diesels are the future

[Wilkeh]

It is a fast car no doubt, and I said earlier that it will beat a Clio, but its no M5 beater.

What I said and will argue till petrol runs out about is that none of the 4 pot sporty diesel hatches can hold a light to the Clio RS in outright performance terms, mind you, neither can many of the petrols!

Diesels have their uses, and some people actually prefer them, but for outright performance, petrol wins and always has done!

Wilky, you put in a poor show against those Spanish Oil Burners, now go out and right this wrong, show them the score, lay it down on the floor!

U know what hawk... YOUR RIGHT! Next time i see one of these *machines* im gona do him, even if it is a 90year old granny on a one way street

 

[chiefsilverback]

Diesels have their uses, and some people actually prefer them, but for outright performance, petrol wins and always has done!

That argument will work until a Diesel powered car wins what accepted to be the hardest motorsport event in the world.........oh wait, they already have!

Accept it people Diesels are coming and there's nothing you can do about it! Next year Peugout are entering a works Diesel to challenge Audi....

 

[Englebert]

Audi had the rules changed specifically for them, and noteably use of turbocharger which is certainly no breakthrough.

A Lola used a VW V10 tdi engine in 2004 and did it win? I'll tell you. No!

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

It is a fast car no doubt, and I said earlier that it will beat a Clio, but its no M5 beater.

What I said and will argue till petrol runs out about is that none of the 4 pot sporty diesel hatches can hold a light to the Clio RS in outright performance terms, mind you, neither can many of the petrols!

Diesels have their uses, and some people actually prefer them, but for outright performance, petrol wins and always has done!

Wilky, you put in a poor show against those Spanish Oil Burners, now go out and right this wrong, show them the score, lay it down on the floor!

The 535d is automatic, but it's "in gear, neck breaking, motorway eating, granny hating" acceleration is a force to be reckoned with, but it's a 5 series cruiser. I'm in no doubt the M5 is quicker in every situation, but it's 7 gears, 500hp and an equally impressive torque figure have it seeing off Lamborghini Gallardos, Ferrari 360s and E55 AMGs, so that is no real suprise.

BTW, 4 cylinder diesels all slower than Clios??? Tried a 120d Sport ? Or even a 320d sport for that matter.

Golf TDi 150s and Seat Ibiza 160s both pack a hell of a lot of punch (200bhp is pretty attainable) and would probably see the 182s off. In the end though, diesels aren't, and never will be designed to get good 0-60 times. The 0-60 in 6 seconds the things like 3 litre turbo diesel audi and BMWs can get don't do their acceleration justice. From 70mph upward they just fly with no hint of slowing down.

But some people are set in their ways, I remember when I was a kid dreaming about having a Ferrari I though diesels were noisy and to be honest, there was no real reason for my hatred, just prejudice (which against cars seems a bit dumb...) Ah well. Grown up now and I for one have seen the light (through a nice black cloud)

 

[Ian_182]

The 3 series tdi's have been winning stuff for years.

ian

 

[Munson]

That argument will work until a Diesel powered car wins what accepted to be the hardest motorsport event in the world.........oh wait, they already have!

One more time...using a bigger engine with more cylinders.

Diesel definiately has a place in the modern motor car, but true petrol head drivers will always prefer a high revving petrol engine. All down to choice

 

[Wilkeh]

is it possible to get a diesel engine sounding nice?

 

[Ian_182]

I don't care how good they get... I f**king hate the word 'diesel' its just distasteful.

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[Middo]

wheres edde when you need him lol. Diesels arent what they used to be. I had a ride in a mates 2.2 honda civic diesel and it flew. In real terms they prob arent as quick as a petrol car but they defo feel it due to the torque they can achieve. They are also easy peasy to extract power from using a remap.

 

[Danith]

yeah they may be able to be made quicker with a chip for about 300. my mates ibiza tdi is chipped upto 160. quite quick. but still sounds like a tractor and pours black smoke out the back when he drops it down and it burns out clutches.
end of the day its still a diesel dog. need a car that sounds good when drivin IMO.
im not sayin diesels are p00 but id still rather have a petrol any day.

