Up rocks
I've copied this from an old EVO magazine i had, i think i missed the article when i 1st got the magazine but now i have a Clio it made for interesting reading. Essentially its an on tack comparisson between the following cars: 172, 172 cup, Clio V6, Clio Cup racer and V6 racer. Enjoy 
Taken from EVO magazine special 50th issue December 2002…
But Renault is also keen to emphasise the Cup’s circuit prowess – this car is aimed at owners that get their kicks at track days as well as bumpy B-roads. So we’ve brought it along to Jonathon Palmer’s Bedford Autodrome to see how much quicker – and how much more fun it is than the standard 172.
For some extra perspective, EVO Fast Fleeter Tony Bailey has brought along his Clio V6, looking pumped-up and ready to justify its hefty price tag. And we’ve also laid are hands on a Clio Cup racer and the notoriously tricky V6 racer. Let’s hope it doesn’t rain…
Fortunately the Autodrome is bathed in sunshine as the cars arrive. Also here is Rick Pearson, a seasoned Clio Cup racer, now competing in the European Trophy in a 285bhp V6, it will be Rick who will set the definitive lap times later in the day, but right now its time for some subjective impressions.
It’s a good idea to get a benchmark early on in the day, so I jump into the standard 172, trundle out on to the empty track and remind myself why we like the Clio so much. Straight away it feels keen, fast and grippy – but more than anything its chassis ability to deliver consistent, clean and faithful cornering line without ever feeling inert that really impresses. The key is adjustability. Under steer rarely gets a stranglehold and it allows you to attack any given corner in a number of styles – from neat and tidy to full-on hooligan broad slide.
Whats more, the 172’s fun factor is done no harm at all by its tendency to lean substantially when pushing on. It may look a little alarming but it means you’re never in any doubt as to how the chassis is loaded and if you fancy using all that momentum it can make for long, clean slides. It really is an absolute hoot. The lower, stiffer Cup certainly looks more purposeful and should grip even harder – I just hope handling hasn’t been forgotten in the quest for grip.
As I put in a few laps in the 172, Tony Bailey is out in the Clio V6. We’ve started out on Bedford’s tight and twisty East circuit – not the V6’s natural habitat. The longer West will be used for the timed laps and should even-up the playing field. Having said that, the V6 is circulating at a fair old lick and destroys the front-drive 172 on the way out of the corners. The rear-drive, mid-engined V6 has traction by the bucket-load and big slugs of torque that the 172 simply can’t match. However, the 172’s ace is its ability to change direction with lightening speed and the confidence that its predictable handling breeds. There’s not much in it lap-time-wise.
Bailey isn’t too concerned about the 172 and the Cup nipping at his V6’s heels: “I know the V6 isn’t a real track day specialist but its great fun on the road. Torquey, subjectively very quick and with bags of character – I’ve really grown to love it. Even if the Cup is quicker than my car I’d still rather have the V6. A front-drive hot hatch doesn’t inspire me at all.” Fair enough, but I still reckon he’ll wince if the Cup or worse, the 172 manages to upstage the V6.
First time out in the Cup and within half a lap it’s obvious that the 172 will struggle to keep sight of the new car when we strap the test gear on, while the V6 will need an exceptionally brave and skilled pilot to challenge its lap times. The Cup responds to the throttle immediately and pulls hard across the rev range. At low RPM the weight-saving measures are most obvious where the 172 would falter, the Cup flies. It’s got the straights covered, by a surprising margin. But what happens come the corners?
Well, it’s quite different to the 172. The plus points are much stronger front-end bite coupled to more responsive steering and a huge reduction in body roll. The Cup feels at home on the track because it reacts so quickly and determinedly. A 172 is great fun but just occasionally you’ll feel like your torturing it rather than giving it a healthy workout. The Cup never lurches heavily on its springs, never feels uncomfortably stretched – its an efficient and cohesive package that somehow feels more modern than the 172, tight damping and the improved braking - there’s no ABS but the pedal bites hard at the top of its travel and is brimming with feel – add up to a track package that feels impregnable next to the less focussed 172. And although it grips harder and both the front and rear it hasn’t lost that fantastic adjustability that defines the Clio. In fact it seems to respond more willingly to your right foot.
