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Custom lettering on radio display??



C

Chet

  5, 19, Integrale, Cupra R
The Fatty said:
do you need to read all 8 at once though? Surely you can only display 1 at a time? OR is that for the BT implementation?
Click to expand...

I'm only reading one at a time but if you're timing a 0-60 or something 10/sec would be nice.

The Fatty said:
interesting. I suppose you tried the single wire implementation on pin 1, CAN1 on pins 6/14 and CAN2 on 3/11? (I am assuming is wired as a SAE J1962?)
Click to expand...

​I only know its wired as I was "experimenting" and took out all my dash clocks when I interrupted the bus.

The Fatty said:
yes I knew that, but I wasn't aware the code was public...
Click to expand...
I don't think it's public, certainly not intentionally anyway.
 
JamesS

JamesS

  197
Chet,

Good work so far, and your future plans sound very interesting! it sounds as though you're being realistic, and have a much better grasp of the market than most of the people commenting in this thread. The simple fact is that you're unlikely to sell many of these as people simply won't stump up the money for it.

With the volume you're talking about (sub 100 per year), I think you're fairly accurate with a sale price of circa £200, if you want it to be made properly (you don't want to be hand assembling this, so low volume SMT is the only real option for you), and for you to actually make some money. It's going to require a fair amount of your time, as I imagine you'll be doing final assembly and test.

Your idea of developing it, making it publicly available, I would imagine with you selling kits for people to buy if they want to use or develop on could work quite well, as the vast majority of people on here will not be able to assemble something like this (even with all the information), and so would come to you for the kit.

As for CAN, the 1x2 has a fairly complicated setup, and that in itself is a whole other project!
 
T

The Fatty

  AB182, Audi A5 3.0
JamesS said:
Chet,

Good work so far, and your future plans sound very interesting! it sounds as though you're being realistic, and have a much better grasp of the market than most of the people commenting in this thread. The simple fact is that you're unlikely to sell many of these as people simply won't stump up the money for it.

With the volume you're talking about (sub 100 per year), I think you're fairly accurate with a sale price of circa £200, if you want it to be made properly (you don't want to be hand assembling this, so low volume SMT is the only real option for you), and for you to actually make some money. It's going to require a fair amount of your time, as I imagine you'll be doing final assembly and test.

Your idea of developing it, making it publicly available, I would imagine with you selling kits for people to buy if they want to use or develop on could work quite well, as the vast majority of people on here will not be able to assemble something like this (even with all the information), and so would come to you for the kit.

As for CAN, the 1x2 has a fairly complicated setup, and that in itself is a whole other project!
Click to expand...

Seriously? Did you see the kit posted above? hardware costs of £4 - that's for half the project minus the Bluetooth. IMO there is no way you could sell these at mass for £200 each with devices such as the Bluetooth EL327 and Torque costing less than £15. The number of potential buyers is already very small, and even smaller at £200. I imagine if he does sell any at £200, it wont be more than 10. He would be better off making them by hand (getting the PCB's printed in batches of 10) and making the MCU replaceable so users could 'swap it out' for the latest version. I know for a fact that I can make a device that can read from the ODB2 port and display it on an aftermarket screen for around £20, I can't honestly imagine interfacing with the Renault screen would cost all that much more.

Anyway, all of the above is a bit off topic and kind of irrelevant because the price will be what ever it is when he has completed the project and knows exactly what's needed.

Best of luck with it and I hope it all goes well, but I wont be buying one if they do come out at £200!
 
JamesS

JamesS

  197
The Fatty said:
Seriously? Did you see the kit posted above? hardware costs of £4 - that's for half the project minus the Bluetooth. IMO there is no way you could sell these at mass for £200 each with devices such as the Bluetooth EL327 and Torque costing less than £15. The number of potential buyers is already very small, and even smaller at £200. I imagine if he does sell any at £200, it wont be more than 10. He would be better off making them by hand (getting the PCB's printed in batches of 10) and making the MCU replaceable so users could 'swap it out' for the latest version. I know for a fact that I can make a device that can read from the ODB2 port and display it on an aftermarket screen for around £20, I can't honestly imagine interfacing with the Renault screen would cost all that much more.

Anyway, all of the above is a bit off topic and kind of irrelevant because the price will be what ever it is when he has completed the project and knows exactly what's needed.

Best of luck with it and I hope it all goes well, but I wont be buying one if they do come out at £200!
Click to expand...

I rest my case.

The hardware cost is not going to be anything like £8 (your quoted £4 doubled). Component costs alone will be that or more, you then have then PCB costs (not forgetting the associated NREs which need to be amortised). You then have the time Chet has spent developing this amortised across the parts, as well as the time it takes him to build them and test them. Also, when I'm saying the time has spent developing it, this is also testing it (reverse voltage, over voltage from jump start, each pin to +12v and GND) both time and equipment, as well as the cost of prototypes.

