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Day One of Wet Sanding Tuition with Kelly at KDS...



  Megane R26
5am isn't an hour of the day I see very often, but my alarm was set for that time this morning to give me plenty of time to drive down to a very chilly Gillingham...


6512913299_68f89f2699_z.jpg

DSC01421 by RussZS, on Flickr


I'm very lucky to be down at Kelly's for a few days, mainly for one-to-one tuition, particularly looking at wet sanding to remove orange peel, which of course he has a rather good reputation for... :argie:


The bulk of today was spent on a test panel (scrap bonnet), talking through various methods of sanding, the differences between hand, block and machine, dry sanding and also how to correctly set up PDG's and properly assess removal rates from a fixed point.


Now unfortunately I don't have very many photos uploaded tonight, as my internet connection is VERY slow, but a LOT more will follow when the tuition is completed. However, I wanted to give a flavour of this enlightening first day.


This is the panel before we started. Note the orange peel/jagged line around the skylight and the cabling across the wall. I've discovered that it's quite difficult to capture just how bad orange peel can be on a camera, which makes some of the threads Kelly has put up all the more impressive for me tbh. This was VERY severe, which hopefully is conveyed to an extent by the pic.


6512841653_ff4dafdef5_z.jpg

DSC01443 by RussZS, on Flickr


We worked through various methods and processes, and I used a wide variety of discs and papers, but decided to sand the bulk of the portion of the panel I was working on, by hand:


6512841691_c1246c3928_z.jpg

DSC01603 by RussZS, on Flickr


This pic shows the finish after my first set with 1500 Grit by hand, as you can see the orange peel, whilst flatter to an extent, is still present, so more work was needed


6512841713_ae4738c93e_z.jpg

DSC01628 by RussZS, on Flickr


This pic was after 2000 Grit by hand, with a block supporting - I preferred flatting by hand, you get a lot more of a feel for what the paper is doing and if you have any defects in the paint, or dirt between the paper/panel (although you can hear this too if working with either method without machine).


6512841731_8382454b3b_z.jpg

DSC01630 by RussZS, on Flickr


You can see that most of the orange peel in the centre is removed at this stage (ignore the edges where it's still present, as I'd not overlapped this area, which would normally be dealt with if working an entire panel)


After 3000 grit, we can begin to see the true finish we have, and the reflective properties of the paint begin to be restored, and the improved clarity becomes very evident:


6512841765_675e39f4a8_z.jpg

DSC01650 by RussZS, on Flickr


Then, at this stage, I was shown how you can refine further via paper with 4000, or begin correcting via machine. I tried both Megs MF system via G220 and a Flex Rotary with S3 Gold and a Scholl Wool Pad, with some VERY interesting results (which will be shared in the full thread...)


Now, obviously the lighting is different as it's later in the day, but hopefully the difference in clarity is quite evident in this picture - I was gobsmacked after I finished removing the sanding marks with a machine:


6512864047_ef34f26d0a_z.jpg

DSC01671 by RussZS, on Flickr


It really was an eye opener for me in quite a few ways. I think the key points I took from today were the differences between hand and machine, a true appreciation for how time consuming orange peel removal done correctly, can be and just how truly impressive this process can be in terms of results. The finish on the panel afterwards was stunning, and nothing like I've ever been able to achieve before. Swirl removal is one thing, but this is really something else.


Tomorrow, we begin on this...


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DSC00078 by RussZS, on Flickr


Oh and this...


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DSC01525 by RussZS, on Flickr


is nothing short of stunning in the flesh!!


Thank you to Kelly for today, it was a great experience, I've learnt a HUGE amount, and thanks for reading.


Russ.
 
  182/RS2/ Turbo/Mk1
Impressive results, what are you doing on the golf, it looks pretty well detailed already from that pic.
 

Rob

ClioSport Moderator
Really? LOL! I was looking for somewhere local for ages with my PH1, never found anywhere and couldn't be bothered to drive moon miles to drive back and ruin it.
 
  Punto/Clio GTT
should never wetsand a flat pannel with your hand, always use a block. even with your hand flat you can leave finger marks in the laquer which are a royal PITA to get rid of of.

looks good though
 

Gally

Formerly Mashed up egg in a cup
ClioSport Club Member
How it should be done Russ! :)

We do a lot of sanding and polishing here. Lots of fun to be had and not scary once you get used to it I must say.

The finish it leaves it's something that makes all previous detailing feel inferior. You'll want to flatten every car you detail because you know how good it can look.
 
  182/RS2/ Turbo/Mk1
How it should be done Russ! :)

We do a lot of sanding and polishing here. Lots of fun to be had and not scary once you get used to it I must say.

The finish it leaves it's something that makes all previous detailing feel inferior. You'll want to flatten every car you detail because you know how good it can look.


