Diagnostic help! Oil consumption (Pictures included (everyone likes pictures))

[whom]

So I know oil consumption has been heavily discussed but nothing is helping me.

It has gone from:

To:

So around 1L in 2000 miles! Mostly motorway. In total it has used approximately 2.5L in the 6000 miles since last service.

So, onto my attempted diagnosis:

0 - Any signs of leaking?

Nothing on the under tray, nothing in the coolant, nothing anywhere

1 - Is it coming out the breather?

Installed "catch can".

1000 miles in an barely a dreg.

2 - Is there any smoke?

Nope

3 - Does is smell?

Yes according to a friend who was following but only when booting it not noticeably when cruising.


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So before getting into leakdown tests etc, can anyone offer any advice? What else could I try to solve this?

Since nothing has gone into the breather I imagine it MUST be stem seals? In which case the oil loss will be largely during overrun right?

 

[Wick]

Rob told me last week the only way to see if it's burning oil is down to smoke or residue on the rear bumper. If it's not a leak, then it could be using it. I actually think Renault say up to 1L/1000m is acceptable but don't quote me on that lol!!

Have you checked for leaks on the rocker cover? Although to be fair, that would be a serious leak if that was the case.

 

[whom]

Hi Wick,

I've read that figure elsewhere but it seems pretty high. The kind of number you would create to avoid warranty claims...

I've never ever noticed any on the bumper, the exhaust is reasonably sooty but not too bad. I've checked the engine for signs of leaks and there's nothing obvious. The head has been off before according to Fred who did the belts for me so I don't know if it's had anything bodged internally.

 

[lemonnobby]

renault say 1000m per 1 litre

 

[Martin_172]

my 3 F4R's (ph1 172, ph2 172 and mk3 200) have never used a drop, they say there is 1L between minimum and max on the dipstick, and my 3 all used half the dip stick between 10k oil changes, so half a litre in 10k miles.

I know the tolerance is 1 litre per 1000 miles but if your anywhere near that then its as you say, just purely a figure to get out of a warranty claim and I certainly wouldn't consider it acceptable. 12 litres of oil between service intervals?!

 

[Tigger]

I know I get oil pooling where the lower inlet meets the head, consumption is roughly the same as the OP

Oil level on the dash is always off too - and parking on a slope at different angles sets it bonkers! (even after replacing the level sensor with a lower mileage one)

 

[Wick]

Hmmm. Mine also pools slightly around the bolts under the inlet.

My two have always needed regular top ups. I'd guess between 2-4l between 12k intervals.

Strange one.

 

[MartinR]

Vvt solenoid seal leaking or cam cover bolts? Check down the back of the block near the exhaust manifold.

Do you have an undertray fitted? Is it pooling in it?

As for the pooling under the inlet i just removed each little bolt one at a time , then put a tiny blob of high temp silicone under the bolt head and tightened them back up.

Also check the spark plug wells they may be full.

I know the above is unlikely to be the cause of that sort of consuption but its something to check.

I would personally go straight in for a leakdown test.

 

[Rob]

Sam mis-quoting me there

I said that modern oils don't burn black like old oils used to, so you can't tell if it's burning it so easy. Normally by checking the back bumper, if it's littered with residue, it's an indication of sorts.

Have you checked it's not pooling on the top of the lower inlet? Very common, although at that amount I'd imagine you'd notice/smell it.

As everyone has said, that level of consumption isn't actually THAT bad. Don't get me wrong, something's not right, but it's not going to cause you any problems really.

If your images are actually accurate, (i.e 2500 miles apart) thats more like half a litre, it's below the max, and above the min ffs!

Any smoke coming from the bay at all? Just a little white smoke where it might be dripping onto something hot and burning off. Especially if you leave it standing for a while then start it up?

 

[Lal B3N]

Mine does a similar amount if not more. Mine is leaking from cam seal or rocker cover though I think. Will get sorted when it goes for belts no doubts.

 

[mark123]

Mine has always used 1l every 3k miles.

It used to pool on the manifold alot, but I fixed that and it made no difference to the consumption.
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[whom]

Thanks for all the replies guys. As has been said, it isn't THAT bad, but something that bugs me. I wouldn't mind so much if I knew what the cause was.

It did have an oil leak from the dephaser when I bought it due to retarded mechanics on previous cam belt change (exhaust AND inlet side cam seals on inlet side). That is fixed. There was but is no longer oil pooling in at the inlet/block join since the solenoid was leaking but I fixed that with some instant gasket stuff. There is nothing pooling or even wetting the undertray. I've also never noticed any smoke or smell from the engine bay.


Mark123, do you see any smoke/oil residue on the bumper?

