End of the road for my 172 cup, sensible options please.

[norstar]

Afternoon everyone, my car is poorly and likely at the end of its life - i'm not sure whether to sell it complete, or strip and scrap the shell.

Can you offer opinions, please?

Clio 172 Cup 196K

Daily driven for the last 16 years, now ready for retirement, i really want to keep the car, but i have to accept it's probably the end of the road.

MOT 29/11/25

Bad Points

Suspected head gasket failure - car is for spares or repair.
Doesn't overheat/coolant level drops slightly over a few weeks - might be salvageable with a new head gasket and belts (better to fit the cams from this engine into a low mileage item).
Runs rough - coil pack/leads/plugs/injectors changed - intermittent flashing EML/no fault codes in memory
Can be driven onto a trailer - unwise to attempt to drive it home, if it can be sold?
Best used as a restoration project, or fit a new engine and track.
Passenger side sill rust patch
Front/rear bumper stone chips
1 key
Flocked dash worn.
Chip in windscreen.
Start of lacquer peel on passenger door top.


Good Points

438 Catcams mapped for 98 RON.
Timing belt/de phaser pulley and water pump changed in last 2 years.
Front pads changed Dec 2024
4 new injectors at 196k - trying to cure the rough running of the suspected head gasket failure.
Retrimmed in leather Sabelt steering wheel.
Speedline 15" 2118 alloys x 4 with Michelin PS3 tyres.
Track developments rear ARB.
Bilstein B14 coilovers - last 3 years.
Eibach camber bolts.
Gearbox refurb by AW motor works and new clutch at 186K.
Spare 16" speedline Turini alloy.in boot
Silentcoat lined boot.
Prospeed quiet stainless exhaust - standard quiet at 70 mph (centre silencer and baffled back box).
Maserati 4200 sports cat
Sony ASX 510 stereo.
Pure motorsport solid tops mounts and strut brace
Interior dash strips and window switches sprayed in anthracite/laquered.
Polybushed dogbone/rear beam/front arb
Vibratechnics engine/gearbox mounts.

Comes with

Spare 8mm blue magnacore leads
Set of standard cup dampers and red Eibach sportline springs
RS Tuner diagnostic interface lead

Car made 179bhp and 159ftlbs - with a blocked renault cat, after the 438 cat cams were fitted.

Felt much different when the Prospeed exhaust and Maserati sports cat were fitted, after the cat blockage was noticed.

No idea what it made after this, but it felt much torquier low down.

Best car I have owned - handled superbly on B roads.


Is there a market for this car as is?

Any engine experts on here who could take the cams out, drop them into a rebuilt engine (or just fit new items to a new engine) and make my car work again?

Or do i cut my losses and just buy another 172/182 - i would be happy to spend up to 6K on a 172/182 in good working order (can a cammed, polybushed, KW or bilstein equipped car be had for this sort of budget?)

I would appreciate some advice.

Thanks

Chris

 

[Brigsy]

Fix current one, sometimes its better the devil you know and spec sounds decent enough. List of repairs is not bad, about the same as most prob need these days.

Has headgasket been officially diagnosed, i.e. evidence of coolant in cylinders?

 

[norstar]

Fix current one, sometimes its better the devil you know and spec sounds decent enough. List of repairs is not bad, about the same as most prob need these days.

Has headgasket been officially diagnosed, i.e. evidence of coolant in cylinders?

Mechanic did a drop test, blue dye turned a lighter shade, not completely yellow, so i would say its on its way out and too risky to drive long distance.

Any helpful people in South Wales with engine options?

 

[norstar]

They haven't pulled the plugs yet, so i guess that's the next best action?

 

[Brigsy]

Id be tempted to take it to a specialist to check as headgasket fail pretty rare on these. Id take it to Aw Motorworks for diag and repair.

I had coolant loss and inconclusive block test on mine. Pressured up cooling system with plugs out and nothing. Heater matrix was leaking.

I have also had a cracked head on a megane. Was misfiring like feck from cold and using coolant. Still done 368hp on the dyno with cracked head😂

 

[norstar]

Id be tempted to take it to a specialist to check as headgasket fail pretty rare on these. Id take it to Aw Motorworks for diag and repair.

I had coolant loss and inconclusive block test on mine. Pressured up cooling system with plugs out and nothing. Heater matrix was leaking.

Thank you, i have just been out and found a puddle of water in the driver side footwell.

Would a leaking heater matrix cause poor/lumpy running?

 

[lee M4RSH]

If you do decide to pull it apart I’d be interested in quite a few of the parts.

 

[norstar]

Here is a short video:

New video by Christopher Lawless

photos.app.goo.gl

 

[norstar]

If you do decide to pull it apart I’d be interested in quite a few of the parts.

