Cup - Down on power

[davM]

I picked up my new 172cup yesterday, meaning I now own 2. The new addition is completely st'd except a ktec stealth and has no climate control, unlike my old one that had it. I also have a decat, AAS exhaust and rstuner on the old one.

However, the new addition seems to be massively down on power compared to the old beast and not something a decat/map is going to make up. The only thing I'm thinking is that it has recently had it's cam/aux belt change so could the timing be off? If this was the case - how would I know? Also, is it an easy problem to fix or would it need another timing belt change?

 

[The Boosh!]

check for tippex on the belt

 

[davM]

Cant see any. Can i move the belt without starting the engine?

 

[The Boosh!]

can you not just turn it round? im no expert at all matey but i read on here that someone had the same problem of you. he checked the belt and it had tippex on it (classic bodge job apparently)... He RR'd his car and it was only kicking out 140 BHP instead of 172 (ish)... Turns out it was a dodgy belt fitting.. timing was out. got it fixed then it was fine... other than that not a clue im sure other people on here wil know more

 

[davM]

I see. Who was the member on here?

 

[Chrisjk]

Burp i think

 

[bmh.01]

Its happened to a couple of people now, its what happens when they get done without the correct locking tools.

First thing i'd do is to take the upper left engine mount off and the top cam cover and look for any tippex marks on the cam pulleys. The only 100% to check would be to pin the crank and check if the slots in the ends of the cams are level, although you'll need two new coreplugs for the ends of the head first as you have to prise (and ruin) the old ones.

 

[bmh.01]

Where you pin the crank: http://gallery.getflat.co.uk/v/My_C...ambelt/DSC00245.JPG.html?g2_imageViewsIndex=2

Slots in cams should be level like so: http://gallery.getflat.co.uk/v/My_C...ambelt/DSC00243.JPG.html?g2_imageViewsIndex=2

http://gallery.getflat.co.uk/v/My_C...ambelt/DSC00249.JPG.html?g2_imageViewsIndex=2
You can see the tippex marks i've made there on the head/cam pulley you need to check for these, although the renault manual specifies that you make the pulleys like so as part of checking the tension so the only concrete way is probably to pin the crank. One of the cams is probably a tooth out. And its a new cambelt job to sort it i'm afriad, was the tensioner and two idlers replaced previously? Or just the belt?

 

[davM]

Just the belt as far as I'm aware mate. Where abouts is nuneaton? I wouldn't know where to start with this tbh

 

[RSTuning]

Our car was also 144 with a superchip lol.

The timing was out by 2 teeth on the inlet and 1 on the exhaust.

 

[bmh.01]

A long way away from you unfortunately otherwise i'd help. Just the belt isn't really a proper job either tbh, the idlers and tensioner can fail just as easily as the belt can. If the timing is out then its going to need the cambelt doing all over again, and tbh on just a belt change I could never quite trust it.

If it feels reasonably down on power then i'd go with the possibility of the timing being out as the first port of call. It drops them down to about 140bhp iirc.

 

[Peperami]

Timing was off on mine and the tuner used the locking tools. Christ knows :S

 

[bmh.01]

Timing was off on mine and the tuner used the locking tools. Christ knows :S

Can't see how that'd happen tbh, unless he pinned the crank in a balancing hole by accident its and easy mistake.

 

[Mark One]

I'm still not sure whether to do my own cambelt.
The FF cars are such a b**ch to do. what's the best ways to improve access. Is there anyone that would lend me the locking tools?

 

[Jay Payne]

As said mine was out at gave 117bhp @wheels 142bhp @fly. was smooth but just didnt have the performance.
If ud not driven others youd never know.

It actually ticked over smoother than it does now, it didnt have the usual (slightly lumpy) idle that they normaly have

Tip-ex marks are not always a sign of it being done wrong as the Renault manual sugests marking the pulleys with ity to see when u have done a complete rotation.


Point8, they are a s**t job (ive done 2 now, my old one and current one) no real way to make it easier, just take as much off as poss

 

[davM]

I have an invoice for 1x Cambelt @ £98.71 before vat and p/s belt @ £12.18 before vat and 6hours labour cost. Would this mean just the belt has been done or?

It was done at EK Motors, Littleborough, Lancashire if anyone knows it?

Might need to get someone to look at it then as it does seem noticably down on power and it sounds a little difficult for me!

 

[RSTuning]

Undo the pulleys and spin the cam with the bottom end locked.

 

[sideways danny]

Our car was also 144 with a superchip lol.

The timing was out by 2 teeth on the inlet and 1 on the exhaust.

this statement worries me as you dont use teeth to time these engines at all

Timing was off on mine and the tuner used the locking tools. Christ knows :S

can happen if you tighten in the wrong sequence and dont jam the flywheel while tightening the crank pulley bolt, can take a couple of attempts to get it perfect,

 

[bmh.01]

I'm still not sure whether to do my own cambelt.
The FF cars are such a b**ch to do. what's the best ways to improve access. Is there anyone that would lend me the locking tools?

The pictures I posted show you what I removed to do mine (well the gallery does) you could go further and remove the top crossmember if you wanted although I didn't want to break the paint so worked around it. You will 100% need a full set of ratchet and cranked spanners or don't even start. And don't think you'll be able to torque anything up barring the crank pulley bolt everything else goes to FT.

I'd say go for it if your competant, it kept me entertained for about 6 hours or so.

 

[RSTuning]

this statement worries me as you dont use teeth to time these engines at all

Timing was off on mine and the tuner used the locking tools. Christ knows :S

can happen if you tighten in the wrong sequence and dont jam the flywheel while tightening the crank pulley bolt, can take a couple of attempts to get it perfect,

That was a statement to say how far it was out by the eye!