Rob, in the past it took getting on for 1.5L of topping up to go from min to max so I reckon it must be around 1L from those photos. Either way it's 2.5L over 6000 miles since last change as that is what's gone from my top up bottle. I'm going to keep an eye on it with photos like the above to ensure it isn't getting worse (I've only owned the car 6 months).

 

[Chip-mk1]

Have you been revving it hard quite a bit during that time? If so its not a lot to worry about, if its done that sort of oil consumption while just cruising along at 80mph on the motorway though I would be worrying about the engine being a bit worn.

 

[whom]

Have you been revving it hard quite a bit during that time? If so its not a lot to worry about, if its done that sort of oil consumption while just cruising along at 80mph on the motorway though I would be worrying about the engine being a bit worn.

Well over the last 2000miles/1L of oil I've been commuting two hours a day. Always careful when cold and sub 3500rpm. At least 3 or 4 accelerations to the redline in 2nd/3rd each way during said commute. Exceptions over this time include two VMax tests, and probably 200 miles of country road blasts.

Ish...

 

[Wick]

Sam mis-quoting me there

 

[mark123]

No smoke or residue on bumper. Inside the tail pipe it is black with carbon but not oily.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Well over the last 2000miles/1L of oil I've been commuting two hours a day. Always careful when cold and sub 3500rpm. At least 3 or 4 accelerations to the redline in 2nd/3rd each way during said commute. Exceptions over this time include two VMax tests, and probably 200 miles of country road blasts.

Ish...

Might not be too much to worry about at the moment then if its taking a bit of abuse to make it lose that much oil, still not a good sign though of course.

 

[Cub.]

Lol, mine ate 2.5ltrs in one trackday at Bedford

It is poorly though OP. As Chip said, I wouldn't worry too greatly if it is being driven hard, not great that it is using some though.

 

[Tigger]

Would spirited driving & B-road blasts be considered as driving it hard? lol

 

[Chip-mk1]

Would spirited driving & B-road blasts be considered as driving it hard? lol

Depends how you drive on those roads. When I was 20 I drove like a complete tool who thought he was on a closed circuit rally stage for example. But I don't drive as hard now.

 

[sinnie92]

Mines leaking from the top near the vvt solenoid, putting in a litre here and there doesn't bother me.

And hey, atleast your oil stays cleaner

 

[MartinR]

^^^Only about £8 for that seal from Renault, Cheaper than oil

 

[mark123]

lol it will still leak afterwards and you won't be losing litres from there.
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[whom]

Well... I don't drive like I am the only person on the road, but I do drive like I am the only ME on the road. If that makes any sense?

Anyway, it gets a workout at least once a week.I've had my thoughts reassured, it's not good but not terrible so live with it!

Any thought on how to diagnose how the oil is ending up in the cylinders with me having to get it leakdown tested?

 

[Tigger]

@ Whom, did you find out what was the cause of your consumption?

 

[whom]

@ Whom, did you find out what was the cause of your consumption?

No not yet Tigger. Whatever it is it isn't severe enough for me to fix it. As such there isn't any point me paying to find out what it is. Hence the pikey magners can! Free testing yo!

I would LIKE to know, bit not that worried

 

[Tigger]

Least you have something Irish in the engine bay lol - could bring you a bit of luck

I think I have a gremlin in mine as it plays mind games with me - if I park at an angle of any description it goes down to 1 or 2 indicators on the dash **----
Park on a hill and face downwards - it will display ****-- on the dash

When I top up (on level ground) & check the dash, it will display *****-

When I check it (on level ground) the stick it's usually fine, when it's not I put up-to a half litre in.
Then recheck after a few miles + sit 10 mins to cool

 

[whom]

Least you have something Irish in the engine bay lol - could bring you a bit of luck

I think I have a gremlin in mine as it plays mind games with me - if I park at an angle of any description it goes down to 1 or 2 indicators on the dash **----
Park on a hill and face downwards - it will display ****-- on the dash

When I top up (on level ground) & check the dash, it will display *****-

When I check it (on level ground) the stick it's usually fine, when it's not I put up-to a half litre in.
Then recheck after a few miles + sit 10 mins to cool

Well yeah but if the police spot my open beverage container....

Also it looks like my car is drinking Magners through the straw

The indicator is not in the middle of the oil puddle so that's why a lean causes the gremlin, in fact it was being on a lean that first alerted me to the oil consumption as I got a warning before it got too low.

 

[MartinR]

lol it will still leak afterwards and you won't be losing litres from there.
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True it won't lose litres from there. But if its still leaking after replacing the seal its not been done right(which is hard to get wrong lol) or the seal is incorrect.

Out of the few i have changed none of them still leaked afterwards.

 

[sinnie92]

Also it looks like my car is drinking Magners through the straw

I'd be careful there mate, the police could arrest your engine for driving a gearbox whilst under the influence!