The V6 is a different animal entirely. With relatively soft damping at the rear, the engine – which is mounted high up – always feels like its dictating the attitude of the car. Turns in quickly and the front-end buts but the rear needs more time to fall into line. The weight of the engine has to settle on the soft springs and then you can get hard on the power and use the cars excellent traction. Problems arise when you need to flick from right to left or dab the brake in mid-corner. In the Cup, direction changes are drama-free; the V6 needs to be treated with far more care.
Through a left-right combination the V6 has to be guided sympathetically. Brake in a dead straight line, get the weight of the motor working for you and then smoothly wind off lock and apply it in the opposite direction. If you hurry the V6 it’ll spin. Not slide gracefully and accurately – the V6 doesn’t do this. Just spin. In slower turns you can tweak the tail, but pushing it out under power and holding it there is difficult. The big surprise is that subjectively it doesn’t seem to have the straight-line pace to live with the manic Cup. At the top end it feels breathless.
Not a criticism that could be levelled at Pearson’s truly bonkers V6 racer. With 285bhp and weighing only 1100kg it is never found wanting for sheer accelerative thrust. My 1st go in it doesn’t come until later in the day. It’s getting dark, there’s a thin film of water glistening atop the smooth tarmac and spectacular forks of lightening are piercing the purple sky. There’s a storm brewing and I’m strapped into a V6 racer – on slicks.
Now, Bedford Autodrome normally encourages a bit of irresponsibility with its wide run-off areas and lack of Armco but right now I’m prepared to take it a little easy. The V6 reacts angrily to the merest tickle of the throttle and although that mighty engine is kept in check by rock hard damping, there’s still the nagging feeling that if it lets go I could be in Bedford town centre before it stops spinning.
In truth it shares only the wonderful steering and the stunning shape with the road car. Its grip on slicks is way beyond any of the other cars and the braking is simply awesome. The sequential box is the final ingredient of an experience that is thrilling, scary and unforgettable . Where the road car rolls into over steer, the racer is more likely to push its nose wide. You can accelerate through this but your heading into a world of spiky, buttock clenching over steer. At least the stiff damping means the V6 racer slides cleanly and predictably (if very, very quickly) where the road car lurches at any number of odd angles.
Naturally, I spin it in a big way, but im impressed and encouraged that the V6 can be radically improved in both performance and handling. Lets hope the revised road-going V6 (which will have 253bhp and a stiffer chassis) takes heed of what the race teams have learned over the last couple of years.
Bedford’s Clio Cup racer proves Renault is already using lessons learnt on the race track in its road cars. Its obviously much stiffer than the road-going Cup but the basic similarities are quickly apparent. There’s that same positive turn-in and resistance to under steer, you can put the power down incredibly early and it shares the road cars throttle adjustability.
In truth, the Autodrome-spec Cup racers are a little compromised. They still feature the fantastic sequential box, allowing flat shifts and encouraging ultra-aggressive braking, but they run on road tyres and have a rev limit of around 6000rpm where the racers would run up to 8000rpm. The road rubber can make the Clio a little too twitchy under braking and if your over exuberant on turn-in – but most of the time its just a whole heap of fun. On slicks, and with another 2000rpm to play with, it would be awesome. With a race car so drivable and enjoyable its no wonder RenaultSport fancied making a Cup for the road.
The race cars prove that the Clio has a track provenance to be proud of, and the Cup makes a great track-day companion. It feels genuinely fast, grips as doggedly as many more expensive road cars and entertained way beyond the expectations you may have for a 13k hatch. Its not perfect – hardcore track drivers would want an even stiffer set-up and. Perhaps, to dial out the degree of under steer that remains – but at the money its hard to fault. It outshone the 172 with surprising ease at Bedford, and confirmed that the V6 is only for the brave. It’ll be even more formidable when Renault finalises the track-oriented options list: rollcage, engine upgrades, beefier brakes… I have a feeling our long-term Clio Cup could be in line for a few modifications.
