dangerous cup - please help!!!!!

[jpmad4it2]

I recently bought a clio 172 cup in May 2003, it was 6 months old, 9000 miles ---- £10 K – bargain……. So I thought.



Im now having loads of problems with it. And im slowly going insane as i drive around 70 miles a day. Im not a mechanic and I don’t know where to start, or whether the Renault people are being serious saying nothing is wrong the car, or whether they cant be arsed doing anything as the car is still under warranty. The car has been in the garage three times already, and they insist nothing is wrong with it. Or if they do find something they say yes its been sorted, and that’s it. They never explain what was wrong. And then as soon as I drive off in it nothing has changed.



The problems are with the steering. The car tramlines like crazy and it pulls around way too much. The steering is unbelievably heavy, and it’s not the tyre pressure as I check it nearly every day. What pressures do u guys use? I’ve got the original Continental ContiSport Tyres on, 195/45 R16. When the car is stationary do your front tyres look to be down a little? Or do they look rock solid? Mine look as if they are down a little although I have inflated them to the standard pressure. It think it’s 33 PSI for the front and 30 for the back, as it says in the manual.



I’ve read articles about tramlining, and people have told me because there is so much torque the car will pull a lot as it looks to find grip o the road, but it even pulls when I am not even accelerating!!! It’s like having a gym workout when driving; I have to wrestle with the car to get it to stay in a straight line. When the engine is off, and the steering lock is on, the steering wheel lies slightly to the left. Is this normal, or should the steering wheel be exactly in the centre when locked? When braking the car vigorously pulls to the left. And I mean vigorously. I nearly knocked a cyclist over the other day at the traffic lights, and there was not much I could do about it. Renault & Quick Fit have checked the tracking and said it’s perfect. I have had one of those AA inspections, and the guy said its fine, but it needs the suspension balance checking with gauges, as there is a mark in the tyre where I have hit a large pot hole. Does that not mean check the tracking???



I’ve noticed a very loud rattling noise when turning sharply under 5 miles per hour over a bumpy surface. It sounds like its coming from the area around the right-hand side tyre. Also the front–right suspension creates a sound like a puff of air when you push down on the front right wing. The front-left however does not make this sound.

Could this be a worn out shock absorber or faulty suspension? Could this be the cause of the steering faults? Help me please!!!!!!



Ive also noticed something very strange with a loss of power. When accelerating, the car sometimes stops accelerating around 3500 revs, and it does it in every gear. The car gets stuck at a certain speed, and if I try to accelerate more it just doesn’t want to go anywhere!!! I have to release the accelerator, wait a while, and try again to push it past 3500 revs. This is usually first thing in the morning when I first set off to work. I don’t have a clue what that is? I’ve also noticed a loss of power too. The car just seems to have lost that ‘edge’ at around 5000 revs where it all used to happen, now it doesn’t as much. The guys at Renault said, oh we have reset the car’s parameters on the computer. What doe that mean? Is that possible?



Can you guys please help me on these issues; I want to get this sorted. I’ve got a really nice car, but its just not performing right and it puts you on a downer. I’m so P****D OFF.



If any of you guys think you know what I should get checked out from what I have told you, please tell me what you think the problems are and where I can get them checked at any clio 172 cup specialists in the North-West area (preferably Lancashire). Renault are crap, I want someone who actually cares if the car is working properly, not someone who doesn’t give a S**T.



Also where and how do you fit the flexible tube that comes with the KN induction kit (air filter)? I’ve got the filter on, but where does the tube go, and will it make a difference if its not on??

 

[Frosty]

Have you tried a different dealer?

The best judge of a car not being right is the person who drives it.

It is popular belief that non-enclosed induction kits (e.g. your one) will actually lose you power!

My dealer (Coulsdon branch of Renault Croydon) are totally faultless. The car has been back to them twice (airbag problem and power steering failure) and on both times they have sorted the problem first time. I really do rate their aftercare.

My advice to you would be this:

1) Drive another Cup and see if the problems are still present.

2) Get yourself down to a different dealer.

3) If still no result - give head office a call - cause a stink and invite them to drive the car.

Hope this helps you

Laurence

 

[geordiepaul]

Where abouts are you located?? Perhaps get another Cup owner to have a look at your car. That would be the best way to identify if enything is wrong.

Im from Newcastle if your near.

 

[Moogwai5]

saw someone post yesterday about the dodgy drive after starting - apparently in order to get past the emissions tests the ecu runs the car extremely lean until the cat. converter has had time to heat up to take out the emissions, I know my 172 does this I believe its a common problem, plus adding an aftermarket filter throws the fuel to air ratio out that the ecu is set to and so you may require a new chip/remap (I think!)

