Cup racer suspension owners questions please

[Neilb84]

I have fitted full cup racer suspension ie wishbones hubs and struts.
Im worried about the length of the driveshafts with the standard jc5 box and I don't really have the money to buy a sadev and shafts

Are any of you running the jc5 box with this set up ?


Only thing I can think of is getting the shafts extended ?

 

[MG cup]

Yeah I am running the same setup on my car that I'm building but have yet to get my shafts. Sadev shafts will be of no use to you as there both male splined on the inside to fit the sadev diff. Noos on here has fitted Renault shafts to his 172 Cup which are 7mm longer than 172 cup shafts (the longest Clio type) but it won't work by my measurements (he has yet to drive the car in anger afaik)

If yours is a full fat car then you might get away with Cup shafts, I think I am going to get Drivelink to friction weld my shafts longer. There prices are quite reasonable

 

[Neilb84]

We use drivelink at work for our lotus audi conversions
Ill get a price from euros tomorrow on cup shafts as mine is a full fat

or do I just buy a sadev box lol

 

[MG cup]

We use drivelink at work for our lotus audi conversions
Ill get a price from euros tomorrow on cup shafts as mine is a full fat

or do I just buy a sadev box lol

I have thought about it many times and came close once. TBH your better selling the car and getting a cup racer money wise if thats the route you want to go.

Its not just the Box, its the subframe, engine mounts, flatshift control etc. It gets really pricey quick, box and lever will set you back circa 5k ( usually with no definitive history) then all the gubbings, if you buy from anyone who knows what there worth your looking at circa 7k all said and done.

 

[Neilb84]

I have thought about it many times and came close once. TBH your better selling the car and getting a cup racer money wise if thats the route you want to go.

Its not just the Box, its the subframe, engine mounts, flatshift control etc. It gets really pricey quick, box and lever will set you back circa 5k ( usually with no definitive history) then all the gubbings, if you buy from anyone who knows what there worth your looking at circa 7k all said and done.

I know it seems silly to buy the box and bits and not the whole car.
I don't want to sell mine either so really have to make this work it can be done I won't be racing till next year now so have time the only other thing I thought of is sadev shafts and diff fitted to jc5

 

[Neilb84]

Just had another idea I know the cup racer hubs are based on Laguna ones, the mk1 Laguna 2.0 used a jc5 box maybe worth giving those a shot ?

 

[NorthloopCup]

Drivers side shaft copes with the extra track width admirably well. It's the n/s that throws a wobbler. I know - I've done it.

 

[MG cup]

Just had another idea I know the cup racer hubs are based on Laguna ones, the mk1 Laguna 2.0 used a jc5 box maybe worth giving those a shot ?

I have searched most of the Renault shafts that I could find with 23 spline CV and inner. Laguna's, Scenics, 21 and an old van amongst many others. The 172 cup actually has one of the longest shafts fitted to any Renault with a JC5 fitted believe it or not. Like I said yours might be okay with Cup shafts as they are longer than your full fat shafts because the Cup's have the subframe drilled different to give wider 'static' track (before the wheels go on)

Drivers side shaft copes with the extra track width admirably well. It's the n/s that throws a wobbler. I know - I've done it.

On a cup mate? And have you driven it in anger? I wouldn't be happy racing on my Cup shafts tbh, by my measurements you need 20mm n/s and around 25mm o/s for the float to be right.


This is what Noos sent me but is yet to give the car any torture.

Right hand side from a laguna 1 MK2 2.0l (f4r) not the volvo 2.0l

http://www.oscaro.com/cardan-rca-fra...n-3786362-13-p

if you have the shaft bering on your engin eit need to go....

Left hand side from a Laguna 1 MK1 2.2D

http://www.oscaro.com/cardan-rca-fra...n-3786346-13-p

It should work... but do not trust it and check that your tripod sit about the middle of it's housing.






My pictures of where they sit when butted up the back of the hub.

​

 

[Neilb84]

Drivers side shaft copes with the extra track width admirably well. It's the n/s that throws a wobbler. I know - I've done it.

yep same on mine
what shaft did you use then ?



Might take a punt on the Laguna one as can get new one for 20 delivered

 

[NorthloopCup]

yep same on mine
what shaft did you use then ?



Might take a punt on the Laguna one as can get new one for 20 delivered

Laguna shaft used on n/s which is 700mm long opposed to the 660 of the original cup one. For the drivers side shaft I spaced the cv joint 5mm off the back of the hubs as well but you need to modify the original hub nuts. If you wanted to you can put a spacer on the g/box where the o/s shaft goes on as well, but no more than 5mm. Its a pita tbh, but cheaper than having custom shafts made up.
​
Also, FYI the cup o/s shaft is the longest one you can get.

Swede, yeah car got given a reasonable amount of abuse. It was whilst I was doing some testing for the roll centre stuff.

 

[MG cup]

Laguna shaft used on n/s which is 700mm long opposed to the 660 of the original cup one. For the drivers side shaft I spaced the cv joint 5mm off the back of the hubs as well but you need to modify the original hub nuts. If you wanted to you can put a spacer on the g/box where the o/s shaft goes on as well, but no more than 5mm. Its a pita tbh, but cheaper than having custom shafts made up.
​
Also, FYI the cup o/s shaft is the longest one you can get.