The Racers View: Rick Pearson rates the Clios
After half a dozen or so sighting laps in the 172road car, I pile straight into my regular V6 race car, the only car here running on slicks. Edgy in the adverse camber corner out of the first chicane, as you’d expect from mid-engined, rear wheel drive, it nonetheless feels awesome on the brakes and coming down the gearbox as well as ferocious in a straight line.
Next up is PalmerSports Clio 172 race car. Compared with the cars that run in the one-make championship, this car differs in that it has a lower rev limit and road tyres fitted in the interest of longevity. It feels extremely nervous without any real grip from the rear tyres, while the rev limit seemed to hamper acceleration.
Time to try the road cars. I choose to take the V6 first, leaving me a direct comparison between the 172 and the new Cup version later.
Having heard a few horror stories about the V6 being sluggish and evil handling, I’m pleasantly surprised. I’m able to drift the back end under power out of the hairpins and it has lots of low-down torque. I do have one big spin going into the first chicane where the sudden weight change from left to right upsets the rear of the car. But then its mid-engined and there’s a big old 3-litre lump out behind you so you must drive it with the respect the configuration deserves. I was more than happy to power through the last two sweepers onto the start/finish straight with a hint of opposite lock. I imagine it would be a hoot on the road, although if I bought one I’d I want my Mark Fish motorsport team to upgrade the engine and stiffen up the rear suspension a little.
Down to the last two, and first the 172, these little cars are a scream and the top end pull of the engine feels exceptional after the V6. The rear end is a lot more faithful than in the PalmerSport race car – it will still slide but a judicious application of power gets the rear back in line and following the front wheels again if you overcook it. Marvellous fun.
And now the star of the day – the new Clio Cup. A wider front and rear track plus less weight sound ideal modifications, but is it noticeable on the track? YES! With more stability through the corners, increased levels of rear end grip and just a little bit more go on the straights, this car is pulling a few more revs everywhere and can be turned into the corners with just a little more speed. Its most noticeable through the last corner – a very fast right-hand sweeper where both 172’s will go through with the foot flat on the floor and the left foot just brushing the brake to keep the nose turned in, but the Cup can be turned in without as much of a lift and consequently will go through in fourth gear rather than being at the top end in third.
This car will be great fun on the roads and a complete blast on track days with a chuckable chassis and a super-sweet engine. Would I pay more for a Clio Cup over the standard 172? Yes. But I don’t have to because Renault are going to sell it for less! I want one.
Lap Times
Heres what happened when we strapped our test gear onto all the Clios. Rick set the benchmark in his V6 racer, which screamed around the Autodrome’s West circuit (complete with a much slower ‘Pif-Paf’ chicane than when we used it for our track day car of the year feature) in 1.17.90. The combination of slicks, 285bhp and staggering brakes predictably make it by far the fastest of the bunch.
The Cup racer was hampered by a lower than normal rev limit (6000rpm rather than 8000rpm) and road tyres which meant it couldn’t get near the flame-spitting V6. It broke the tape at 1.24.95. The big grudge match was yet to play out though. The road cars were sure to be closely matched, but which would prove the fastest?
First up was the 172. Pearson loved it – more so than the restricted and very tail happy racer and laid down the gauntlet for the Cup and the V6 with a time of 1.28.85. The fast fleet V6 should have the power and brakes to eclipse it but extracting a fast time is like walking a tightrope. Sure enough within half a lap the V6 rotates through the Club chicane. Undeterred, Pearson stays committed for another three laps. The last flying lap is right on the ragged edge and yields an impressive time of 1.28.45 – pipping the 172 by four tenths.
The Cup feels faster than both and Pearson goes out to settle the debate. The result is stunning. Visibly faster than the 172 and allowing so much more commitment than the knife-edge V6 through rapid direction changes, the cup blows both into the weeds. Its time of 1.26.30 vindicates Renault UK’s track day aspirations. If you’ve got a Cup on order you should be very happy indeed.
Taken from EVO magazine special 50th issue December 2002…
Cup Clash
Just how good – and how fast – is the new Clio Cup? To find out we took it along to the Bedford Autodrome and compared it with some other hot Clio’s, from the standard 172 to a full-blown Clio V6 racer. Game on.
