Disintegrating DS2500's

[Jeffers_S13]

Thought people might be interested to see the state of some 2500's after a few trackdays, 53 plate 172, BMC induction kit, coilovers, R888's all round on 15" superleggera, Volvo 440 alternator mod (no ac) and standard calipers so not particularly special (well, the nasty, dog-eared, stick-on carbon fibre effect vinyl on most of the interior trim is quite 'special' thanks to the previous owner...).

Cadwell twice, Curborough, Barkston Heath and Oulton and maybe ~300 road miles tootling about to work and stuff. I decided to have a look at my brakes after the last day at Oulton. Admittedly I cooked them in my last session of the day after having a ~5 lap do against a RHD E30 with an M3 engine (he was quicker than me by about a car length per lap!). They started to fade and developed a nasty judder after I'd guess about 10 laps. They'd been amazing until that session.

Clearly the pad has laid some material on the discs, hence the juddering, the lay down areas coincide with the ribs of the disc. The pad material could be crumbled off the backing plates with my thumb nail and in one case one of the pads had fallen to pieces.



After quick call to Fred at about 14:30 on Wednesday, I had a set of DS3000's by 11:30am on Thursday (the next day) cheers Fred, great service. Also fitted a new set of discs ready for Snetterton on the 20th. After some tweaking to make them fit and then a bedding in session yesterday afternoon they seem to brake pretty well, even from cold compared to some of the reviews I read on here (?).

Anyone else at Snetterton on the 20th ?

 

[Adam.]

Clio_stu took his off last week and they were like that. Dodgy batch?

 

[Greeny.]

You did a good job on those pads! Good work with the E30 as well, sounds like fun, I doubt he was pleased!

I won't be at Snet on the 20th but will be at somepoint this year!

 

[Sir_Dave]

No idea on the pads falling apart, but if you havent already removed your fog lights/arch liners, get it done - keeps the brakes from overheating.

 

[Jeffers_S13]

No idea on the pads falling apart, but if you havent already removed your fog lights/arch liners, get it done - keeps the brakes from overheating.

Ah, cheers, nice tip.

 

[Jeffers_S13]

You did a good job on those pads! Good work with the E30 as well, sounds like fun, I doubt he was pleased!

I won't be at Snet on the 20th but will be at somepoint this year!

Haven't been before as it’s a long drive, looking forward to it at £99, all day, OPL I couldn’t not go…

Yeah, it was great fun, had a few goes against him throughout the day and got closer as I learned the track, just too fast for me though. Finally got myself a GoPro so will be posting footage on youtube after this day.

 

[Cup_Phil]

You've cooked the hell out of those - the friction material has come unstuck lol

I nearly cooked my ds2500's at Donington - Have you thought about running some cooling pipes from fog light holes and some deflector plates just to get some cold air to the calipers?

 

[Tony Hunter]

NOW, if these were EBC's everybody would be saying they are sh1t etc what would you expect la la la,

See it happens to other makes as well. Bet nobody starts slating these ds2500 next brake pad discussion.

 

[Jeffers_S13]

You've cooked the hell out of those - the friction material has come unstuck lol

I nearly cooked my ds2500's at Donington - Have you thought about running some cooling pipes from fog light holes and some deflector plates just to get some cold air to the calipers?

Yes, I was REALLY trying, I went straight through Hislop's twice. Will see how I get on regards fitting ducting and stuff, I haven't got time now before Snetterton as I've got to fix my 406 towing hack (hoping its just the EGR valve) or I'm gonna have to drive the Clio all the way there and back.

 

[Nick172Cup]

NOW, if these were EBC's everybody would be saying they are sh1t etc what would you expect la la la,

See it happens to other makes as well. Bet nobody starts slating these ds2500 next brake pad discussion.

Exactly my thoughts. Much like the CL range got slated.

 

[Tony Hunter]

Sheep.

 

[Nick172Cup]

Sheep.

Stupid sheep at that!

 

[Stu.]

Did you fit these from new? How many miles have been coverd on them? I'll stick some pics of mine up later on. They were much worse, but were a good year and a bit old on the car with a few track days on them.