Swede, yeah car got given a reasonable amount of abuse. It was whilst I was doing some testing for the roll centre stuff.

Where are you measuring your shafts from mate, I have 650mm N/S and 740mm O/S and that's with the shaft stood upwards on the ground and fully compressed. Measure from the ground to the tip of the threads, that's how a shaft should be measured.

I'm guessing your measuring from the ground to the mating face on CV that touches the hub with the shaft in its floating position?

 

[NorthloopCup]

Where are you measuring your shafts from mate, I have 650mm N/S and 740mm O/S and that's with the shaft stood upwards on the ground and fully compressed. Measure from the ground to the tip of the threads, that's how a shaft should be measured.

I'm guessing your measuring from the ground to the mating face on CV that touches the hub with the shaft in its floating position?

I've measured it fully from end to end mate, but uncompressed on the o/s shaft. I'll re-measure the o/s again fully compressed if you want mate and also the n/s shaft.

Be interesting to compare results as I'm not entirely convinced the frenchies had dedicated parts for these cars tbh. There's 3 different types of inner cv boot ffs!! I mean come on? Really? How hard can it be to just have one type of boot!!!!

Its also worth noting that I've seen different cv joints as well, ie, different design and length (as in how far it sticks out the back of the hub)

 

[MG cup]

I've measured it fully from end to end mate, but uncompressed on the o/s shaft. I'll re-measure the o/s again fully compressed if you want mate and also the n/s shaft.

Be interesting to compare results as I'm not entirely convinced the frenchies had dedicated parts for these cars tbh. There's 3 different types of inner cv boot ffs!! I mean come on? Really? How hard can it be to just have one type of boot!!!!

Its also worth noting that I've seen different cv joints as well, ie, different design and length (as in how far it sticks out the back of the hub)

Yeah definitely, most of them seem to be parts bin specials and no real evolution on the parts.


If you could measure from the ground to the CV mating face too as I have measurements for that as well.


Both my shafts have reluctor rings fitted but then some cup shafts don't :S

 

[NorthloopCup]

Yeah definitely, most of them seem to be parts bin specials and no real evolution on the parts.


If you could measure from the ground to the CV mating face too as I have measurements for that as well.


Both my shafts have reluctor rings fitted but then some cup shafts don't :S

I'll see if I can get them measured today and I'll post up the lengths later.

 

[Neilb84]

I'll see if I can get them measured today and I'll post up the lengths later.

Awesome cheers

i brought the Laguna shaft to try

 

[NorthloopCup]

Short shaft = 558 measured from face of cv joint that butts up to the rear of the hub.

​Long shaft = 697 measured in the exact same way.

 

[Neilb84]

Short shaft = 558 measured from face of cv joint that butts up to the rear of the hub.

​Long shaft = 697 measured in the exact same way.

Short shaft being 172 ff
and long being Laguna ?

 

[MG cup]

Short shaft = 558 measured from face of cv joint that butts up to the rear of the hub.

​Long shaft = 697 measured in the exact same way.

I got 565 short and 650 long. I'm going to re visit this problem again this week or next to jog my memory and get something finalised.

 

[MG cup]

Short shaft being 172 ff
and long being Laguna ?

No he means N/S and O/S

 

[NorthloopCup]

Short shaft being 172 ff
and long being Laguna ?

As swede cup has said, n/s and o/s shafts mate. They're original cup shafts that I've measured as well.

I got 565 short and 650 long. I'm going to re visit this problem again this week or next to jog my memory and get something finalised.

See what I mean about them being anyhow!! Lol

 

[NorthloopCup]

Morgan do you know how many splines there are on the inner of the cv joint out of interest???

 

[MG cup]

Morgan do you know how many splines there are on the inner of the cv joint out of interest???

23 spline inner and outers mate.

 

[l.rose47]

Sorry to bump this thread but I’ve just bought Laguna driveshafts as mentioned above, but my L/H seems too long as I can’t bolt the wishbone back up to the hub with the driveshaft fully compressed? Total length of driveshaft is 705mm, am I doing something wrong?
Cheers

 

[Usr117063]

Sorry to bump this thread but I’ve just bought Laguna driveshafts as mentioned above, but my L/H seems too long as I can’t bolt the wishbone back up to the hub with the driveshaft fully compressed? Total length of driveshaft is 705mm, am I doing something wrong?
Cheers

Did you sort it mate? Ive just bought the hubs, need the lower joints and shafts though, my wishbones give more track as well so needs to be the right length

 

[l.rose47]

Did you sort it mate? Ive just bought the hubs, need the lower joints and shafts though, my wishbones give more track as well so needs to be the right length

I haven’t yet, I think next I’m going to find a driveshaft from a Renault that’s slightly shorter than 705mm...

 

[Eddie555]

02476638564

This phone number is for a Company in Coventry that are the Dealer for Gripper Diffs.. They are also a company that builds/make any driveshaft to any requirement... They can literally take your shaft and cut weld re-balance anything... give them a call...

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