Cup brake upgrade

Reth Clio cup · Mar 24, 2003

Was thinking about upgrading the brakes on the Cup and was wondering if anyone had done the same.

I had 280mm Black diamond disc and EBC greenstuff pads on my Coupe 1.616v and the setup was great but the ABS would always kick in.

Was thinking about the K-Tec upgrade

Has anyone done the K-tec stuff on their Cup/172?

Any opinions much appreciated

JJ172 · Mar 25, 2003

The brakes on the 172/Cup are fantastic, even on the track! Do you do a lot of track days, or are you just looking for -pose value-?!

RobFenn · Mar 25, 2003

Id agree with what JJ172 has said, they cope pretty well, unless you go on track pretty often its not really worth it, the upgrades cost a huge amount of money after all. K-tecs do look nice admittedly!

Frosty · Mar 25, 2003

Im after some new brakes. The car was really well balanced in terms of handling, speed, and stopping. Now that I have the ECU the car does sub 6 sec 0-60 sprints and the stopping needs uprating too!

RobFenn · Mar 25, 2003

so 5% increase equals over half a second 0-60 decrease? Anyway just because you accelerate faster doesnt mean youll stop slower.

Frosty · Mar 25, 2003

The car will do 40mph in first gear! That leaves only 20mph of work in second gear - so of course its under 6 seconds. You can hit 100 in 3rd so that 0-100 time must have dramatically decreased too.

It does mean better brakes are needed because you are carrying more speed at any given moment.

RobFenn · Mar 25, 2003

You need over 200bhp to get under 6 seconds..this could go on forever lol but my opinion is no chance.

Fair enough on track but on you regularly go over 100mph then? The standard brakes should easily cope with the minimal changes the ECU has made.

Reth Clio cup · Mar 25, 2003

I personally think the brakes on the Cup are pants and dont have much confidence in them compared to my coupe it had the 280mm black diamond discs and green stuff pads and were fantastic. Just wondering what anyone thought of the K-tec stuff?

Reth Clio cup · Mar 25, 2003

Frosty what do you think of the Cup brakes ?? I have no confidence in them. The prices for pads and discs are usually under £180 which i think is quite good. Sureley to replace with factory stuff would amount to the same.

RobFenn · Mar 25, 2003

Do you mean brake strength or brake feel is the problem?

Frosty · Mar 25, 2003

RobFenn: You have no idea what the ECU does since you own neither a Cup, nor the sports ECU for it. I dont care about figures, or whats needed to do this speed or that speed.

Time is a constant factor, it does not change from car to car, distort figures, or lie. If the car does 60 in under 6 then it doesnt matter what power it has or needs to do it - the fact is that it does it. I dont care what you say about how quick it should be, or how much power it should be making, because I know what it does, I have stated what it does, and am more than satisfied.

Reth: I LOVE the pedal feel and I think they work well in the dry. Its the wet that bothers me. I think that you need to have, "Theyre gonna lock up!" in the back of your mind the whole time so you can get the most of them. Its the old ABS thing all over again.

RobFenn · Mar 25, 2003

Put your handbag away Frosty...

The Cup is skittish in the wet but its a simple solution, dont go fast in the wet.

Reth Clio cup · Mar 25, 2003

I just feel they dont have enought intial bite when appplying the pedal.

Frosty, sounds like the ECU really worked for you worth the money then ??

steve-hall · Mar 25, 2003

R-sport are working on a suspension and brake package at the mo, that will also be renault approved

Frosty · Mar 25, 2003

Thats what Im waiting for. I should be on their R & D team I should

RobFenn · Mar 25, 2003

Wouldnt it of made sense to of made ABS an option which could be removed later on for these add ons?

paddymph · Mar 25, 2003

For once (!!!) i agree with Rob.

cant see a cup getting sub 6 with just a chip?? just aint gonna happen until youve got WELL over 200bhp,

paul172cup · Mar 25, 2003

Gareth the Cup brakes are the same as your Coupe ones.

Let me know if you want some more as they also do a nice anodised blue set of discs as well.

McBunny · Mar 25, 2003

to get under 6 seconds 0-60 you NEED 200bhp and 190lb-ft of torque out of the 172 after calculating it

Reth Clio cup · Mar 25, 2003

Paul, how goes it mate?

Those anodised ones sounds sweet, intrested in waht R-sport have to offer. But those black diamond discs matched with the EBC green stuff we had on the coupe were great.

RobFenn · Mar 25, 2003

Were they x drilled and vented?

Craggy · Mar 25, 2003

must admit i can belive frosty. on good ground i can see it. look at the vid of my williams from york, i go into 3 at 5. something seconds, does 61mph in 2nd....................