Lee,

Here you go

11 new items by Christopher Lawless

photos.app.goo.gl

 

[lee M4RSH]

54mm spacing on the b14s?

 

[norstar]

54mm spacing on the b14s?

They are for the cup only, here you go

3 new items by Christopher Lawless

photos.app.goo.gl

 

[Howell]

Mechanic did a drop test, blue dye turned a lighter shade, not completely yellow, so i would say its on its way out and too risky to drive long distance.

Any helpful people in South Wales with engine options?

Where abouts in south wales? I’m off to see my mate in an hour and I know he’s got a lot of cup bits in his shed. I’m sure he had an engine he mentioned last year there

 

[norstar]

Where abouts in south wales? I’m off to see my mate in an hour and I know he’s got a lot of cup bits in his shed. I’m sure he had an engine he mentioned last year there

Hi Howell, I'm down in Newport, it might be an option.

 

[ex-Chinese Dave]

I’d say keep it and fix it up. You never know what these will be worth in the future. I see that yours is not standard but I’d still keep it.

If you do decide to break it there may be a few bits I want so please PM me.

Cheers

 

[colesy]

I’ll have a 131k mile 172 cup for sale in 4-6 weeks if that’ll be of interest? Could be sooner if needed.

 

[norstar]

Thanks for the advice so far, totally agree about these cars being keepers, i just can't own a modern car.

What would be the best move from here?

I could limp it round the corner to a local garage, the temp gauge hasn't shown anything alarming, but i suppose the head and block might part a little as it heat cycles.

I could ask them to bore scope, i assume oil on the pistons/plugs is worn rings (no surprise given the mileage) and coolant is a failed head gasket?

Sorry, i don't have much knowledge of these engines.

I managed to plug rs tuner in while the EML was flashing - no codes unfortunately - the injectors were brand new today, so i guess the EML is a pre cat lambda warning?

 

[norstar]

I’ll have a 131k mile 172 cup for sale in 4-6 weeks if that’ll be of interest? Could be sooner if needed.

Always open to options, do you have a rough spec - i just need something to get me to year end.

 

[Ol’ Tarby]

Thanks for the advice so far, totally agree about these cars being keepers, i just can't own a modern car.

What would be the best move from here?

I could limp it round the corner to a local garage, the temp gauge hasn't shown anything alarming, but i suppose the head and block might part a little as it heat cycles.

I could ask them to bore scope, i assume oil on the pistons/plugs is worn rings (no surprise given the mileage) and coolant is a failed head gasket?

Sorry, i don't have much knowledge of these engines.

I managed to plug rs tuner in while the EML was flashing - no codes unfortunately - the injectors were brand new today, so i guess the EML is a pre cat lambda warning?

Flashing EML is a misfire I believe. In most instances I've seen on here, caused by injectors

 

[Brigsy]

Thank you, i have just been out and found a puddle of water in the driver side footwell.

Would a leaking heater matrix cause poor/lumpy running?

Heater leak wont cause lumpy running but will explain coolant loss.

What injectors have you fitted, oem or aftermarket? Might be a plug or lead? Compression test too. Id prob avoid the local garage unless very good, too many are crap at diagnosing anything.

 

[norstar]

Magnetti IWP 042.

Injectors were my first thought, i have seen the issue before and this has been the easy remedy.

Local garage did my belts/bilstein setup and gearbox - thorough and expensive - the better they are the more angry they are.

It would seem to be fuel or spark related - apply too much throttle and the power fades and EML flashes.

It can be nursed by running in a lower gear than usual, but it's not right.


Plugs and HT leads need inspecting.

6 months ago my coolant bottle popped, cold car into hot garage, but now i'm thinking this was the pistons pressurising the cooling circuit..

If it's the end, i had an amazing 15 years, really special cars.

 

[norstar]

Flashing EML is a misfire I believe. In most instances I've seen on here, caused by injectors

Yes, i had really hoped new injectors would sort it. 196K wasn't a bad run on a cheap french run around - my only mistake was the BTB exhaust that made me deaf.

 

[andybond]

Have you swapped out the o2 sensor?

 

[norstar]

Have you swapped out the o2 sensor?

No, it's worth a try, i have one in the boot.

Any other sensors that cause a flashing EML?

Thanks for the suggestion

 

[norstar]

I can plug the rs tuner in and view the lambda sensors, i think?

Any idea on idle values that are healthy?

 

[andybond]

I can plug the rs tuner in and view the lambda sensors, i think?

Any idea on idle values that are healthy?

I think my o2 sensor is at the end of its life and it seems to read but very slowly!
I cant be more accurate with that at the minute. I have a brand spanking new one but not had the inclination to fit ( or time! ) but Ill update as and when I do!