Pictures: David Shepherd
Words: Jethro Bovingdon
Words: Jethro Bovingdon
The Clio Cup has all the genuine makings of a people’s champion. Light, fast and almost absurdly affordable, its success is virtually guaranteed. In EVO 048 it even took on the mighty Focus RS and came away not only with honour intact, but with some startling performance figures under its belt (0-60 in 6.5secs, 50-70 in 4.1secs, etc). On the road the Cup is a hit, no question.
But Renault is also keen to emphasise the Cup’s circuit prowess – this car is aimed at owners that get their kicks at track days as well as bumpy B-roads. So we’ve brought it along to Jonathon Palmer’s Bedford Autodrome to see how much quicker – and how much more fun it is than the standard 172.
For some extra perspective, EVO Fast Fleeter Tony Bailey has brought along his Clio V6, looking pumped-up and ready to justify its hefty price tag. And we’ve also laid are hands on a Clio Cup racer and the notoriously tricky V6 racer. Let’s hope it doesn’t rain…
Fortunately the Autodrome is bathed in sunshine as the cars arrive. Also here is Rick Pearson, a seasoned Clio Cup racer, now competing in the European Trophy in a 285bhp V6, it will be Rick who will set the definitive lap times later in the day, but right now its time for some subjective impressions.
It’s a good idea to get a benchmark early on in the day, so I jump into the standard 172, trundle out on to the empty track and remind myself why we like the Clio so much. Straight away it feels keen, fast and grippy – but more than anything its chassis ability to deliver consistent, clean and faithful cornering line without ever feeling inert that really impresses. The key is adjustability. Under steer rarely gets a stranglehold and it allows you to attack any given corner in a number of styles – from neat and tidy to full-on hooligan broad slide.
Whats more, the 172’s fun factor is done no harm at all by its tendency to lean substantially when pushing on. It may look a little alarming but it means you’re never in any doubt as to how the chassis is loaded and if you fancy using all that momentum it can make for long, clean slides. It really is an absolute hoot. The lower, stiffer Cup certainly looks more purposeful and should grip even harder – I just hope handling hasn’t been forgotten in the quest for grip.
As I put in a few laps in the 172, Tony Bailey is out in the Clio V6. We’ve started out on Bedford’s tight and twisty East circuit – not the V6’s natural habitat. The longer West will be used for the timed laps and should even-up the playing field. Having said that, the V6 is circulating at a fair old lick and destroys the front-drive 172 on the way out of the corners. The rear-drive, mid-engined V6 has traction by the bucket-load and big slugs of torque that the 172 simply can’t match. However, the 172’s ace is its ability to change direction with lightening speed and the confidence that its predictable handling breeds. There’s not much in it lap-time-wise.
Bailey isn’t too concerned about the 172 and the Cup nipping at his V6’s heels: “I know the V6 isn’t a real track day specialist but its great fun on the road. Torquey, subjectively very quick and with bags of character – I’ve really grown to love it. Even if the Cup is quicker than my car I’d still rather have the V6. A front-drive hot hatch doesn’t inspire me at all.” Fair enough, but I still reckon he’ll wince if the Cup or worse, the 172 manages to upstage the V6.
First time out in the Cup and within half a lap it’s obvious that the 172 will struggle to keep sight of the new car when we strap the test gear on, while the V6 will need an exceptionally brave and skilled pilot to challenge its lap times. The Cup responds to the throttle immediately and pulls hard across the rev range. At low RPM the weight-saving measures are most obvious where the 172 would falter, the Cup flies. It’s got the straights covered, by a surprising margin. But what happens come the corners?
Well, it’s quite different to the 172. The plus points are much stronger front-end bite coupled to more responsive steering and a huge reduction in body roll. The Cup feels at home on the track because it reacts so quickly and determinedly. A 172 is great fun but just occasionally you’ll feel like your torturing it rather than giving it a healthy workout. The Cup never lurches heavily on its springs, never feels uncomfortably stretched – its an efficient and cohesive package that somehow feels more modern than the 172, tight damping and the improved braking - there’s no ABS but the pedal bites hard at the top of its travel and is brimming with feel – add up to a track package that feels impregnable next to the less focussed 172. And although it grips harder and both the front and rear it hasn’t lost that fantastic adjustability that defines the Clio. In fact it seems to respond more willingly to your right foot.