 

[Munson]

Petrol is for petrol heads, diesel is for people who have changed car for economical reasons and have the word "torque" printed on the inside of ther eyelids to try and convince themselves that diesel engines are as much fun to drive with. They are not.

I love the petrol vs. diesel threads

 

[Wilkeh]

very true. I dont think they feel fast though, u just look at the speedo and think wtf? There were 5 of us in a golf gttdi 130 and i thought we were just cruisin but when i peered over his shoulder and realised were doing 135 with another gear to go, i was scared

 

[Williams025]

very true. I dont think they feel fast though, u just look at the speedo and think wtf? There were 5 of us in a golf gttdi 130 and i thought we were just cruisin but when i peered over his shoulder and realised were doing 135 with another gear to go, i was scared

Jeeez. Have you ever driven a diesel. It goes like this; No power, no power, no power, no power, no power, no power, no power, no power, no power, POWER, power dies.

 

[Wilkeh]

lies m8, ive drove golfs, power all the way through, as much as i hate to admit it, its fastest than ur williams

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

is it possible to get a diesel engine sounding nice?

In all fairness, most people on here confuse the word engine sound, with exhaust note. You can put a Rage backbox on a diesel too

 

[Ian_182]

My mate had a gtdi 150 and had it re-maped to 188bhp and over 300 and something torques.
It was faster than my 182 after say 40mph.
Before he had the work done though it was'nt as quick

ian

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

Petrol is for petrol heads, diesel is for people who have changed car for economical reasons and have the word "torque" printed on the inside of ther eyelids to try and convince themselves that diesel engines are as much fun to drive with. They are not.

I love the petrol vs. diesel threads

What's fun about driving in a straight line ?? That's the only place a Golf 1.6 Would be faster than a Golf TDi 110.

 

[chiefsilverback]

Jeeez. Have you ever driven a diesel. It goes like this; No power, no power, no power, no power, no power, no power, no power, no power, no power, POWER, power dies.

Or power from 1600-1800RPM upto 4700ish....

And whoever said you need to constantly change gear for town driving has obviously never driven a Diesel given that they tend to produce full torque from sub 2K so you can poottle around in 4th all day long!

 

[Munson]

What's fun about driving in a straight line ?? That's the only place a Golf 1.6 Would be faster than a Golf TDi 110.

I'm not sure what the point is there as a response to my post, but I'm sure you have one. Iwas talking about petrols being far more fun to drive. Have you ever screamed around a high speed bend in a 182 at 7000rpm?

I've driven a few modern oil burners. Comfortable, quiet, easy to drive, all universally f**king boring

 

[Williams025]

Guys, I've driven pretty much all 'performance' diesels through work, from the new Focus 2 litre turbo diesel, Golfs (including TDi 130 / 150) up to the BMW 330D 3 series.

The Focus and Golf TDIs in this world can never be called fast, they are just not progressive enough, the power dies too quickly. The 330D is the only diesel I've driven that I would call quick. No way is a Golf TDI quicker than my, or any other Willams - this is reality and fact, sorry.

TDI GT150 - 110bhp per ton, 0-60 9 seconds and handles like a boat. I felt like throwing the keys down the drain I was so dissapointed!

 

[Wilkeh]

agreed

 

[Ian_182]

^^^unless you re-map it

ian

 

[Englebert]

Remap my peachy white ass.

If we start talking tuning, then you have to compare a diesel turbo to a petrol turbo.

Anyway. This thread is an exact replica of the last one, may as well lock it!

 

[chiefsilverback]

One more time...using a bigger engine with more cylinders.

But they managed to turn in better fuel economy than the smaller petrol engines!

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

I'm not sure what the point is there as a response to my post, but I'm sure you have one. Iwas talking about petrols being far more fun to drive. Have you ever screamed around a high speed bend in a 182 at 7000rpm?

I've driven a few modern oil burners. Comfortable, quiet, easy to drive, all universally f**king boring

Sorry Roy. I may have misread a few words.