 

[jpmad4it2]

Im from Burnley in Lancashire mate. Anyone who will let me drive their cup from around this area or from near manchester would be great. problem is i have only ever seen 2 since getting mine!!!!

But on a serious note this is really doing my head in now. It just feels dangerous to drive and its getting to the point where i cant be arsed doing anythin about it, cos renault never find anything. I need a good specialist in the greater manchester area?

 

[Potster]

Im from Skipton. We have a really good dealer over here if thats of any use?

 

[jpmad4it2]

Poster....yeah that would be great. Im from Burnley. Surely you have heard of it?

Do u have details of the dealers location?

 

[Potster]

Yep Ive heard of Burnley. Id started to post before your last post.

The dealer is Nicolas Smiths
Gargrave Road, Skipton,
Tel: 01756 792277

Give us a shout if you coming over and we could meet up if you like?

 

[jpmad4it2]

thanx poster. if i decide to check it out ill give a PM on here. Then u can drive mine and see wat u think too.

 

[ortontom2]

Ok i agree with the following:-

the cup coughs a bit when cold:- not sure how to resolve but i can live with it on mine.

tram lines - yep it will do, 45 profile .....u should try a living with a focus if you think the cup tramlines.

knocking - yep i noticed that but seeing as i had no problem on 3 track days

ill leave it. think its the front dif. not sure though.

mine also has a sticky clutch, as confirmed by evos test car that needed a new clutch at 34k. (in this months issue)

seems renault may have put too lighter clutch in.

question to you though, what do you want for 10k? and its french.



flood gates open.

 

[jpmad4it2]

i need to drive another cup, see if its the same.

Wat bothers me is the customer service renualt provide. You aint heard half the story from wat u i wrote originally. They take the P**S. Not expecting a suoercar for 10K. But u would want feedback when it goes in the garage, not just oh yeah we found a problem , its been sorted.

 

[griffonu]

About the steering... of course, I dont know exactly how your car behaves, but about the steering being heavy and the car pulling around, I think this is normal. Of course, to a certain extent.

Ive driven a Megane Classic before my 172 and theres a HUGE difference in the philosophy behind the steering feedback that you get from the wheels, through the steering wheel. Basically, the steering is more precise in the 172, giving you much more feedback about whats going on with the wheels, and this translates - for instance - in the car pulling left or right quite hard when breaking on a non-flat surface, while this did not happen while in the Megane. Also, the assisted steering doesnt help you as much in the 172 as it does in the Laguna 2, for instance. You can move the steering wheel in the Laguna with your left little finger, while this is not happening in the 172, which has a much more stiff steering wheel, for better precision and better feedback.

So, yes, to a certain extent, the steering experience in the 172 is VERY different from the one you have in a family car like the Megane or the Laguna (I have not driven many other cars). This difference can - at least for me it was - quite shocking in the 1st days of 172 driving. I was ASTONISHED by how much the car pulls to one side or another when braking on a slightly inclined surface, but its just that I was too used with the steering of the Megane (which is not too soft, I might add, but its definitely lighter than the one of the 172).

However, when I switched back to the Megane for a little trip I was amazed at how dull the steering wheel seemed. It was easier to move, but I had the feeling that I was steering... in the dark, not feeling what the wheels are doing over there

I guess the best thing would be indeed to drive another Cup. Im almost convinced that youll find out that your steering is ok, its just... quite different from a confortable one Its a price to pay - IMHO - for being "in control"

-Zig-Zag

 

[monkeymagic]

I had my Cup serviced at Renault Preston when 12000 miles came up - theyre on the docks and did a good job of it - quite cheap as well. Maybe take it there and have them look at it.

Its been said that the tracking on the Cup can get knocked out of kilter very easily so maybe have that checked at a good tyre place, maybe one with laser tracking adjustment. And make sure they use the settings for the Cup and not the 172 as theyre slightly different.

The car will always torque-steer no matter what you do. Since Ive had the R-sport ECU it does this even more! You just need to be alert and have both hands on the wheel as much as poss. Although someone on here had a bolt snap on the auto tensioner for the PAS belt - do a search to find the post. When this was replaced there was a marked improvement so many get whichever dealer you go to to check that too.

Regarding tyre pressure, I run 35psi on the front since Im on the motorway a fair bit and I like it nice and hard . Have a play with the pressures to see if it makes an improvement. And use a decent tyre pressure gauge, not the one on the inflator as they tend to be a fair way out.