The V6 is a different animal entirely. With relatively soft damping at the rear, the engine – which is mounted high up – always feels like its dictating the attitude of the car. Turns in quickly and the front-end buts but the rear needs more time to fall into line. The weight of the engine has to settle on the soft springs and then you can get hard on the power and use the cars excellent traction. Problems arise when you need to flick from right to left or dab the brake in mid-corner. In the Cup, direction changes are drama-free; the V6 needs to be treated with far more care.
Through a left-right combination the V6 has to be guided sympathetically. Brake in a dead straight line, get the weight of the motor working for you and then smoothly wind off lock and apply it in the opposite direction. If you hurry the V6 it’ll spin. Not slide gracefully and accurately – the V6 doesn’t do this. Just spin. In slower turns you can tweak the tail, but pushing it out under power and holding it there is difficult. The big surprise is that subjectively it doesn’t seem to have the straight-line pace to live with the manic Cup. At the top end it feels breathless.
Not a criticism that could be levelled at Pearson’s truly bonkers V6 racer. With 285bhp and weighing only 1100kg it is never found wanting for sheer accelerative thrust. My 1st go in it doesn’t come until later in the day. It’s getting dark, there’s a thin film of water glistening atop the smooth tarmac and spectacular forks of lightening are piercing the purple sky. There’s a storm brewing and I’m strapped into a V6 racer – on slicks.
Now, Bedford Autodrome normally encourages a bit of irresponsibility with its wide run-off areas and lack of Armco but right now I’m prepared to take it a little easy. The V6 reacts angrily to the merest tickle of the throttle and although that mighty engine is kept in check by rock hard damping, there’s still the nagging feeling that if it lets go I could be in Bedford town centre before it stops spinning.
In truth it shares only the wonderful steering and the stunning shape with the road car. Its grip on slicks is way beyond any of the other cars and the braking is simply awesome. The sequential box is the final ingredient of an experience that is thrilling, scary and unforgettable . Where the road car rolls into over steer, the racer is more likely to push its nose wide. You can accelerate through this but your heading into a world of spiky, buttock clenching over steer. At least the stiff damping means the V6 racer slides cleanly and predictably (if very, very quickly) where the road car lurches at any number of odd angles.
Naturally, I spin it in a big way, but im impressed and encouraged that the V6 can be radically improved in both performance and handling. Lets hope the revised road-going V6 (which will have 253bhp and a stiffer chassis) takes heed of what the race teams have learned over the last couple of years.
Bedford’s Clio Cup racer proves Renault is already using lessons learnt on the race track in its road cars. Its obviously much stiffer than the road-going Cup but the basic similarities are quickly apparent. There’s that same positive turn-in and resistance to under steer, you can put the power down incredibly early and it shares the road cars throttle adjustability.
In truth, the Autodrome-spec Cup racers are a little compromised. They still feature the fantastic sequential box, allowing flat shifts and encouraging ultra-aggressive braking, but they run on road tyres and have a rev limit of around 6000rpm where the racers would run up to 8000rpm. The road rubber can make the Clio a little too twitchy under braking and if your over exuberant on turn-in – but most of the time its just a whole heap of fun. On slicks, and with another 2000rpm to play with, it would be awesome. With a race car so drivable and enjoyable its no wonder RenaultSport fancied making a Cup for the road.
The race cars prove that the Clio has a track provenance to be proud of, and the Cup makes a great track-day companion. It feels genuinely fast, grips as doggedly as many more expensive road cars and entertained way beyond the expectations you may have for a 13k hatch. Its not perfect – hardcore track drivers would want an even stiffer set-up and. Perhaps, to dial out the degree of under steer that remains – but at the money its hard to fault. It outshone the 172 with surprising ease at Bedford, and confirmed that the V6 is only for the brave. It’ll be even more formidable when Renault finalises the track-oriented options list: rollcage, engine upgrades, beefier brakes… I have a feeling our long-term Clio Cup could be in line for a few modifications.