Though I usually equate fast to be fun, as long as it's not dangerous. Hence my favour for diesels over petrols. I like the g-force and speed more than sound, though a have a subtle exhaust

But I think you may need some racing lessons if you're going around bends at 7000rpm... Unless you're on a bike...

 

[Williams025]

Guys, I've driven pretty much all 'performance' diesels through work, from the new Focus 2 litre turbo diesel, Golfs (including TDi 130 / 150) up to the BMW 330D 3 series.

The Focus and Golf TDIs in this world can never be called fast, they are just not progressive enough, the power dies too quickly. The 330D is the only diesel I've driven that I would call quick. No way is a Golf TDI quicker than my, or any other Willams - this is reality and fact, sorry.

TDI GT150 - 110bhp per ton, 0-60 9 seconds and handles like a boat. I felt like throwing the keys down the drain I was so dissapointed!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[Wilkeh]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

yes very nice

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

^^^unless you re-map it

ian

The Golf TDis have pretty slack suspension.

Set of Bilsteins and a remap and then it might be getting somewhere.

The trouble with most diesels, is their flatspots, and considering only 10% of owners will bother to take it for a remap, will never know what it could do. As it eliminates all the flat spots, and then gives the car a kick in the back of the head at higher engine speeds.

The only exception to this rule (from my knowledge) is the new E90 330d, which has max power at the redline, and keeps pulling all the way to the redline. Best of both worlds.

 

[Chris n nic]

Or power from 1600-1800RPM upto 4700ish....

And whoever said you need to constantly change gear for town driving has obviously never driven a Diesel given that they tend to produce full torque from sub 2K so you can poottle around in 4th all day long!

Power between those revs is fine....(although the peak torque that everyone raves about isn`t held anywhere near that full range) but how much speed do you get out of that rev range? IIRC a 130 golf/bora drops off any decent power in 2nd at 40ish....just when mine is changing to 2nd. And also people make out that diesels are amazing on fuel....but the new engines are faster than old for a reason. Our works bora was a good example.....fine cruising on the motorway but on instant reading the economy would easily drop below 20...had it down to sub 15 b4 now. You can`t have one without the other...good performance or good economy.

Chris

 

[Williams025]

yes very nice

Wilky, my point is you seem to be deluded with some of your comments!

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

Chris that must be a slow Golf...

Even my clio can hit 50 in 2nd. But I don't do that very often (other than pulling out of junctions).

The economy thing is a bit iffy. Any car will be more economical cruising at 60 than at 120.

Big engines demand fuel, that's obvious, but when you're taking it easy, you will get a better economy in a diesel, but when accelerating, although consumption will go up for both petrol and diesel, the diesel will still be doing a fair few more mpg than the petrol.

 

[Munson]

Hence my favour for diesels over petrols. I like the g-force and speed more than sound, though a have a subtle exhaust

Ha ha ha! Post of the week?

I agree this thread should die

 

[tameracingdriver]

I havent read most of this thread, as usual, most of it will be full of sh!t about how diesels are the fastest cars around cos of da torque man!

I had a guy on a recent meet who was "interested to see if i could keep up" with his chipped Fabia vRS. Without going in to too much detail, he later admitted "I couldnt keep up". This is because i know how to drive my car.

The only diesel that may beat a standard 172/182 is a Ibiza Cupra TDI, but only when chipped to about 195 bhp. A chipped Leon TDI 150 will not beat a 172/182. A chipped TDI 130 will be slower.

I speak from experience from owning, driving and dragging against these cars.

 

[Hawk]

I dont drive diesels just like I dont sleep with men, its just the way I was born!

However I have test driven a few diesels including the latest fastish ones, but I havent tested any men!

 

[TheJesus]

Sorry Roy. I may have misread a few words.