 

[norstar]

I will give it a go tomorrow, it's only another £50 in the parts cannon.

I would be at peace with it if i could get it to the magic 200K.

I thought a Fiesta ST 1.5 might be a good replacement, any other ideas, i need something with personality that seats 3.

A mini with a GSXR engine might be a bit much for a daily.

 

[andybond]

I will give it a go tomorrow, it's only another £50 in the parts cannon.

I would be at peace with it if i could get it to the magic 200K.

I thought a Fiesta ST 1.5 might be a good replacement, any other ideas, i need something with personality that seats 3.

A mini with a GSXR engine might be a bit much for a daily.

Where abouts are you in the UK?

 

[norstar]

I'm in Newport, South Wales.

Work in Monmouth, near the English border.

 

[andybond]

I'm in Newport, South Wales.

Work in Monmouth, near the English border.

I cant really pop by with my spanking new sensor for you to test then

 

[norstar]

It's Ok, i have a new Bosch item, i was so suspicious of french build quality, i started hoarding parts - just in case.

The car subverted expectations and just kept going and going - fortunately i must have bought a monday morning car, the engine was like a honey badger.

 

[Paulie031]

Hi Norstar if it's any help I used a guy in Cardiff a few years ago to change my cambelt on my 172, he done his apprenticeship on these cars I believe. Grange service station is the name and if I remember rightly his name is Phil, might be worth a message/phone call 🙂

 

[norstar]

Hey Paulie, thank you, sounds like just the man to help.

 

[16v_paddy]

If it's not rotten then fixing it is deffo your best course of action, especially as it's a Cup, it's worth saving
@RichValver is in south Wales & knows a few Clio people in your neck of the woods so might be able to point you in the right direction

 

[Louis]

I've never heard of a hg going on these.

 

[norstar]

If it's not rotten then fixing it is deffo your best course of action, especially as it's a Cup, it's worth saving
@RichValver is in south Wales & knows a few Clio people in your neck of the woods so might be able to point you in the right direction

I would appreciate any advice, i would like to keep it on the road.

If it is the head gasket, any thoughts on a head rebuild cost?

The issue is, once it's open probably best to go to town and have a full bottom end rebuild.

I can't imagine the bores and rings are in good condition after 196K.

I have been looking at a Fiesta ST 1.5, i think i would rather spend 15k on the Clio, on a new lump on bodies.

I just can't handle things that bing and bong and tell you off for every wrong move.

The amount of times i have come back from a drive the clio sweating saying "it's going to kill me", but its good to feel alive, i just don't think a modern car will work for me, i like the clios flawed rabid nature.

 

[norstar]

I've never heard of a hg going on these.

I hope i'm wrong, i will get a second opinion from another garage.

 

[16v_paddy]

Compression test would be the next thing I'd do as you won't get anything more definitive than that.

As for the cost of a rebuild (I've just done one on my Cup) it's a case of how long is a piece of string with the "while you're in there" bits 🤣

I got lucky with my cylinder head, it cost £180 at a local engine machining place to have it checked, cleaned, valves re-lapped in, tiniest bit of skimming purely to clean up the surface and new stem seals.
Valve guides is where it can start to get expensive if they're needed - my guy said it'd be somewhere between £10 & £20 +vat per guide supplied & fitted, luckily mine were all good so I didn't need to do them.

As for the rest of the parts just for the cylinder head, have a look at PMS' site & start adding stuff up https://www.pure-motorsport.co.uk/clio-2-ph2-172/engine.html?c2c_engine=262&p=3

I'd also strongly suggest considering this option https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/22616579...GVVHJM&hash=item34a8883bf3:g:mIsAAOSwe4lhln8u
I know it's expensive, I just wish I had the money at the time to do this when my engine was knackered but I didn't so had to bit & bob over 2 years to buy the parts as & when I could afford them, plus I got lucky with some monumental bargains and did a lot of the work myself. I'm still about £3.5k deep into it without going down the route of upgraded cams & injectors etc so the price on the ebay engine is quite reasonable imo, especially when you consider that I didn't fit new tappets, rocker arms, valve guides or new valves as those alone are well over a grand

 

[norstar]

I couldn't see the link - but i found a nightingale engine (is this your link?)

All things considered, it's probably the best option. Thank you.

 

[16v_paddy]

I couldn't see the link - but i found a nightingale engine (is this your link?)

All things considered, it's probably the best option. Thank you.

Yes the ebay link is for Nightingale's

 

[norstar]

Ok, so with different cams/labour to refit it's looking like a 5K project.

I will get the compression test done and have a think, a prebuilt engine looks like money well spent.

I have a recently rebuilt gearbox.

It might just be as well to run standard cams and have the map adjusted.