The Racers View: Rick Pearson rates the Clios
After half a dozen or so sighting laps in the 172road car, I pile straight into my regular V6 race car, the only car here running on slicks. Edgy in the adverse camber corner out of the first chicane, as you’d expect from mid-engined, rear wheel drive, it nonetheless feels awesome on the brakes and coming down the gearbox as well as ferocious in a straight line.
Next up is PalmerSports Clio 172 race car. Compared with the cars that run in the one-make championship, this car differs in that it has a lower rev limit and road tyres fitted in the interest of longevity. It feels extremely nervous without any real grip from the rear tyres, while the rev limit seemed to hamper acceleration.
Time to try the road cars. I choose to take the V6 first, leaving me a direct comparison between the 172 and the new Cup version later.
Having heard a few horror stories about the V6 being sluggish and evil handling, I’m pleasantly surprised. I’m able to drift the back end under power out of the hairpins and it has lots of low-down torque. I do have one big spin going into the first chicane where the sudden weight change from left to right upsets the rear of the car. But then its mid-engined and there’s a big old 3-litre lump out behind you so you must drive it with the respect the configuration deserves. I was more than happy to power through the last two sweepers onto the start/finish straight with a hint of opposite lock. I imagine it would be a hoot on the road, although if I bought one I’d I want my Mark Fish motorsport team to upgrade the engine and stiffen up the rear suspension a little.
Down to the last two, and first the 172, these little cars are a scream and the top end pull of the engine feels exceptional after the V6. The rear end is a lot more faithful than in the PalmerSport race car – it will still slide but a judicious application of power gets the rear back in line and following the front wheels again if you overcook it. Marvellous fun.
And now the star of the day – the new Clio Cup. A wider front and rear track plus less weight sound ideal modifications, but is it noticeable on the track? YES! With more stability through the corners, increased levels of rear end grip and just a little bit more go on the straights, this car is pulling a few more revs everywhere and can be turned into the corners with just a little more speed. Its most noticeable through the last corner – a very fast right-hand sweeper where both 172’s will go through with the foot flat on the floor and the left foot just brushing the brake to keep the nose turned in, but the Cup can be turned in without as much of a lift and consequently will go through in fourth gear rather than being at the top end in third.
This car will be great fun on the roads and a complete blast on track days with a chuckable chassis and a super-sweet engine. Would I pay more for a Clio Cup over the standard 172? Yes. But I don’t have to because Renault are going to sell it for less! I want one.
Lap Times
Heres what happened when we strapped our test gear onto all the Clios. Rick set the benchmark in his V6 racer, which screamed around the Autodrome’s West circuit (complete with a much slower ‘Pif-Paf’ chicane than when we used it for our track day car of the year feature) in 1.17.90. The combination of slicks, 285bhp and staggering brakes predictably make it by far the fastest of the bunch.
The Cup racer was hampered by a lower than normal rev limit (6000rpm rather than 8000rpm) and road tyres which meant it couldn’t get near the flame-spitting V6. It broke the tape at 1.24.95. The big grudge match was yet to play out though. The road cars were sure to be closely matched, but which would prove the fastest?
First up was the 172. Pearson loved it – more so than the restricted and very tail happy racer and laid down the gauntlet for the Cup and the V6 with a time of 1.28.85. The fast fleet V6 should have the power and brakes to eclipse it but extracting a fast time is like walking a tightrope. Sure enough within half a lap the V6 rotates through the Club chicane. Undeterred, Pearson stays committed for another three laps. The last flying lap is right on the ragged edge and yields an impressive time of 1.28.45 – pipping the 172 by four tenths.
The Cup feels faster than both and Pearson goes out to settle the debate. The result is stunning. Visibly faster than the 172 and allowing so much more commitment than the knife-edge V6 through rapid direction changes, the cup blows both into the weeds. Its time of 1.26.30 vindicates Renault UK’s track day aspirations. If you’ve got a Cup on order you should be very happy indeed.
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