EH?. . . WHAT?... Sound deadening.

[frayz]

It should be dry in there, never seen mine wet anyway

The bass trap tile is layer 3 in that location anyway with the super liner directly under it. So I don’t see how it can form condensation in there as it would need moisture and a heat source. I’ve only ever seen a few drips ever find their way in from the rubbing strip fixing holes. It’s all Dynax coated down there anyway and the drains are clear.

 

[frayz]

Made a start on the doors today. The first time these doorcards have ever been taken off, they were super tight and were pretty grubby behind. Fully lined with Dodo 1.8mm Hex, then lined with Dodo Superliner. I double foam lined behind the speaker area.
Interior skin was particularly buzzy so I’ve used some 2mm Noico here, paying particular attention to keep the drains clear.

Upgraded the speakers to some Focal AC130s while I’m here and used some plug adapters so I’m not cutting or altering the original harness. Annoyingly Renault only use 2 fasteners for the OEM speaker so I have ordered more fittings from the dealer to secure these at all 4 locations.

The difference in how the door feels and sound when opening and closing now is massive. It’s very time consuming, but worth it.

Just got the other door and cabin to do now, then I can fit the crossovers, tweeters and other supporting bits.

 

[MLB]

I've seen a couple of side by side comparisons now but ever time I am amazed by the difference between the OEM and Focal speakers.

And hereby thanking you in advance for the detailed write up including pictures as I am just going to copy what you're doing at some point!

 

[frayz]

Completed the passenger door this morning, using the exact same materials and method.
Then on my way to work, I re run the same test.
Same app, same road, cruise on at 50mph. It sure doesn't look pretty but it makes a bloody big difference inside the car. Id loved to have been able to do the whole car in one go and have a side by side comparison.

The image shows the untreated car, rear cabin & boot floor. Then lastly, the above plus the doors. Obviously the speakers have been upgraded but the clarity is significant and I'm running the volume at a lower number than before. That's even before I've added an amplifier.

 

[MLB]

Brilliant results there!

How did you decide where to put the hex liner and where not? Or just a case of cover as much as possible without going overboard?

 

[frayz]

Brilliant results there!

How did you decide where to put the hex liner and where not? Or just a case of cover as much as possible without going overboard?

The experts recommend covering 50-75% of the panels and focus on the large flat surfaces. Areas that have a swage or return in them will be mechanically more ridged so less likely to resonate. I worked my way around the doors knocking the panels to hear what had the most sound transmission and focussed on those.
I used the lighter stuff on the areas thats i thought i could get away with and the heavier stuff on the bits that really buzzed. The outer door skin is nice, open and flat with a single 10x8" piece of sound deadening from the factory, nothing more.
The centre of the outer skin has a support bra running through, so i id all i could get to above and below. Then covered in the 7mm superliner, again, as much as i could sensibly get to. Just make sure you leave all the drainage holes open and easy to get to.
The inner skin is really flimsy and flexible, so i chose to use 2mm on here. You'd think there wasn't much difference between 1.8and 2mm, but the 2mm stuff is noticeably heavier. I focussed on all the areas that really do move and then paid particular attention to the speaker apertures.
Most of it educated guess work, but you only have to tap the panels before and after to hear how dramatic the change is.

 

[frayz]

Check this video at 2.40min

 

[MLB]

Ah I hadn't realised you got 2 mm as well as 1.8mm and 7mm.

So you used 1.8 hex for most of the car, 2mm for the inside parts of the doors and 7mm on top in the doors and rear quarters?

Good video that, works well on that piece of metal and what a difference when he knocks on those panels!

 

[frayz]

Ah I hadn't realised you got 2 mm as well as 1.8mm and 7mm.

So you used 1.8 hex for most of the car, 2mm for the inside parts of the doors and 7mm on top in the doors and rear quarters?

Good video that, works well on that piece of metal and what a difference when he knocks on those panels!

Yep, i didnt initially buy the 2mm Noico, Dodo and Silent Coat were out of stock and i wanted it on the quick so used Amazon prime lol.
You could probably get away with using 1.8mm everywhere if you just want to buy one deadening product. Of the 2 products, the Dodo is a little nicer to use than the Noico, but really there is very little difference. The thinner sheets are also nice to work with in that they form to panels and shapes easier. Using a hairdryer or heat gun is a must as it really allows the deadening to shape nicely. You'll also need a hard roller and some heavy duty plastic tools to smooth areas that the roller cant get to.
The 7mm super liner i did think initially wasn't going to do a great deal but ive been really impressed with how nice it makes the interior feel.
Just the cabin floor left to do now, but thats a seats out job so need to set aside some time for that one.

 

[MLB]

What kind of heavy duty plastic tools would you recommend? I've got a full set of trim removal tools, not sure if that would work?

