DCI Engine Knock & wont fire (fuel system errors)

[dunganick]

So last weekend my 1.5 DCI 80 started making a knocking/chuffing sound from the cambelt/aux area. Power wasnt affected. Aux belt was removed to confirm it wasn't the Alternator or anything in the Aux system.

Friendly mechanic has gone to pick it up and said he believes that the sound was the plastic Cambelt cover rubbing. And this sound has stopped now. However when he has gone to start it this morning the car would not start and the battery went flat through trying to start it.

He has read the fault codes (don't have these at the moment) however they were all indicating low fuel pressure (below the minimum apparently) and showing glow plug faults. The car will run once encouraged to start and is ok once warm.

Some history of the car:
just had a cambelt done.
95k miles.
About 8k miles ago it had a knock on one cyclinder that cleared through simply running the car.
Car has never failed to start first turn of the key.

Any idea's?

I should have the fault code readout tomorrow to help out.

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

Battery could be not providing enough power for certain things such as glow plugs.

Mine plays havock in a cold morning usually, all down to the battery.

You dont have any overly load ticking noises on start up do you, and even when warm for that fact?

Fuel pressure low could be anything. Mostly crap in the fuel system plays a big deal in upsrtting the dci . Fuel strainer unit ( mesh on the fuel sender unit. )
fuel filter clogged up / injectors clogged.

Let us know what fault codes you have tommrow as it will help out more

 

[dunganick]

Battery could be not providing enough power for certain things such as glow plugs.

Mine plays havock in a cold morning usually, all down to the battery.

You dont have any overly load ticking noises on start up do you, and even when warm for that fact?

Fuel pressure low could be anything. Mostly crap in the fuel system plays a big deal in upsrtting the dci . Fuel strainer unit ( mesh on the fuel sender unit. )
fuel filter clogged up / injectors clogged.

Let us know what fault codes you have tommrow as it will help out more

Cheers! Will do.

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

Got me thinking, what do you mean by engine knock? Like the time belt had slipped making valve to piston contact, or a bottom end knock?

 

[barnesautos]

Those glow plug issues WON'T cause non start, I had all 4 glow plugs n/w and it fired up on the button last cold spell
-14.
Quick note : Dci = Direct injection and no need for glow plugs to fire up. Purely there for emission purposes (quick warm up).

Now as Dungan said fuel pressure is a factor as is the battery , let's see what codes you are getting

 

[dunganick]

Got me thinking, what do you mean by engine knock? Like the time belt had slipped making valve to piston contact, or a bottom end knock?

It wasn't that mechanical. More of a chuffing perhaps. There seemed to be 1 chuff/knock per revolution of the engine.

As above it did something similar a while back which eventually cleared on it's own.

Those glow plug issues WON'T cause non start, I had all 4 glow plugs n/w and it fired up on the button last cold spell
-14.
Quick note : Dci = Direct injection and no need for glow plugs to fire up. Purely there for emission purposes (quick warm up).

Now as Dungan said fuel pressure is a factor as is the battery , let's see what codes you are getting

Ok interesting to know. It was started today using brake cleaner. And would restart when warm but not cold. Apparently.

The car was down to the fuel light, so i wonder if it is possible some crap has got into the fuel injector system?

Anyway, i will find out the codes tomorrow.

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

Stupid moment forgot dci's ( diesel comon rail injection ) can start without glows

if your fuel light is on , get the tank filled up, its possible its dragging air in to the fuel system.

Iv done it once with mine, ran it down to the fuel light, played funny buggers starting and would occasionaly cut out whilst driving.

If he's got it going off brake cleaner( presumably he's spraying directly into the turbo intake )
then it will start. Its like using quick start.

 

[dunganick]

Shown fault codes are de061 df037 and df137

And will apparently start if you use the hand primer by fuel filter. Which my friend tells me suggests it is the fuel return valve in high pressure pump is faulty?

 

[dunganick]

Im thinking DE061 should be DF061...

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

what computer was this done on pal?

dci's run on a vacumm feed system.

its a expensive job if the high pressure pump goes wrong.

i'll dig the fault codes up for you. they all seem to be related to fuel pressure.

 

[Scrooge]

Chuffing noise? Injector seal gone maybe, injectors are a big issue on these. My old one has fine through two sets at 150k and dads work one just had them done, also done a few randomers. Also check the strainer in the sender unit because if that blocks and the fuel is low it draws air through the system.

 

[dunganick]

what computer was this done on pal?

dci's run on a vacumm feed system.

its a expensive job if the high pressure pump goes wrong.

i'll dig the fault codes up for you. they all seem to be related to fuel pressure.

Sorry, not sure what system he uses. It is a red hand held one with a rubber outer if that helps at all LOL

Chuffing noise? Injector seal gone maybe, injectors are a big issue on these. My old one has fine through two sets at 150k and dads work one just had them done, also done a few randomers. Also check the strainer in the sender unit because if that blocks and the fuel is low it draws air through the system.

Thanks, The injectors are all dry, so should be ok i think?

How would i check the strainer? Would air in the system upset the Fuel pump and cause it to throw fault codes?


Thanks for your help guys.

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

Sorry, not sure what system he uses. It is a red hand held one with a rubber outer if that helps at all LOL

snap on - solus i think



Thanks, The injectors are all dry, so should be ok i think?

How would i check the strainer? Would air in the system upset the Fuel pump and cause it to throw fault codes?


Thanks for your help guys.

take the fuel sender unit out the tank, unclip the cup from the unit and u'll see a black mesh unit. if thats full of s**t, your dragging air instead of all fuel

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

df037 - stop circuits

df061 - EGR possition sensor - EGR at maximum/ minimum
df137 - fuel rail pressure

i think.