 

[Cup_Phil]

NOW, if these were EBC's everybody would be saying they are sh1t etc what would you expect la la la,

See it happens to other makes as well. Bet nobody starts slating these ds2500 next brake pad discussion.

With all due respect though Tony - EBC Green Stuff are about as much use as putting thinly slized cheddar in your calipers
The more track orientated stuff they do is ok though

 

[Jeffers_S13]

Did you fit these from new? How many miles have been coverd on them? I'll stick some pics of mine up later on. They were much worse, but were a good year and a bit old on the car with a few track days on them.

Fitted last February, bought from Fred. Not sure on mileage without looking at the clock, looking at previous MOT and doing some sums, nearly all covered on those trackdays.

 

[Jeffers_S13]

With all due respect though Tony - EBC Green Stuff are about as much use as putting thinly slized cheddar in your calipers
The more track orientated stuff they do is ok though

Yes, I had some in my 200SX, cooked them without hardly trying on the road, smoke, judder etc very un-impressed, never bought a set since and probably never will. I think I just pushed these 2500's beyond their operating temp range, so to be expected in my opinion. I am in no way saying Ferodos are rubbish, it's down to driving style as has been said in many of the other brake threads on here, think my 'style' needs some improvement...

 

[Sir_Dave]

Have you thought about running some cooling pipes from fog light holes and some deflector plates just to get some cold air to the calipers?

If you dont have fog lights/arch liners you dont need any of that b0ll0cks, the air just goes to the brakes, keeps them cooler. Simples.

I did experience fade with my DS2500's on track, but not my RC5+ or RC6's. They were insane, just ate my wheels lol.

 

[Lal B3N]

The EBC discs and pads I ran in my last car were fantastic, not sure why all the hate towards them....

 

[Cup_Phil]

If you dont have fog lights/arch liners you dont need any of that b0ll0cks, the air just goes to the brakes, keeps them cooler. Simples.

I did experience fade with my DS2500's on track, but not my RC5+ or RC6's. They were insane, just ate my wheels lol.

No fog lights and arch liners in my car - cooked completely at Donington, wheel was smoking, pads were dead, fluid boiled

 

[sbridgey]

I wonder what mine look like, after the last 2 trackdays I have developed brake judders by halfway through the day and have required new discs. How much did you pay for your DS3000's from Fred?

 

[Sir_Dave]

No fog lights and arch liners in my car - cooked completely at Donington, wheel was smoking, pads were dead, fluid boiled

We all know you cant drive though Phil

 

[Jeffers_S13]

I wonder what mine look like, after the last 2 trackdays I have developed brake judders by halfway through the day and have required new discs. How much did you pay for your DS3000's from Fred?

Did you look at the disc faces ? juddery brakes always get misdiagnosed as 'warped discs', but it's nearly always pad material transfer, you can get them refaced if they're in reasonable condition, costs about ~£10 per disc, but when new ones are £40 a set...

Pads were £140 delivered from Fred.

 

[sbridgey]

Did you look at the disc faces ? juddery brakes always get misdiagnosed as 'warped discs', but it's nearly always pad material transfer, you can get them refaced if they're in reasonable condition, costs about ~£10 per disc, but when new ones are £40 a set...

Pads were £140 delivered from Fred.

Yeah the faces are covered in heat spots, and yeah I know it was probably caused by the pads being very hot whilst stationary and material transferring.

That's a good price for the pads.

 

[Tony Hunter]

With all due respect though Tony - EBC Green Stuff are about as much use as putting thinly slized cheddar in your calipers
The more track orientated stuff they do is ok though

Who mentioned a colour, I have never tried any type of pauper style pads, but the haters just slate EBC full stop. We race on them, and they are fine.

This thread will soon be forgotten, and not get dragged up every time somebody wants advice on pads as in EBC case.

Yes they did have issues at one time with the company that put them together, so they bought said company, and now do it al in house.

 

[KevF182]

The EBC discs and pads I ran in my last car were fantastic, not sure why all the hate towards them....

I'ts an easy forum habit. it seems. I've used EBC Yellow on two of my cars in the past few years with great results in fade resistance and better feel. No idea if they are any good compared to mega-£££ pads but I was impressed. Waiting to try their blues on the clio which seem a good all rounder at a good price.