Looks like a time consuming job anyway, even without taking the seats out!

 

[frayz]

What kind of heavy duty plastic tools would you recommend? I've got a full set of trim removal tools, not sure if that would work?

Looks like a time consuming job anyway, even without taking the seats out!

That's the worst part, the time. Its very very time consuming, so doing it in little segments makes it a bit more bearable. It would be nice if my car wasn't a daily and i could strip it of all panels and trim and just do it all from start to finish.

Yes that's perfect, I've got a full set of plastic trim tools that are nice and hardy for pushing deadening down and burnishing the radiused edges. The roller is great for places like the boot floor and large flat panels, but its a cumbersome item to get into the doors in some locations so the trim tools work perfectly. The back of a good smooth screwdriver handle also works well for some areas.

It also depends how fussy you are and how neat you want to try and keep it. If you dont care about weight at all, you can just go mental and flat panel all of it. But doing so would use alot of product and probably add 2-3x more weight that isnt really required. If i have foam left over i'll add more in key areas.

 

[Clio_fool]

According to sciency people you've done a good job!

The human ear's response to sound level is roughly logarithmic (based on powers of 10), and the dB scale reflects that fact. An increase of 3dB doubles the sound intensity but a 10dB increase is required before a sound is perceived to be twice as loud.

You've ruined the mk2 Clio experience, amazing😂👍.

 

[Trojanhawrs]

@frayz Hi mate, been looking through the thread and was wondering if that's an OEM boot carpet you have? I'm sure I have a much smaller section for the boot, doesn't extend to the front seats.

My cars been off the road for a while and water has been getting in, so have stripped all my carpets back and am planning to follow in your footsteps with insulation (mine is sodden and moldy) once I've dealt with the leaks.

 

[frayz]

No mate it was made by Ambassador car mats

 

[Trojanhawrs]

No mate it was made by Ambassador car mats

Looks the business!

Do you think the 12mm super liner is likely to be too thick for some sections? 6mm seems to be out of stock at the minute

 

[frayz]

Looks the business!

Do you think the 12mm super liner is likely to be too thick for some sections? 6mm seems to be out of stock at the minute

Yeah i do in some areas
It will be perfect for the rear qtrs, and the boot floor. Rear bench it may bee a bit too much if you want the rear seats to go back in. You may also have to space it higher on the rear arches else the boot carpet will be too tight, its nice and snug with 7mm. The front doors will take 12mm but not where the glass is at full drop, but you can work around that.
To be honest, id get one roll of each if you can and then put 7mm down in the snug areas and 12mm elsewhere.

 

[Trojanhawrs]

@frayz Yeah I haven't measured anything up but I'd assume I could use up 3 square metres quite quickly. I'll put some 12mm at the front where the stock foam used to be and the boot floor and see what's left!

Cheers for the advice

 

[frayz]

2x 6m rolls should do your car pretty well

 

[frayz]

So just following up to conclude this thread since I finally did the cabin of the car this weekend.
I removed all the interior trim, seats and carpet and along the way was looking for clues to a creaking seat that I’d had for a while.
After removing the seat I’d found nothing out of the ordinary so pressed on with adding sound deadening to the front section of the rear bench and footwells. Then I removed the OEM seat spacers and that revealed the real damage of lockdown binge eating. 😅
My seat rail had punctured through and was cracked almost all the way around. I have many tools, but a welder isn’t one of them, so that meant getting a seat back in it to drive to a friends house. He’s a motorsport fabricator so had it Tig’d up in no time. I dusted it with Bilt Hamber Electrox to protect it.

It was getting late so decided to press on and continue deadening the whole front end. I paid particular attention to the footwells and tunnel area. Unfortunately forgot to get pics of that stage but did get some after I’d added the full foam liner.

I lined as much as I could with almost 100% coverage before refitting all the OEM NVH foams, felt and carpet. I re taped a lot of the wiring loom and made nice routings for the subwoofer wiring under the carpet keeping power/signal wiring separate.
Seats were refitted less the OEM spacers and now the Jon Foz bases are direct to the chassis seat rails.
Carpets were refitted with new clips and seats with new M8 hardware, but now I think I’ll swap the seat hardware to M10 as the chassis will take a bigger fastener. This I’ll do at a later date.

First impressions are another significant improvement in sound quality. Now the PMS is the loudest thing in the car, previously quiet, but now realise some of it was being drowned by general road noise. I can’t measure the sound in the car at the moment due to being on R888s now and they’re a noisy tyre as it is.

The sound deadening project has been a very time consuming and labour intensive job, but I’m really glad I’ve done it. Approx 20kg added all in including all the new audio, but the improvement in driving experience is huge overall.