I also had Goodyear Eagle F1s put on the front when they needed replacing. They dont seem to tramline as much as the standard Contis, and they have better grip in the wet too. So again, maybe try a new pair of tyres on the front. Youre probably close to needing to replace them anyway at 9000 miles.

HTH,

G

 

[RAY 187]

JPMAD



My cup does exactly the same as yours, you feel like a formula 1 driver always having to correct and wrestle the car I know exactly how you feel, fed up and cant be bothered any more. I have taken my car back to the garage 7 times regarding this problem and they cant give a sh*t. Even on slow speeds it pulls all over the place, even when braking. When driving on a smooth motorway surface doing 60mph you can feel the steering pulling even when gripping tightly. I have booked the car to go back and this time i am taking no sh*t. When going over small pot holes (i mean tiny) the car just goes all over the place. I can never keep the car in a straight line and when letting go of the steering wheel it pulls to the left instantly, ive been told thats due to the camber on our roads. My tyre pressure is 30 psi all 4 wheels. Its bloody annoying, you feel like going crazy sometimes, and can never chill out when driving, you cant take your bloody eyes off the road for 1 second otherwise you could be smaking another car.



Trust me brov you aint the only one with this problem, you get use to it in the end.

 

[VX-Tony]

Ive heard people on here say that 17s help settle the tramlining - but dont quote me on that!

 

[Gary Brown]

Suspension noise is a known problem and a few of us here have had it resolved under the warrnaty - its to do with the top mounts for the shocks not being strong enough I think. Anyway, go in to the dealer and ask about "cup suspension knocking noises - AKTIS update" - the AKTIS thing is renaults internal newsletter / tech briefing thingy which identifies common faults.

Steering sounds dodgy though - my steering always feel great, and theres never any effort unless I stall it (hey, it happens, ok?!!!) at which point the power steering disappears and it feels like a volvo!!! - Have you tried trying the steering wihtout the engine on, to see if it might be your power steering thats f**ked?

Tramlining? Yeah, under hard accleration, but not otherwise; could you get your suspension geometry checked somewhere - maybe your tracking is out or something?

 

[007]

Its not the same car but most people ive given a shot of my Williams too have commented on the steering being heavy - may just be the sacrafice for a bit of "feel" my last car had no PAS so its light to me.

 

[jpmad4it2]

Thanks everyone for your help. Anyone know anywhere i can get the tracking checked using lasers? Gonna look into the AKTIS update, doubt the dingles at Burnley Reanult will know wat that is!!! Might get a new set of tyres (expensive???)

Anyone in this area with a cup who is willing to let me drive theirs for comparison? Drop me a message!!!!

 

[kefkef]

jpmad4it2, im in Wakefield if you want to pop over the tops one day, about 45miles from Burnley to Wakey, you can have a go of my wikkle cup if you like!

 

[KDF]

Quote: Originally posted by jpmad4it2 on 05 September 2003


I recently bought a clio 172 cup in May 2003, it was 6 months old, 9000 miles ---- £10 K – bargain……. So I thought.



Im now having loads of problems with it. And im slowly going insane as i drive around 70 miles a day. Im not a mechanic and I don’t know where to start, or whether the Renault people are being serious saying nothing is wrong the car, or whether they cant be arsed doing anything as the car is still under warranty. The car has been in the garage three times already, and they insist nothing is wrong with it. Or if they do find something they say yes its been sorted, and that’s it. They never explain what was wrong. And then as soon as I drive off in it nothing has changed.



The problems are with the steering. The car tramlines like crazy and it pulls around way too much. The steering is unbelievably heavy, and it’s not the tyre pressure as I check it nearly every day. What pressures do u guys use? I’ve got the original Continental ContiSport Tyres on, 195/45 R16.

Normal, it happens when you put big wheels on a small car. but I found the tramlining almost dissapeared when I switched the front tyres to toyo proxies.

When the car is stationary do your front tyres look to be down a little? Or do they look rock solid? Mine look as if they are down a little although I have inflated them to the standard pressure. It think it’s 33 PSI for the front and 30 for the back, as it says in the manual.

Yes when properly inflated they look like they are a little flat.. again.. normal



I’ve read articles about tramlining, and people have told me because there is so much torque the car will pull a lot as it looks to find grip o the road, but it even pulls when I am not even accelerating!!!

Your mixing up two different things, torque steer is when you have a big engine in a small car. tramlining is big wheels on small car.

It’s like having a gym workout when driving; I have to wrestle with the car to get it to stay in a straight line. When the engine is off, and the steering lock is on, the steering wheel lies slightly to the left. Is this normal, or should the steering wheel be exactly in the centre when locked?

Normal, the wheel will lock at various positions depending on how the wheel is turned before removing key.