 

[Jay Payne]

As Tony says EBC have been brilliant for us. Yellows or Blues if your going to drive properly tho. I had a set of 2500's for trackdays and didnt think they were much good. Did exactly the same as the ones in the OP.

 

[Fred@BTM]

EBC's are fine if your going slowly

you've simply cooked those DS2500's, they are the bottom of the range motorsport pad and not suitable for more advanced drivers (i bet you got them that hot they were binding slightly when hot, hence the shim removal and back plates need filing down so you have some float)

 

[Tony Hunter]

EBC's are fine if your going slowly

Yeah right.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Yes they did have issues at one time with the company that put them together, so they bought said company, and now do it al in house.

That explains a lot - a mate of mine went through 4 sets of expensive EBC pads and they all fell apart. Unfortunately I think those problems were very damaging to their reputation

We all know you cant drive though Phil

EBC's are fine if your going slowly

you've simply cooked those DS2500's, they are the bottom of the range motorsport pad and not suitable for more advanced drivers (i bet you got them that hot they were binding slightly when hot, hence the shim removal and back plates need filing down so you have some float)

*ahem*

 

[JackJack]

Jay/Tony out of interest how come you don't use 2500s or pf97 and stuff like that?

 

[Nick172Cup]

Jay/Tony out of interest how come you don't use 2500s or pf97 and stuff like that?

Because the DS2500's are poor and overpriced and they don't use PF/CL and they are too aggressive for their style of racing iirc.

 

[sbridgey]

I wouldn't call DS2500's poor, they are a very good pad for the road/occasional track days, its only when pushing it to the limit on track they have issues, but I think they should really be a sub £100 pad.

 

[Nick172Cup]

I wouldn't call DS2500's poor, they are a very good pad for the road/occasional track days, its only when pushing it to the limit on track they have issues, but I think they should really be a sub £100 pad.

That's the reason they're poor, the price and the fact they crumble like mad at a small amount of track time. I personally rate EBC bluestuffs over them everyday day and they're near half the price! I remember seeing Sir_Daves DS's when we were swapping pads about and I was genuinely shocked!

 

[SBV116]

Baggers used to ruin a set of ds2500 in a day at oulton, you were lucky to get 2 days out of them, he was hardcore though!!!

 

[Fred@BTM]

That's the reason they're poor, the price and the fact they crumble like mad at a small amount of track time. I personally rate EBC bluestuffs over them everyday day and they're near half the price! I remember seeing Sir_Daves DS's when we were swapping pads about and I was genuinely shocked!

and CL don't fall apart do they Nick?? Sam (British GT racing driver donchaknow ) doesn't crumble DS2500's and he drives quicker than most, problems arise due to the driver, plain and simple! Some people i've been out with basically emergency stop at every braking zone, you'll melt even carbon ceramics doing that LOL!

 

[Cup_Phil]

DS2500's aren't poor - they're perfect for what they're designed for - road and occasional track. They brake well from cold which is essential on a road car but still cope fairly well with track abuse.
If you cook any brakes they're gonna die

If you're really hammering a track session then you should really be on dedicated track pads like Jay/Tony are - it's too much to expect from road pads

 

[Bluebeard]

I've run 250's in all my clio's and never had a problem.

 

[Nick172Cup]

and CL don't fall apart do they Nick?? Sam (British GT racing driver donchaknow ) doesn't crumble DS2500's and he drives quicker than most, problems arise due to the driver, plain and simple! Some people i've been out with basically emergency stop at every braking zone, you'll melt even carbon ceramics doing that LOL!

My CL's didn't Fred, still want to pipe on about a bad batch that happened years ago? Might as well bring up EBC's, AST's and that lot then when they 'were' s**t.

 

[Fred@BTM]

they still are LOL!

James' AST failed on THE FIRST OUTING, i've had 3 sets of CL fall apart this year, and EBC's - meh (although the orangestuff is good!)

 

[Nick172Cup]

they still are LOL!!!

If that's the case then, then like you said it must be the driver!

Still doesn't change my opinion on them. Still overpriced for what they are.