Just dont do it too many times or they all end up silver irrelevant of what colour they started, lol
 

Gally

Formerly Mashed up egg in a cup
ClioSport Club Member
LOL. Indeed. It's definitely not fun at that point!

Not sure if you've seen my past threads chip?
 
  Not a 320d
Flatted an X5 the other week. Only 3 areas which were scratched mind but the finish left after polishing is great. id do my entire car but I darent do it because I dont have a thickness guage, and renault being renault will have readings all over the place.
 
  Astra GSI, 172, Golf
no offense meant but i thought wet flatting was always considered a pretty basic job.. you have the dimples/ orange peel to use as a guide to see how far you are going etc.

use a squeegee to wipe the area's clean rather than microfibre/ rags.. alot more effective and faster. easier to keep track of were you are whilst wet flatting aswell.
 

-J-

  RS2'ed 172 Cup
Would love my car going over by KDS but I would have to take out a loan the same size as a small country to be able to afford it.

His work always looks amazing.
 
  Not a 320d
no offense meant but i thought wet flatting was always considered a pretty basic job.. you have the dimples/ orange peel to use as a guide to see how far you are going etc.

use a squeegee to wipe the area's clean rather than microfibre/ rags.. alot more effective and faster. easier to keep track of were you are whilst wet flatting aswell.

It is yes. But then so is machine polishing. People still s**t themselvs about it and I suppose I once did before I knew how to do it. its not hard but there are erisks involved. Sometimes laquer is abnormally thin.
 

Gally

Formerly Mashed up egg in a cup
ClioSport Club Member
no offense meant but i thought wet flatting was always considered a pretty basic job.. you have the dimples/ orange peel to use as a guide to see how far you are going etc.

use a squeegee to wipe the area's clean rather than microfibre/ rags.. alot more effective and faster. easier to keep track of were you are whilst wet flatting aswell.

Using it when you have 3 layers of lacquer to work with is easy. Uisng it on an unknown car with a paint history unkown can be harder.

But on the whole I don't think wet flattening is the hardest thing ever but i've grown through my career with it.
 
  LY 182
Awesome stuff Russ.

Always loved KDS's stuff on DW. Love that link and at the end 'this is what paint can look like after 80 hours of work'. That's just insane to think how much went in to that car. And presumably some biiiiig £££.
 
Oh and btw, I'll be wanting to book mine in with you. I don't have time and she sits for weeks on end, so I can leave it with you for as long as you need, once the unit is sorted.
 
  Astra GSI, 172, Golf
Using it when you have 3 layers of lacquer to work with is easy. Uisng it on an unknown car with a paint history unkown can be harder.

But on the whole I don't think wet flattening is the hardest thing ever but i've grown through my career with it.

agree'd 90% of the time i have lacquered the car/item myself so know exactly howmuch i have to work with.. but generally orange peel is from an excess of lacquer ( as you know obv).. dry ( rough) spots on the other hand are a diff story
 

Gally

Formerly Mashed up egg in a cup
ClioSport Club Member
Out of morbib curiosity, how much would that E92 M3 Detail cost?

Easily north of 1k. Some of the hours put in is immense so the price tag is justifiable. Especially when it's pocket change in the first place.

I predict big things for Russ due to how he prices things. :)
 
  Megane R26
Lol, are you saying I'm a cheap tart?

12 hour days fly by when you're doing this!!

Day 2 coming soon...
 

Gally

Formerly Mashed up egg in a cup
ClioSport Club Member
Realistic more like! We already know your cheap! ;)
 
  LY R26 230 F1 Team
Wet sanding is awesome, looks emmemse Russ.

I had a go on the clio to get rid of some scuffs I need some 3000 grit though!
 
  Megane R26
It is, but also has its place.

We spent ages seeing how a rotary and foam is FAR better and more effective at removing deep scratches, for example...
 
  182 Trophy
I keep meaning to give it a go on the Clio. Not because I care about the car and want it to look shiny, but rather because I don't care about it and fancy giving it a crack.

Perhaps over christmas it'd be worth giving a go a panel at a time.
 
  Megane R26
Definitely worth trying, but I'd suggest that you're working indoor as a minimum.

Kelly's unit is very clean, with very little dirt airborne, yet you still get a load of issues with dirt landing on the panel and getting caught under the paper. You MUST be doing this in a clean environment IMO.
 
  182 Trophy
I'm fortunate in the fact that I'm doing it on a silver car, so imperfections are not the end of the world.

Most would be done in my garage, which is pretty clean to be fair :)

It'd be interesting to see how shiny a perfectly flat silver car could be though.
 
  Megane R26
It sets a fixed point so that you can assess the removal rate of the paint from a fixed point.

Have a look at post 12 of Day 2 and you'll see what I mean.

Russ.
 
Nice update boyo. Can you PM me with how much Kelly's session was? A mate of mine is interested in getting into the detailing world, but purely on a friends and family basis (his Dad has a Fezza Dino amongst other nice bits!).
 


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