 

[dunganick]

What do you think they might suggest?

Could EGR have any effect on the Fueling system?

Im confused why the noise has cleared on it's own, but the issue being replaced by another fault (with the car not starting)...

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

EGR wont effect the fuel system ( it can reduce MPG) but if thats full of crap or faulty , it will make the car run like crap and harder to start.

could try cleaning that out aswell to see if it makes any difference..

i think you have a fuel pressure drop somewhere, if its force feed ( ie primmed ) it'll start.

as for the noise, its abit odd.

i would check these first:

fuel sender unit strainer
EGR valve ( altho it not likely to be the issue )

then move onto the more serious gubbins, check fuel lines , injector leak off test ( when it runs )

going on those codes, you need to find out why the fuel rail sensor is indicating you have a pressure drop

OR another thing you could try, is ask your friend to do a live map on the tool he uses to see whats going on whilst it runs.

 

[dunganick]

what computer was this done on pal?

dci's run on a vacumm feed system.

its a expensive job if the high pressure pump goes wrong.

i'll dig the fault codes up for you. they all seem to be related to fuel pressure.

Chuffing noise? Injector seal gone maybe, injectors are a big issue on these. My old one has fine through two sets at 150k and dads work one just had them done, also done a few randomers. Also check the strainer in the sender unit because if that blocks and the fuel is low it draws air through the system.

Cool, thanks, it will be with another garage nearer home tomorrow as friend isnt kitted out to work on diesel injectors. So i will chat to them and see what they think.

Sounds increasingly like a High pressure fuel pump (friends guess), can you replace this without replacing all the injectors too?

I think i am tempted to push the thing into a ditch and set fire to it at the moment LOL

Sorry for the millions of questions and thanks for the help!

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

its one of those and half of the other.

i wouldnt jump straight to it being the high pressure pump yet. yes 1.5 dci's are known for it but i dont think it would be.

in all honesty, you either need it at a proper diesel mechanics, OR get it down to mick- diamond motors on here ( trader )he knows hell of a lot on the dci's

 

[barnesautos]

i wouldnt jump straight to it being the high pressure pump yet. yes 1.5 dci's are known for it but i dont think it would be.

Good advice , 90% of the time it's injectors leaking off back to the tank causing weak fuel pressure when cranking and causing none start.
The only reason it'll fire up on spray is because it has no choice to but run and once it's running the RPM is enough to provide adequate fuel pressure.

 

[dunganick]

Thanks guys. Garage is still looking at this. They have said there is lots of air in the fuel lines. They said it is possible it could be a cracked fuel line somewhere.

Fingers crossed it gets sorted quickly and cheaply. It sucks not having a car and i cant go putting 1k worth of injectors and fuel pumps into a 2k car!

 

[barnesautos]

Tell the garage to run the car off a jerry can straight into the high pressure pump (gravity feed) that will confirm the fuel system is ok or not. Also I've had injectors leaking off back to tank and throwing air back into the system, that's why you have to eliminate the tank and pipes first.

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

as he said above. get them to gravity feed the high pressure pump. thats your next step in finding if its fuel feed pipes related.

if it proves that theres a problem else where ( pump runs with grav feed perfectly ) i would say check the fuel sender unit in the tank. if the mesh pick up has crap in it , it will draw air in aswell as fuel.

then proceed to checking fuel lines from tank to fuel filter ( could be a blocked fuel filter ) then fuel filter to high pressure pump.

ANYTHING that looks to be remove-able, you need to check if any hairline cracks are dragging air in ect.

 

[Hodgins]

Sorry for the hijack
but looking at the fuel lines underbonnet i see air bubbles in mine?
This normal? Lol

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

Sorry for the hijack
but looking at the fuel lines underbonnet i see air bubbles in mine?
This normal? Lol

yes mate mine has air bubbles still. not loads but only a few in the pipes. dci's are vac fed so abit of air is normal

only the dci 100's have little to no air as they have a better set up.

 

[Hodgins]

Phew lol
cheers for clearing that up
the fuelling system seems pretty temprimental (sp) on these engines
thats why they scare me lol

 

[dunganick]

Right - update.

The car is now running of sorts.

The garage (after 6 weeks of sitting there!!!!!!) diagnosed an air leak. They replaced the fuel filter and fuel pipes (the clear ones). They also suspected the car had some bad diesel in it. Either mixed with petrol or who knows.

So the car does now run.

However....

It has an intermitent squeak similar to an aux belt noise, but it comes and goes - just suddenly. They claim to have checked and found it isnt the aux belt. Ideas?

The car is also hesitant to start. Turns over several times before firing. Infact when i collected the car the battery was flat. Could this just be a knackered battery or any other ideas?

Cheers as always!

 

[dunganick]

What do people think?

I'm wondering if the squeak could be a knackered crank shaft pulley damper. I'm lead to believe that these cars are fitted with them?

If so, if it is breaking up - it might explain the previous chuffing noise in time with the engine. And the squeaking noise when cold/low rpm?

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

my aux belt makes a noise if it sits around for a while. altho i did change the aux belt that stop it for a while until winter hit it and its now making a rubbing noise again....

 

[dunganick]

my aux belt makes a noise if it sits around for a while. altho i did change the aux belt that stop it for a while until winter hit it and its now making a rubbing noise again....

My belts have always made noise. This noise is different. It also will randomly suddenly stop.

Plus the garage tells me they have removed the belt and the noise remains?

How do i tell if the crank shaft pulley is knackered? And can i simply remove/replace it without worrying about timing etc...?