Though I usually equate fast to be fun, as long as it's not dangerous. Hence my favour for diesels over petrols. I like the g-force and speed more than sound, though a have a subtle exhaust

But I think you may need some racing lessons if you're going around bends at 7000rpm... Unless you're on a bike...

aah okay, it's making sense now. so basically you like the 'feeling' of going quick, couldnt afford to buy/insure a Subaru/Evo (delete as appropriate) and felt the turbo weisel was the next best thing... but, as long as you remap it and do a host of other things to make it 'less' s**t (it's still s**t, afterall, no matter how much you polish a turd, at the end of the day, it is what it is, which is a turd :rasp?

Diesels were designed for taxi's and to cart dogs around in, no self respecting petrol head (take note of that term by the way, ever heard of a diesel head??? nor me...) would even consider a stinkin' nasty ass oil burner as any kind of performance car. You chip them so that your not holding traffic up. Why do you think they chuck all that crap out the back that fills the road up with a black haze? The reason is so you cant see who's driving it, even the manufacturers realise the dilema the diesel driver faces and installed a James Bond smoke screen to save face.

Also, take the turbo away from a diesel engine and what do you have? Nothing, which is another point worth noting. How about I strap a turbo on the same petrol engine and we compare results?

 

[Williams025]

^^^^^^^^^

SPOT ON! But dont forget a Golf TDI is quicker than a Williams according to some. Ahem...

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

I havent read most of this thread, as usual, most of it will be full of sh!t about how diesels are the fastest cars around cos of da torque man!

I had a guy on a recent meet who was "interested to see if i could keep up" with his chipped Fabia vRS. Without going in to too much detail, he later admitted "I couldnt keep up". This is because i know how to drive my car.

The only diesel that may beat a standard 172/182 is a Ibiza Cupra TDI, but only when chipped to about 195 bhp. A chipped Leon TDI 150 will not beat a 172/182. A chipped TDI 130 will be slower.

I speak from experience from owning, driving and dragging against these cars.

True, this has been done a few times over.

I hate to speak good of a french car, but Clio really is the hottest, of the hatches (that count, i.e. not a bmw 1 series). And to beat it with a diesel round a track, you would need a weapon that will cost a lot more than the Clio. But remember, you're getting a lot of agility for your money with the Clio, but a gay top end and a rattly interior.

And the main reason you have to spend more to get a diesel faster than the Clio, is because nobody makes a small hot hatch diesel (Ibiza I suppose without too many sharp bends). I think the petrol lovers of the thread love hot hatches more. Owners of bigger more refined cars, know how good diesel engines can be, and for this reason, the diesel vs petrol thread never comes up as a general topic.

Everything has been said before. No one will listen to each other, a few of us will agree to disagree, everybody else will post "intelligent" remarks like

"I like to rev my car and not have to change gear at 4k rpm, that's why diesel suxx0rz"

Anyway it's time for me to drive my gay little french diesel home.

(BTW I hope I don't get overtaken by too many 1.4's....)

 

[Munson]

everybody else will post "intelligent" remarks like

"I like to rev my car and not have to change gear at 4k rpm, that's why diesel suxx0rz"

That's the whole reason why petrol PwnZorz tho, changin' up at da 4k SUX0rRzzz!!!!!!!11111111

 

[Chris n nic]

But thats just down to gearing...I`m sure it probably could do 50 but it would be so far out of it`s powerband that it would be pointless.

I was behind Nic in a Mazda 6 with 143bhp (iirc) and I reckon over 240 lb/ft..she was in the Cup. We went up a slip road where she could/should have used 2nd but went in third. I was keeping up at first...then I could hear the Clio come on cam and that was it...probably pulled 10 cars buy the time I ran out of gears. Yes the mazda is heavier but it felt so quick over the week I had it..until I actually tried against mine. Yes mine is modded but I wouldn`t expect to paste a std 172 buy such a margin as I did the Mazda.

New diesels are superb cars but aren`t the economical work horses of old

Chris

 

[Ian_182]

Well in my 182 i could not keep up with my mates 188bhp golf diesel.Mostly done whilst going down a D/C and breaking for islands where i caught up,but once over the island he would pull away from me again and i was giving it death in 2nd and 3rd.



ian