Torque costs such a relatively small amount because it's most probably made offshore, in higher volumes. Economies of scale have a massive effect on low volume electronics, and prices quickly drop when moving from one off volumes (which is what this realistically is), to volumes in the hundreds or low thousands per annum (which I would expect for Torque).

Whilst Torque can do similar things, it can't do exactly what Chet is planning on doing, giving him a usp, and meaning no direct pricing comparisons exist.

Whilst I don't doubt you could make a breadboard prototype displaying data from the OBD port for £20, I guarantee you couldn't put together a proper business case for selling it for anything like that little!

As for selling a finished kit for £200, well there's no real market. However, drop the price slightly and sell it as a kit which people have access to the software for so they can customise it themselves, and that may work.
 
T

The Fatty

  AB182, Audi A5 3.0
JamesS said:
I rest my case.

The hardware cost is not going to be anything like £8 (your quoted £4 doubled). Component costs alone will be that or more, you then have then PCB costs (not forgetting the associated NREs which need to be amortised). You then have the time Chet has spent developing this amortised across the parts, as well as the time it takes him to build them and test them. Also, when I'm saying the time has spent developing it, this is also testing it (reverse voltage, over voltage from jump start, each pin to +12v and GND) both time and equipment, as well as the cost of prototypes.
Click to expand...

When I said 'half way there', I was talking in terms of functionality, not cost. I have never said total cost of £8, I said £20 for the hardware.

Whilst I don't doubt you could make a breadboard prototype displaying data from the OBD port for £20, I guarantee you couldn't put together a proper business case for selling it for anything like that little!
Click to expand...

Again, I never said sell it for £20, I said sell it for £60 to £70. If you sell 100 at this price (assuming hardware costs are around £20), that's £5000 to cover programming costs + profit. Not a bad return really for a few days intense programming and a couple of days to make up a batch of 100 (wouldn't take long per board). £5000 for a weeks work, I would be happy.
 
C

Chet

  5, 19, Integrale, Cupra R
JamesS said:
Whilst I don't doubt you could make a breadboard prototype displaying data from the OBD port for £20, I guarantee you couldn't put together a proper business case for selling it for anything like that little!

As for selling a finished kit for £200, well there's no real market. However, drop the price slightly and sell it as a kit which people have access to the software for so they can customise it themselves, and that may work.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the costs of £20 are nonsensical. As i said earlier i'm aiming for a finished product. Depending on what cases I might find these may need some sort of machining. As i've said at least twice the ISO connectors are huge money in any sort of quantity. Clearly we're not all talking about the same thing - nobody is going to want a bare pcb that they need to solder/tape into the loom somewhere and thats not my intentions.

That kit above is not £4! It's closer to 20 (neither dollars nor pounds are my currency so forgive some rounding errors...)

I should also point out that it wasn't me that suggested selling them further than a small batch of 10 or so :p
 
JamesS

JamesS

  197
Not sure if your comments were aimed back to me, but I completely agree with what you're saying. The kit price of £20 was quoted by The Fatty, and I was agreeing that for a one-off, bread boarded system, not in a box, that he's described (not the same as what you're making) it may be realistic, but that's not something which anyone would want to sell. I reckon for that you're looking at, it will be circa £60 a kit (cost).

When I said you could sell a "kit", I wasn't referring to selling parts for someone to assemble. What I meant was that you could sell the finished unit, but also with the programming interface and other required leads, plus software and some documentation, to allow them to tinker with the software and continue their own development.
 
T

The Fatty

  AB182, Audi A5 3.0
I wasn't including construction of a box in my price or the Bluetooth implementation. I assumed bare PCB delivery. Adding in a box etc will add extra costs, so maybe closer to £40/50 build cost, so sell for £110ish. I still think £200 is a very high.

Also not sure why your finding the ISO connectors so expensive, have you checked ebay? Not sure what type you need but just as an example: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Male-ISO-...3?pt=UK_In_Car_Technology&hash=item257bfc5795 . Don't try and buy them from places like CPC etc as they will be well over priced.
 
C

Chet

  5, 19, Integrale, Cupra R
200 I pulled from thin air. Based on your previous estimates of hardware costs x3 as a sale price you're now talking closer to 150. Our differences are now your 50 against my 66.

Those aren't the connectors you need, it's the yellow mini ones, both male and female.
 
N

nod911

  Clio 172
Any updates on this guys? I done something similar for my uni final project for my old evo but used the special mitsubushi MUT protocol instead of OBD because alot more specialty data parameters were available and the data rate was much much faster than OBD. Im sure renault must have their own protocol that provides more information than the basic OBD data.

was great for reading knock counts, IDC, intake temps and wiring up external oil temp/pressure sensors and also warning LED's when any parameters went over programmed maximums which worked well for shift light, high Knock counts indicating bad fuel, etc.

Would love to hear the progress as its been a while, also if the code/schematics were to be made available i'd love to experiment and add on to this.
I really dont have the time to develop from scratch myself.
 
