprised if a used buyer puts that option anywhere near the top.

It is a pointless debate (or argument as you put it).Its up there with the cup/182 performance and is my 182 a 182 cup or not debates.There is hardly anything in it and most of it boils down to opinion.Whats next ? Which colour will sell the best ? Lets get figures for the best selling colour and argue how well its going to sell....errr lets not.

Anyway,like yourself i cant be arsed going on and on anymore.Its a waste of time if a point thats made cant be seen.Your car will sell no problems..so will mine.Its a cracking car and will be desirable when the time comes....options or not.

 

[homerjay]

I dont have the cup pack on my 182, and i think it still handles better than most other cars ive driven, plus it dunt shake ya bolx off...

but does sit a little too high for my liking, so einbachs maybe in the pipeline...

 

[RobFenn]

I would say the Cup package is better than Eibachs, im not sure entirely of what the package consists of but i think its a wider track and different geometry to a tried a tested state.

The Eibachs lower the CoG and will change the geometry (camber and castor) but not necessarily to the right degree. It also removes a certain amount of damper travel and being a progressive spring its not ideal if you want to do track work as it will give varying damping qualities.

-Rob

 

[Cupster]

I have standard 172 cup springs for sale!!! Please PM if you want.

 

[rwaterman]

So are renault able to do the suspension upgrade for people who feel they want it after they have already bought there cars?

Would it still be £200 if not, how much?............

I feel it is something i would want to add to my 182, that extra option i wasnt keen on the idea at first coz of the black car with dark wheel but its something i now want............... I personally feel that im missing out on that little something extra...

Rob.

 

[matlow]

i think with it being factory fit then a dealer wont do it. If they would then your looking at over a grand, four new wheels is going to cost for a start.......