When braking the car vigorously pulls to the left. And I mean vigorously. I nearly knocked a cyclist over the other day at the traffic lights, and there was not much I could do about it. Renault & Quick Fit have checked the tracking and said it’s perfect. I have had one of those AA inspections, and the guy said its fine, but it needs the suspension balance checking with gauges, as there is a mark in the tyre where I have hit a large pot hole. Does that not mean check the tracking???

Well my car doesnt pull violently to the left or right under heavy braking but you may get heavy tramlining under braking.



I’ve noticed a very loud rattling noise when turning sharply under 5 miles per hour over a bumpy surface. It sounds like its coming from the area around the right-hand side tyre. Also the front–right suspension creates a sound like a puff of air when you push down on the front right wing. The front-left however does not make this sound.

Hmm need to get that checked out I think..

Could this be a worn out shock absorber or faulty suspension? Could this be the cause of the steering faults? Help me please!!!!!!



Ive also noticed something very strange with a loss of power. When accelerating, the car sometimes stops accelerating around 3500 revs, and it does it in every gear. The car gets stuck at a certain speed, and if I try to accelerate more it just doesn’t want to go anywhere!!! I have to release the accelerator, wait a while, and try again to push it past 3500 revs. This is usually first thing in the morning when I first set off to work. I don’t have a clue what that is? I’ve also noticed a loss of power too. The car just seems to have lost that ‘edge’ at around 5000 revs where it all used to happen, now it doesn’t as much. The guys at Renault said, oh we have reset the car’s parameters on the computer. What doe that mean? Is that possible?

Its sounds like the cold start program in the ECU, the performance of the car is cut when the engine is cold in order to meet the strict emmisions regulations (i believe there is an update to the ECU)

Can you guys please help me on these issues; I want to get this sorted. I’ve got a really nice car, but its just not performing right and it puts you on a downer. I’m so P****D OFF.



If any of you guys think you know what I should get checked out from what I have told you, please tell me what you think the problems are and where I can get them checked at any clio 172 cup specialists in the North-West area (preferably Lancashire). Renault are crap, I want someone who actually cares if the car is working properly, not someone who doesn’t give a S**T.



Also where and how do you fit the flexible tube that comes with the KN induction kit (air filter)? I’ve got the filter on, but where does the tube go, and will it make a difference if its not on??

 

[anthonyj207]

Hi,

I would get the car looked at by another dealer.

Change the Tyres to cut down on the Torque Steer (I found Goodyear Eagle F1s reduced this drastically + better grip in wet and dry). As for the steering feeling heavy, I found it to be much lighter than my previous car (Clio 16V). Is there a problem with the PAS? When breaking hard (even fully locked up) I havent found the car to pull to either side, however this will obviously depend on road surface + low profile of tyres maybe? Check This Out!!!! Dont use open induction kits, there is not enough cool dense air in the bay for them to be effective. The car does tend to be lumpy from cold but once the oil is moving and the engine warmed up it should be ok.

I still get the occasional knocking noise when cornering hard (i.e. mini roundabouts) despite the suspension mod performed by Renault - the car is French, Cest la vie!

Hope this helps,

Ant.

 

[RiaP]

I have the knocking noise still after the suspension mod to, metal to metal noise it is really irritating it does it round every hard corner, they also decided to use the paint around the strut to mark out something and now have touched it up with the wrong colour paint, i am really annoyed it looks hideous, it is going in next week to have something done to the heat shield as this is what they think is making the noise, if this doesnt work they inform me that there is nothing else they can do, we will see about that, a new car would be nice or the money back.

 

[jpmad4it2]

ive also noticed that when on the motoroway if you let your foot off the accelerator there is a very loud but short lived vibrating noise coming from under the hood towards the left hand side of the car. Sounds as though its coming through the glove box. Also do any of you guys notice a sound like a puff of air when you press your brake down?

i really am thinking of sacking this car off. There is just so much to worry about and it takes Renault 3 weeks to get the simplest of things, like a rear spoiler brake light. Then when they fit it, it doenst work anyway. So they aint gonna get any major stuff done properly.

 

[jpmad4it2]

in repsonse to an earlier post, someone said try steering without the ignition on, which i did. The steering felt unbelievably heavy, like a tank. Is that good or bad?

 

[funkimic]

yeh thats right. with no engine running theres no power steering so all the effort has to come form you. this is normal.

 

[tumbleweed]

JPMad

you have done everything right with your tyre pressures and taking it back to the main dealer....

what i would do which alot of civic type R owners do is take the car to a proper suspension setup centre with a laser rig and have them look at suspension, toe in, camber etc...this may help further or certainly rule out possible problems...