Reth Clio cup · Mar 25, 2003

They were vented and grooved cant remember how many grooves 24 rings a bell.

cliosport.nu · Mar 25, 2003

Ive upgraded my discs and pads to RedDot Racing. Im using same size, 280/238mm. 6-groove discs and Competition pads + ATE DOT 4 brake fluid.

Cooling is very important aswell. A "scoop" with a hose leading in cold air to the discs are essential when stretching the right leg. The upgrade has really made a huge different... Im very pleased with it!
/joel @ http://www.ClioSport.nuwww.ClioSport.nu

paddymph · Mar 25, 2003

craggy yeah i can see that, but surely accelaration wont take it to 5.9 seconds? at worst? from a chip alone?

RobFenn · Mar 25, 2003

From what i remember Frosty mentioned the 5% increase in power and better mid range response. Quite rightly i havent driven a Cup with the chip in but accleration is down to torque from low down, which hasnt been mentioned as a noticeable improvement yet. Therefore just thinking with common sense i cant see how half a second is knocked off.

paddymph · Mar 25, 2003

me neither? proof!!!! proof!!!!!

RobFenn · Mar 25, 2003

Proof never happens! AP22 timing gear should be included in membership

Rich-D · Mar 25, 2003

Quote: Originally posted by JJ172 on 25 March 2003

The brakes on the 172/Cup are fantastic, even on the track!

Agreed...

On the road the standard brakes are more than good enough and even on track, they cope quite well. Possibly go for a better pad such as the Mintex M1144s but thats all you need.

rt172 · Mar 25, 2003

I also believe Frosty. With just 1 person in the car, a lightish fuel load and with the temperature not too high, I can well believe that a chipped cup could break 6 seconds (or at least get very close to it).

Im well aware that Rob knows everything there is to be known, but does a lotus Elise not have a measly 118bhp yet reaches 60 in under 6 seconds?! Thats not even got 200bhp/tonne....more like 155/tonne (guess, BTW). God knows where this 200bhp thing has come from. Its more likely to be down to power/weight ratio and gearing.

Reth Clio cup · Mar 25, 2003

Having had really brakes on my coupe i just find the brakes on the Cup not very encouraging, this is just my opinion. Paul172Cup had the exact same set up on his coupe aswell, wonder what his thoughts are?

paddymph · Mar 25, 2003

i dunno, im not convinced that a chip will take it to less than 6?

Reth Clio cup · Mar 25, 2003

Was there not some magazine that wiped 1 second of the 0-60 when they done a review of the cup.

Anyway back to my brakes anyone tried the K-tec stuff any opinions.

BenR · Mar 25, 2003

i really dont see how anybody is taking these 0-60 figs seriously!

sub 6 secs!...........i think i can just abot believe that......nope, nope i cant......

A chip alone wont change any 0-60 times by even teh smallest amount. Few things, this odd tally up system you got, like this mod + this mod = this power and time. And your in gear speed talk......the engine generally will be comming off cam and loosing power and torque. So, it might actually be more beneficial to teh 0-60 time to shift up before the off cam drop in torque/power is equal to or less than the same latidudinal point in the lower rev range, simply because you have a rising torque curve rather than a declining one.

The Elise, why does it get there so fast? simple, vehicle dynamics. It weighs some 400kg less, but has less power......fine, but the power to weight ratio is near enough the same. Add to this its mid engined and RWD, accelerative weight transfer will lead to a higher total amount of torque or power that the tyres can transfer to the rd without too high a tyre slip. More grip, more go!

RobFenn · Mar 25, 2003

Nagra_mk1_172 · Mar 25, 2003

Ive always thought that for acceleration you need lots of low down tourqe ......

rt172 · Mar 25, 2003

Ben & Rob - "You need over 200bhp to get under 6 seconds"

No you dont, thats all Im saying!

BenR · Mar 25, 2003

dont need 200bhp at all.....

my 125 kart had 52bhp and a 6 speed sequential box, topped out at 164 kph on the gearing we were runing, and it hit peak rpm in 6th at 5.56 secs......thats movin!

The 250 kart did it in 5 secs, but it topped out at about 140mph.....in theory we had enought o reach 160mph, but top UK formula E karts have enough go for near 180!!!!!

Forget formula 3, thats just slow! lol

rt172 · Mar 25, 2003

Does the Cup hit 60 in 2nd gear without the rev limiter increase? Ive just had about 0.4 seconds wiped off my 0-60 time (as best I can tell) by fitting the Hillpower chip....but its a cheat because it now does 60 in 2nd gear....no 2nd gear change to get to 60 means quicker 0-60 time! Hee hee!

RobFenn · Mar 25, 2003

Ben thats a hopeful, id think youd flip and die! 100mph feels very fast in karts wouldnt want to go above, some karts can do 0-60 in 2.5 easy, funny watching them do it!

Cup brake upgrade

Similar threads