 

[frayz]

 

[frayz]

Conclusion as posted in my main project thread:


Im not going to lie, it feels like its been a slog. A job i really wanted to do but so glad i broke it down into segments. To do properly just takes so much time and you can easily get carried away just rushing it as its pretty laborious.
The boot and back end took me a week of evenings, the doors were a morning each and the interior cabin was a solid day. So you would need a good few days spare to do it. Of course im using my car in between time, so if you were to strip the car fully and run through the job, start to finish it would be quicker. I also was upgrading audio at the same time, routing cables, speakers etc.

Sound wise inside now, its odd as its still very much a Clio, but the doors sound different when they shut, as does the boot. The sound of the central locking has a deeper tone to it and it feels generally tighter and a bit more premium. All of the Clio'ness is still there and there's no doubting what car you're still in. Blindfolded you wouldn't all of a sudden think you're in a modern car for example. But all of the hums, rattles and buzzes that stiff Clio makes is significantly reduced.
Road noise is down massively and everything going on is more muffled and less aggressive. Yet there's still all the snap, crackle and pop from the ITG Maxogen and PMS de-catted system. Its still all there, just a bit smoother if that makes sense.

I had previously been testing the ambient noise inside the car with an iPhone app, but since my last test, i have swapped over to my summer tyres which as anyone who has used R888Rs will know, they're bloody noisy. So any results i got this morning were purely for fun to see how much improvement had been made.

I was surprised with the following results, these are the average dB readings inside the car under the following conditions.

• Decibel X app
• iPhone screen mounted phone holder
• Same section of road - A127 (A130 to Wickford)
• 5th gear
• Cruise control set to 50mph

• Totally untreated car (Michelin PS3) = 82.6dB
• Rear cabin & boot floor treated (Michelin PS3)=77.3dB
• As above plus doors treated (Michelin PS3) =74.2dB
• As above plus front cabin floor treated (Toyo R888R) =72.4dB
• Total drop in ambient road noise -10.2dB!

Now i know the results are flawed, but as said before, i didn't need an iPhone app to tell me how much better it has made the car. A total drop of over 10dB and that's with noisy rubber on too, its made a noticeable difference to how nice the car is to be in day to day. However one issue is my previously vary quiet PMS shifter is now the loudest thing in the car and i will be forced to revisit shutting it up if i can.

All in its cost me about £140 for the sound deadening materials used and including the audio i have added approx. just under 20kg to the car.

Previous results and this mornings results posted below

 

[frayz]

Actually, I've just checked regarding weights.
Deadening was 8kg Dodo Hex, 3.5kg Noico 2mm, 2kg of Super liner. So less audio, if anyone wanted to do the same without audio its approx 13.5kg to do the whole car. I had a tiny bit left over but for weight purposes is negligible.

 

[youngarthur]

Having installed some insulation, I have removed the bottom layer, kept the KT Carpet, and now use some ear plugs. If only I could lose 28lbs in weight as well!!.

 

[HaveaCuppa]

This looks bloody brilliant and the results are pretty impressive. How is it holding up with the autumn rain/cold?

Really keen to do something similar but don’t want to risk condensation etc after chasing leaks in my car for the last 6 months haha.

 

[frayz]

This looks bloody brilliant and the results are pretty impressive. How is it holding up with the autumn rain/cold?

Really keen to do something similar but don’t want to risk condensation etc after chasing leaks in my car for the last 6 months haha.

Zero issues with condensation at all. It’s all perfectly dry inside

 

[neil a]

Who ever buys this years down the line and tries to turn it into a track car is going to have a bad day

 

[frayz]

Who ever buys this years down the line and tries to turn it into a track car is going to have a bad day

Do you think i should tell em Neil?

 

[MCRackett]

Old thread now, but if you're still here wanted to say "Thanks frayz"!

To a new forum member like myself or lurker from the internet, this kind of guide is super helpful

 

[youngarthur]

I've done some sound deadening in my clio and it certainly makes a difference to some vibration/booming even with a full non res milltek and solid mounts all round. I have a small amount in my doors, full rear quarters, underneath the rear seat bench and then in the boot. I used 30 sheets of silentcoat deadening to do the whole lot but could probably do with more to do the doors properly.

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I used a little wooden roller for application. Also since found out its a good idea to get some real heat into the matting, either with a heatgun or a blow torch but you have to be careful not to damage the paint on the other side if doing the rear quarters!

I Used the same on my R26, made quite a difference.

 

[SharpyClio]

If anyone is interested I have some left over sound deadening.

24 sheets of the hex dodo mat
A full roll of dodo super liner

 

[Clio_fool]

If anyone is interested I have some left over sound deadening.

24 sheets of the hex dodo mat
A full roll of dodo super liner

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What do you want for it?

 

[SharpyClio]

What do you want for it?

£30 for the lot?