Cars are built on production lines, there is always scope for setup error i think.

 

[jpmad4it2]

ive noticed that the rattling from the car also occurs when turning the wheel when the car is stationary. My dad thinks its the steering rack ratttling. any ideas?

 

[jpmad4it2]

kefkef. I will let you know soon on your offer to drive your cup. I really appreciate it, thanks. Im sure its easy enough to get to from here. Weekend is the best time for me. what about you?

 

[jpmad4it2]

monkey magic said i would be close to changing my tyres at 9000 miles, but i have done 15600. Is it time for new tyres. the tread seems fine to me. And should all 4 tyres be the same kind? Will this matter ie. contis on the back and goodyear eagles on th efront

 

[jpmad4it2]

the P.O.A. guys is to go to a different dealer, maybe skipton or preston.

Ask them to do the Aktis update checks, as this is meant to solve the rattling suspension, thunking back brakes, rattling exhaust at 4000rpm and the ECU emission thing that makes your car slow when cold!!!. I suffer from all these problems :-( . Whilst there ill get em to check the front right suspension cos the puff of air sound when you press down the wing is worrying, and no one seems to know wat the hell it is. Will these updates be under warranty as my car is a 52 plate? i.e. its now a year old aint it? Hopefully all these problems will disappear, and maybe some of the steering problems.

Whilst sorting all this out Renault at Burnley can try to get my spoiler brake light fitted if its not too difficult for them to handle!!! (second time round)

if the steering is not improved then i will drive kefkefs cup(nice guy/girl (sorry!!)) to see wat its like.

If it turns out to be my cup that is screwed ill get the tracking and all the wheel balance stuff checked at a proper place with lasers etc. If i get a result then great!

If stil no result.... get a new pair of front tyres, or 4 tyres. Which ever is best.

IF STILL NOT RESULT THEN BURN THE CUP!!! burn burn burn. Joke.

Does this sound like a good plan or am i gonna waste money this way. And suggestions would be great.

 

[jpmad4it2]

also does anyone know the security code for the radio? I guess they are all different. I disconnected my battery as someone said it resets the ECU, but i dont have the radio code!!!!! arghhhhhhhhh

 

[Jeremy Townsend]

It will be in your Warranty Book

 

[Tom]

we have been through this he doesnt have one can you help?

 

[Jeremy Townsend]

Then a Dealer can get it for him with a chassis number

 

[Tom]

there ya go mate.

 

[jpmad4it2]

so wat do u think about the POA guys from all the nice advice u have given me!!!! (page 1)

 

[jpmad4it2]

thanks guys. Ill get on to em today about that. 1 thing down, another 10 to go!!!

 

[jpmad4it2]

the P.O.A. guys is to go to a different dealer, maybe skipton or preston.

Ask them to do the Aktis update checks, as this is meant to solve the rattling suspension, thunking back brakes, rattling exhaust at 4000rpm and the ECU emission thing that makes your car slow when cold!!!. I suffer from all these problems :-( . Whilst there ill get em to check the front right suspension cos the puff of air sound when you press down the wing is worrying, and no one seems to know wat the hell it is. Will these updates be under warranty as my car is a 52 plate? i.e. its now a year old aint it? Hopefully all these problems will disappear, and maybe some of the steering problems.

Whilst sorting all this out Renault at Burnley can try to get my spoiler brake light fitted if its not too difficult for them to handle!!! (second time round)

if the steering is not improved then i will drive kefkefs cup(nice guy/girl (sorry!!)) to see wat its like.

If it turns out to be my cup that is screwed ill get the tracking and all the wheel balance stuff checked at a proper place with lasers etc. If i get a result then great!

If stil no result.... get a new pair of front tyres, or 4 tyres. Which ever is best.

IF STILL NOT RESULT THEN BURN THE CUP!!! burn burn burn. Joke.

Does this sound like a good plan or am i gonna waste money this way. And suggestions would be great.

 

[kefkef]

You should have got a 3yr Transferable warranty with the cup, so it should be ok, if they try anything on, just start shouting and stomping your feet in the showroom (i always find a little tantrum works wonders!), either that, or take your lass with you, and get her to start crying her eyes out on the showroom floor, asking Why wont you fix it, its only a year old???

Not sure about the new tyres, i havent really found a problem with mine, apart from the fact it takes more steering input on a motorway drive.

Pop over when you like, im nearly always free, weekends are ok too.



btw: I was a bloke last time i looked!

 

[jpmad4it2]

cheers kefkef. i will let u know how i get on anyway. Thanks for all your help guys and girls!!!! much appreciated