C

Chet

  5, 19, Integrale, Cupra R
I'm still working on this. It has been dismissed as a project due to me having most of it done and not enough scope for 'research'

My current plan is to get it finished to the same spec as I posted above (ie with bluetooth and fully plug and play) because that's what I want.

As I'm making one myself anyway I will offer a couple to people who are interested in having one and playing around with the code.

Hardware is 90% complete, software about 60%. I just need to find some time!
 
C

Chet

  5, 19, Integrale, Cupra R
They'll work but the option will be there to mess about with it if someone wanted to add a boot message or new feature.
 
G

GrandtourTCE100

  clio 3
Hi, very intrested on that thread.
I own a clio c phase 1 year 08
I changed out my radio hu from stock update list radio to a kenwood. I took out the wiper switch and take it apart. The knobs for the radio are out now. I don't care about stock remote functions.
Now the thing is the display shows only time and temperature. Is there any way that somebody can built a module for my display that its showing just "Renault".
I like to keep the temperature and time. Only the left part of display which doesn't do anything at the moment i like to see there Renault.

Thanks guys.
Greetings from germany
 
C

Chet

  5, 19, Integrale, Cupra R
GrandtourTCE100 said:
Hi, very intrested on that thread.
I own a clio c phase 1 year 08
I changed out my radio hu from stock update list radio to a kenwood. I took out the wiper switch and take it apart. The knobs for the radio are out now. I don't care about stock remote functions.
Now the thing is the display shows only time and temperature. Is there any way that somebody can built a module for my display that its showing just "Renault".
I like to keep the temperature and time. Only the left part of display which doesn't do anything at the moment i like to see there Renault.

Thanks guys.
Greetings from germany
Click to expand...

The update list display is different from the tuner list so nothing mentioned in this thread will work with it. I'm trying to get my hands on an update list radio/display but so far haven't found one (for free...)
 
C

Chet

  5, 19, Integrale, Cupra R
If you got a display from a tuner list car and a chunk of the wiring loom you could wire it in. The displays physically fit the same but the wiring connectors are completely different
 
l33th3tr33

l33th3tr33

GrandtourTCE100 said:
Hi, very intrested on that thread.
I own a clio c phase 1 year 08
I changed out my radio hu from stock update list radio to a kenwood. I took out the wiper switch and take it apart. The knobs for the radio are out now. I don't care about stock remote functions.
Now the thing is the display shows only time and temperature. Is there any way that somebody can built a module for my display that its showing just "Renault".
I like to keep the temperature and time. Only the left part of display which doesn't do anything at the moment i like to see there Renault.

Thanks guys.
Greetings from germany
Click to expand...

Buy a connects2 stalk adapter.
 
C

Chet

  5, 19, Integrale, Cupra R
Regarding the tuner list display, i hope to have mine finished in about 4 weeks assuming all goes to plan.

If anyone is seriously interested if getting their hands on one I could probably do couple of one offs for somewhere north of £100 ready to go.
 
C

Chet

  5, 19, Integrale, Cupra R
If it's enough to allow me to figure it out I'll build you something. Ideally I would need a display too but it might be ok without
 
C

Chet

  5, 19, Integrale, Cupra R
andy_con said:
Did anything ever get finished for this project?
Click to expand...
You're very impatient! :p

I started to write up all that I had learned but never got around to finishing it. I did come across my test setup a week or so ago and think I should try finish it up but I don't have a clio anymore so motivation is pretty low...
 
Andy_con

Andy_con

ClioSport Club Member
  clio 182
Chet said:
You're very impatient! :tongueout:

I started to write up all that I had learned but never got around to finishing it. I did come across my test setup a week or so ago and think I should try finish it up but I don't have a clio anymore so motivation is pretty low...
Click to expand...
I know, only been waiting a few years ;-)

Fair enough, would be such a great toy for the clio
 
Andy_con

Andy_con

ClioSport Club Member
  clio 182
Chet said:
You're very impatient! :tongueout:

I started to write up all that I had learned but never got around to finishing it. I did come across my test setup a week or so ago and think I should try finish it up but I don't have a clio anymore so motivation is pretty low...
Click to expand...
bump ;-)
 
Rob Clark

Rob Clark

  Trophy #267
Chet said:
I posted info somewhere else about this, I just need to remember where. What are you doing?
Click to expand...
arduino and mcp can controller board to read stalk and aim is to interface to bluetooth audio and display track listing to display
 
D

duchu87

  Renault Clio II 2002
Hello guys!!
It was death thread, but here I come with resolution.
This is my example:
Custom handle Renault Clio II display without standard radio based on Arduino
Based on:
https://www.elektroda.pl/rtvforum/topic778615.html
https://github.com/mako777/RenaultAffa2

I prepared my custom version of MicroChip Studio project to prepare Arduino.
In my scenario, display voltage and temperature and digital signal to show to icons.

MicroChip Studio packed in attachment.

Feel free to use and change on your own risk!!!
 

Attachments

  • RenaultAffa2-master.zip
    715.5 KB · Views: 129
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